[tickle]

[QUOTE=Tj3;1847722

Why don't you start by looking at a comparison fo the Dead Sea scrolls to what we have today.



Ho hum - so you read one line and missed everything else. Pretty myopic vision I'd say - have you seen an optometrist? :p



.[/QUOTE]

That was a really intelligent comment, Tj, kind of immature at best... seen an optometrist ?

As for dead sea scrolls, they are undeciperable, in pieces, the arabs that found them didn't know what they had so they were abused for quite a while until turning them over to the authorities. I am seeing them tomorrow, they are being displayed at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Wonderful works of art but who can read them to actually know what they contain, Tj ? Of course the Jews lauded the discovery, but Jesus wasn't Jewish.

Tick

[Tj3]

That was a really intelligent comment, Tj, kind of immature at best... seen an optometrist ?

Well, if someone is going to look at a whole page and ignore everything but one line, I've got to question their attention to detail, either eyesight or deliberately ignoring the rest of the information.

As for dead sea scrolls, they are undeciperable, in pieces, the arabs that found them didn't know what they had so they were abused for quite a while until turning them over to the authorities. I am seeing them tomorrow, they are being displayed at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Wonderful works of art but who can read them to actually know what they contain, Tj ? Of course the Jews lauded the discovery, but Jesus wasn't Jewish.
Tick

Take the time to check around - there are a number of translations of the scrolls available - I am looking at one here at my desk. There is technology today which can pick out that which might otherwise not be visible on the manscripts.

You'd be amazed.

[N0help4u]

Myopic? Maybe that is why the question of the topic here is being evaded?

What is the interpretation of the verses that say not all people are going to heaven if you believe the Bible and say everybody is going to heaven?

[Tj3]

Myopic? maybe that is why the question of the topic here is being evaded?

What is the interpretation of the verses that say not all people are going to heaven if you believe the Bible and say everybody is going to heaven?

I think you have a point. Let me post my question back up here again and see if WG or anyone else has the courage to respond:

To WG or anyone else who thinks all paths lead to God:

I'd be interested in hearing how you apply your own personal interpretation to these verses to make them say that there are many ways to be saved other than Jesus.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
NKJV

Acts 4:12
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
NKJV

[tickle]

Tj, there are so many pieces missing in the scrolls, no one knows what they refer to.

Tick

[Tj3]

Tj, there are so many pieces missing in the scrolls, no one knows what they refer to.

tick

You really need to check out your facts.

[N0help4u]

Tj, there are so many pieces missing in the scrolls, no one knows what they refer to.

tick

That doesn't help answer what you believe the interpretation about not all people being saved is to justify your belief that they are.

[tickle]

That doesn't help answer what you believe the interpretation about not all people being saved is to justify your belief that they are.

That wasn't my issue.

Tick

[N0help4u]

IT IS the issue of the OP's post.

It would be nice if you all want to discuss the origins of the Bible and its history to start a new post.

[Alty]

Do all paths eventually lead to God? That is the original question. Right?

I don't think that I have to reaffirm what I believe, all of you know very well that I'm a Deist.

Having said that, you Christians seem to think that the only way to God is through the bible. I disagree.

I don't believe that the bible is the word of God, yet I do believe in God. I don't believe in "organized" religion, in one mans opinion about a man written book, but I do believe in God.

So, you decide. According to your "Book of God", I'm going to hell. I guess in the end, we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

I think some of you may be surprised.

Peace out.

[N0help4u]

Do all paths eventually lead to God? That is the original question. Right?

I don't think that I have to reaffirm what I believe, all of you know very well that I'm a Deist.

Having said that, you Christians seem to think that the only way to God is through the bible. I disagree.

I don't believe that the bible is the word of God, yet I do believe in God. I don't believe in "organized" religion, in one mans opinion about a man written book, but I do believe in God.

So, you decide. According to your "Book of God", I'm going to hell. I guess in the end, we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

I think some of you may be surprised.

Peace out.

But you also don't claim you are any religion, Christian or even believe the Bible.

The question is why do Christians believe that anybody goes to heaven and they believe what they want out of the Bible but don't believe it when the Bible has many verses to the contrary. Either they believe the Bible or they don't as Christians.

The Christians who are making the claim seem to be side tracking onto another topic and avoiding the question.

I do believe that many Christians will be surprised as you say.
Matt 7 even says that.

[DrJ]

With all due respect, Tj3, you are side-stepping every issue here.

You seem to have a very low view of God.

I have a very low view of men. Man is flawed. We already know this.

You are assuming then that God intervened in the world as He did in the OT, then with His Son in the NT, then no more since the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ... except to personally piece together the Bible centuries later.

How can you, as a Christian, be so sure of this? The Bible tells you NOTHING about what the Bible is intended to be or how the Bible was intended to be put together. And just to bring this up now, as you argued below, yes... books of the Bible mention other authors of other books... but this IN NO WAY says ANYTHING about how the Bible should be put together! That is just absurd.

Ho hum - so you read one line and missed everything else. Pretty myopic vision I'd say - have you seen an optometrist? :p

I scanned it looking for relevant information pertaining to the discussion at hand... namely: dates. And that is what I had found. And I don't need an optometrist for once I was blind, but now I see.

Actually, there are many books in the Bible identified by other books in the Bible as scripture, for example the writings of Paul are scripture:

2 Peter 3:14-17
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
NKJV

Again, I understand that this person mentioned that person and his writings. But this says nothing about the Bible instructing WHOEVER on how to construct the pages of the Bible. It doesn't say that the Bible will include: Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I & II Corinthians, etc... (thats all the order I could remember off the top of my head).

You really need to take more time at doing your research before coming on here making unvalidated claims (and I have yet to see you validate a single claim).

I don't believe I am making any claims other than stating the obvious and challenging what so many Christians have blindly believed for years. You keep speaking of this "evidence" to prove everything but you have yet to supply any... other than a biased piece written by someone with an opinion. That's hardly evidence.



The problem that we will inevitably run into is the same that occurs here over and over again. You, like so many religious types, refuse to really look at these kinds of questions... be it due to pompousness or fear that what you have blindly believed for so long could be faltered.

Therefore, your responses tend to brush off the question rather than tackling it head on... throwing religious dogma around to attempt to defuse the question... or using the same reference which is being disputed as your "proof".

You have no idea what I believe but you continue to attack my beliefs since I am the one answering the questions.

As for what this all has to do with the OP... the translation, interpretation, and understanding of the Bible is directly related to what the Christian knows about what path or paths can/will/do lead to God. And the problem is just that.

Anyway, I have to bow out for today... and the weekend. Tj3, it is a pleasure to discuss with you... I hope you don't dismiss this as anything less.

To the rest of you, happy hunting!

[Wondergirl]

As Nohelp4u said, why don't you address the verses that I posted earlier rather than keep going down this rathole with inordinate focus on one man.

Why don't you answer the question I asked long ago in this thread, and you have successful avoided?

[N0help4u]

Can you repeat it so we don't have to reread through 20 pages to figure out which question you are referring to?

[Wondergirl]

Ho hum - so you read one line and missed everything else. Pretty myopic vision I'd say - have you seen an optometrist?

Ah, the ad hominems begin.

[N0help4u]

This isn't going anywhere.
The question was what do you do with all the verses in the Bible that say not all go to heaven?
How do you interpret them or do you just pretend they aren't in there or what?

If you want to repeat your question we can answer that too, but I am not rereading 20 pages to figure out what it was.

[Tj3]

With all due respect, Tj3, you are side-stepping every issue here.

Actually, you are hijacking the thread.

You are assuming then that God intervened in the world as He did in the OT, then with His Son in the NT, then no more since the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ... except to personally piece together the Bible centuries later.

You haven't been reading what I said, have you. I said nothing about the Bible being stitched together centuries later, That is what I argued against.

I scanned it looking for relevant information pertaining to the discussion at hand... namely: dates. And that is what I had found. And I don't need an optometrist for once I was blind, but now I see.

Then you'd better look again.

Again, I understand that this person mentioned that person and his writings. But this says nothing about the Bible instructing WHOEVER on how to construct the pages of the Bible. It doesn't say that the Bible will include: Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I & II Corinthians, etc... (thats all the order I could remember off the top of my head).

I said that it was an example, so yes it does tell us many of the books, and we have a great deal more evidence in the early church writings that they already knew what composed the Bible by the end of the 1st century.

You keep speaking of this "evidence" to prove everything but you have yet to supply any...

I supply some evidence and you just ignore and deny.

You have no idea what I believe but you continue to attack my beliefs since I am the one answering the questions.

I am not attacking your beliefs so much as your false claims, lack of validation, refusal to provide any validation and your refusal to look at anything which disagrees with what you want to believe.

[Tj3]

Ah, the ad hominems begin.

I note that you omitted the smiley face - why was that I wonder.

[N0help4u]

Yep this thread has been hijacked and nobody wants to answer the original question.

[Tj3]

Why don't you answer the question I asked long ago in this thread, and you have successful avoided?

Yes, what was it?

I have a life outside of here, and most of my day has been working at the computer putting together a very lengthy proposal, so if you posted something 20 pages back, I probably did miss it.