[startover22]

There have been 200 posts, what are you waiting for???

LMAO!

[mountain_man]

Agreed. But they are not explained by any other methods as well. Man is a complicated animal.

We agreed on something:D

[ordinaryguy]

Ordinary guy, I am aware that right now we are loosely correlating, but that's how science works. Newton loosely correlated the laws of motion when he first started. I see no barrier in the future to having a better machine with more correlation, until we are at a point where we can read thoughts and feelings as accurately as we can measure a heartbeat.

I took a bit of liberty with your previous post in citing it as an example of scientism. But here you do seem to reinforce my inference that you think the scientific method is the right tool for every job. So let me ask you straight up: Do you believe (hold dear and love) that the scientific method is adequate to provide a satisfactory (to you, at least) explanation for every phenomenon whatsoever? Do you see any inherent limitation on the kind of phenomena that can be examined and explained by its use? It does seem to require a human being to conceptualize the problem as a theoretical model, operationalize the model to formulate a testable hypothesis, design an experiment to test it, and interpret the resulting observations and measurements to construct a coherent explanation story. Is this (the human mind) a significant limitation? What it really comes down to, I suppose, is whether there is anything whatsoever beyond the reach of the rigorous application of logic, experiment and observation by the rational human intellect. The only limitation you have alluded to so far is the precision of measurement technology. Is that the only one there is, in your view?

[shatteredsoul]

Karma exists, it cannot be determined where it comes from. Somehow what we put out in the world, comes back to us. That energy can't be seen or detected, but it is there, the universe somehow is aware of it, and it is sent back the same way. Scientists cannot disprove it, just as they cannot disprove there is a "God".
The ability to have emotions and feelings can be detected and monitored, we can't be sure where it originates from, or why we have them.
Intuition has saved lives and prevented people from putting themselves in danger that they have never experienced before.
Just from a personal experience with de ja vu, knowing that a bridge and heavily wooded park is up around the corner, on a certain street, when you have never even visited the state in your lifetime, cannot be explained, it just is. That is from when I was a child.
Science was created by man, and therefore has flaws like all of us and it isn't absolute.
Life is a mystery, no one can explain it and that is why we are all given our own perspectives.
Ordinary guy hit the nail on the head. So, is then the precision of measurement technology the only view that holds true for you?

[firmbeliever]

I have put in quotations I have taken from different sites by different authors (links are below) which shows my viewpoint clearly and some reasons I believe in a Creator.

http://saif_w.tripod.com/curious/Mis..._or_chance.htm
“The Macro/Micro patterns
If we look at the universe at large we find that it is composed of vast areas of empty space and also other areas containing shapeless matter in the form of hot gases, dark matter and formed stars. These stars group together to form galaxies. Our galaxy, 'The Milky Way' has within it no less than 100 billion individual stars. Our star, the sun, has nine planets in orbit around it. Most of these planets have a number of moons again in orbit. The basic force that governs the movement of all these bodies is gravity. The moons rotate around their planets, which all rotate around the mother star, which in our case is the sun. Similarly, all these stars revolve round the centre of gravity of the galaxy.

Galaxies group together to form clusters of galaxies and once again individual galaxies revolve round the centre of gravity of the cluster. Clusters group together to form super-clusters, and these obey the same laws. These are the largest units in the universe as we know it today.
However, and if we proceed in the opposite direction, we notice that the similarity is truly remarkable. If we look at the other end of the scale and examine the atom which is the smallest form of substance able to exist in a chemical reaction, we find that it is composed of electrons revolving round a nucleus, in the same way as stars revolve round the centre of gravity of their galaxies.”
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http://saif_w.tripod.com/curious/evo...tml#xperiament

“We know that mirrors and burning lenses date back as far as to the age of written records and Egyptian ophthalmologic recipes go back at least to Papyrus Ebers, copied before 1500 from considerable older sources. We find advanced theories of visual processes and of light in the oldest extent Greek philosophical works. Thus vision, mankind's “most noble sense” has been the subject of every notable philosopher and practitioner of medicine since ancient times. The Atomists had their theories of vision and so did Plato. For the former, and they were by no means unanimous on it, vision required a material effluence to be conveyed from the visible object to the eye.”
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I cannot comprehend the fact that some people believe that the above mentioned macro.micro patterns exist by chance.

Even if science can explain what happens when we look at something, I believe this shows the chemical reaction in our body, but science cannot explain to me how this sense of seeing came about (not just humans, but any animal (as evolutionists believe everything evolved).

I do not believe the universe to be infinite,
It had a beginning and it will have an end.

I respect an atheists view to be his own choice,but I cannot even imagine myself drawing that conclusion as the “science can explain all” theory does not make sense to me.

I read science and understand many things from what scientists are trying to discover by studying the universe and the living things on earth.
I cannot seem to come to the conclusion that the trees around us came about by chance and in that chance they became an organism which works within itself by producing its own food and taking up water from underground etc(I know science helps explain the process of how this works).
I cannot even conclude that for example a giraffe eats from the tops of trees because it elongated its neck to reach the part of the plant others cannot reach OR that the plant grew thorns below a certain level to protect itself from predators. But I do believe and can conclude that a certain tree was made"(by a Creator) in such a way to facilitate certain animals to easily feed on it, in turn have its seeds dispersed to various different spots…etc

I know this argument has been presented before, but I just need those who support the evolution theory or science to know that I do believe in science, but I believe that science helps explain God's creations in order for us to marvel at them.
I have not included any of religious texts which I believe in(and shows that what some scientists are proving today has already been mentioned in the Quran) as it maybe considered inappropriate for this thread.

As I said I state my opinion not to argue but to share my thoughts.
I thank you all for sharing yours and proving to me that what I believed was true all along and reading up all the posts has made me stronger in my faith and belief.:)

[NeedKarma]

Science was created by man, and therefore has flaws like all of us and it isn't absolute.

So is the bible and the koran and all other religious texts. We all choose our reality I guess.

[BMI]

Although many beleivers suscribe to the notion that the Bible was written through man by God. If untampered with than it would be absolute, we will never really know that.

[BMI]

Sorry, the Bible and other religious texts.

[mountain_man]

So is the bible and the koran and all other religious texts. We all choose our reality I guess.

You know I couldn't live with myself if I didn't say...

The Bible is indeed true and accurate and inspired by God.

And the best selling book of all time and full of incredible wisdom on every page.

[BMI]

To further that point, you don't need to believe in God to agree with what He is saying. Well He if you do believe and it (the Bible or other religious texts if you don't).

[firmbeliever]

So is the bible and the koran and all other religious texts. We all choose our reality I guess.

This may be your view, but I believe the original Bible would not have had flaws, and the Quran in its Arabic form has no flaws (not to say that all believe the book to be without flaws), in the transliteration some meaings may have been changed/lost.

[Synnen]

Soooo... the Bible is absolutely right, and everything in it should be followed, since it's the Voice of God speaking through the pages? Am I understanding correctly what you are saying here?

[BMI]

You are to understand that it is from God(if a beleiver) and to do your best to live your life in accordance with what it says. What facinates me is that if you were to actually try hard to follow it you would be amazed at how you feel. I mean if someone followed the Bible to an exact T or even close you all would think he/she was a wonderful person no?

I wonder what gets people so hung up on the notion of MUST follow the rules. The golden rule is do unto others as you would have done to you, I really don't think you need to believe inanything to agree with that.

[mountain_man]

Soooo....the Bible is absolutely right, and everything in it should be followed, since it's the Voice of God speaking through the pages? Am I understanding correctly what you are saying here?

Yes that is what I believe. Now I feel a set-up in here so let me explain your questions to the best of my ability.

[excon]

I mean if someone followed the Bible to an exact T or even close you all would think he/she was a wonderful person no?

Hello again, BMI:

No!

Don't people discriminate against gays because the Bible says something about men lying down with men?

That's not wonderful at all. Actually, it sucks!!

excon

[mountain_man]

Hello again, BMI:

No!

Don't people discriminate against gays because the Bible says something about men lying down with men?

That's not wonderful at all. Actually, it sucks!!!

excon

Yes but the bible says more and more clearly that we should not judge lest we be judged and of course the two greatest commandments 1) Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself

[NeedKarma]

I mean if someone followed the Bible to an exact T or even close you all would think he/she was a wonderful person no?.

Don't need the bible for that. You don't need a book to tell you not to murder or commit adultery. My wife cuts her hair and wears pants, all such women in the world would be called apostates under your idea.

[BMI]

Hi ex-con,

That's neither here nor there, whether gays are dicriminated against because of the Bible, some do others don't. I mean I am Italianand my friends discriminate against gays all the time, well that's to saythey do not like it and they makefun of gays, they do not do it because of the BIble I can tell you that.

Its just that women are just so much prettier:)

[NeedKarma]

The golden rule is do unto others as you would have done to you, i really don't think you need to beleive inanything to agree with that.

We find commomn ground! The golden rule indeed transcends all religions. At least you can see the light at the end of the tunnel - you don't need to follow strict rules from a 2000 year old book.

[BMI]

HI NK,

You may not need the Bible for that but then again it is 2007. The Bible taught that way back ago, and it has lasted through the ages, what makes sense B.C makes just as much sense as it does in 2007. Thanks for that post, just another marvel of the Bible, it stands through time, whatelse does that?

Science books, medical books and the like all change, this never does.