[MoonlitWaves]

I would like to ask my fellow believers their belief and understanding on a few things, but mostly about the time in which we will all stand before God to be judged. I have been confused about a few things regarding the day of judgement for sometime now. First let me say a few things so you will know where I am.

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit." There are other verses that also speak of no condemnation for those who are saved in, Isaiah 50:9, Luke 6:37, John 3:18, John 5:24, Romans 8:34.
All right, now, we know that we will not be condemned to hell if we are saved, but condemning someone doesn't always mean an eternal fate, right? It can also mean condemning that which is unfavorable or strongly disapproved of, like sin. So in accordance with these verses is it safe for me to say that those of us who are saved will not be condemned for our sins? And I don't just mean by eternity in hell. I mean by it being brought up by God period.

Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." In this verse I know God is referring to Isreal's transgressions. I definitely do not want to misinterpret this verse so I ask you what you think. Like I said, I know that God is saying He will forget Isreal's transgression in this verse, but can we also take from this verse that He will also forget our sins as well? This is of course assuming repentance and forgiveness has been given us.

Philippians 3:13 &14 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, {14} "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
Now, I know this verse is no proof that God forgets our wrong doings, but Paul says that he puts his past behind him and focuses on the future. So I ask you, wouldn't God do the same? After forgiving us of our sins wouldn't it be put behind/forgotten by God?
When Jesus died, He paid the price for our sins. Which means that if we are saved we do not have to pay the price for the sins we committed. If we are forgiven then surely they would be forgotten, right? Why would God forgive us only to bring it back up during our judgement. I don't think He will.

So, if this is my belief then why am I asking you all if God forgets our transgressions after forgiving? Here is where I get confused...

2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
I want to state some things I read in my Bible commentary on this verse. The MacArthur Bible Commentary BY: John MacArthur, pages 1628 &1629.. . "the realization that every Christian is inevitably and ultimately accountable to Him." (Referring to the words in this verse, the things done in the body) "Actions which happened during the believer's time of earthly ministry. This does not include sins, since their judgement took place at the cross (Eph. 1:7). Paul was refering to all those activities believers do during their lifetimes, which relate to their eternal reward and praise from God." (Referring to the words in this verse, whether good or bad) "These Greek terms do not refer to moral good and moral evil. Matters of sin have been completely dealt with by the death of the Savior. Rather Paul was comparing worthwhile, eternally valuable activities with usless ones."
I understand this... Paul was not saying we will be judged upon sin, but upon worthwhile (good) and useless (bad) things we have done. So I ask... if what we did was useless then why would God even bring it up? What, in God's eyes that is bad, is not a sin? If everything that is considered bad in God's eyes is a sin, and our sins are forgotten, then what bad could we possibly be judged upon? Am I making sense?

So I ask you these questions... Do we all pretty much agree that once God forgives us of our sins they are forgotten, and will not be brought back up upon our judgement? What is your understanding regarding our judgement?
Maybe if I hear your understanding and beliefs about judgement day I can better understand what is to be expected.

Thanks, Tara:p ;)

[N0help4u]

The Bible also says to not use God's grace as a license to sin. When we do sin we need to use that as a lesson to grow closer to God and further from the flesh. God knows the desires of our heart and as the Bible says we see dimly now but when we face eternity this world will grow dim and we will see things in a new light. It won't be a knit picked remember when you
smacked your sister when you were 10 or anything like that. It will probably be more like they say about a persons whole life flashing before you in an instant.

[MoonlitWaves]

The Bible also says to not use God's grace as a license to sin. When we do sin we need to use that as a lesson to grow closer to God and further from the flesh. God knows the desires of our heart and as the Bible says we see dimly now but when we face eternity this world will grow dim and we will see things in a new light. It won't be a knit picked remember when you
smacked your sister when you were 10 or anything like that. It will probably be more like they say about a persons whole life flashing before you in an instant.

I completely agree, so if I sounded like I was asking because I want to feel okay about the outcome of my sins, I didn't mean it that way. I ask because no one wants to have their wrong doings thrown back in their face, especially those we are sorry for, truly feel guilty about, and try our hardest not to do again. I just wanted to see if it was agreed by others that our sins are forgotten when forgiven. If they are, then what bad are we judged upon? Thinking about judgement day use to terrify me when I was younger. It was my thought, at that time, that God was going to judge me on every bad thing I did, and I could have cried at the thought of it. Now that I am older and a little more knowledgeable I see that this is not so, but I am still a little confused because of what Peter wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:10. Just looking for other people's beliefs and understanding on what will happen to help clarify what Peter wrote. Basically this... If our sins are forgotten when forgiven, then what bad is remembered that we will be judged for? I think I know, but then that verse makes me doubt. Just looking for someone who may can clarify, help me to better understand.

[Wondergirl]

Maybe it would be your opportunity to review your life -- the good you did as well as the bad or useless -- not to be smacked in the face with the bad stuff, but to learn from those things and to figure out what the better way would have been.

God, like my mom, could question me, "I took a video of you when you were hiding your little brother's favorite truck. Let's watch the video and think about how you are feeling and how he felt when he couldn't find his truck." Then, after watching the video, "Now let's talk about what you could have done differently and how both you and your brother would have felt."

I believe the afterlife will be a learning process for us, giving us time and space to first look at and assess ourselves honestly and then to go forward to do better after having learned better.

[inthebox]

Just my take and I am no theologian.

1 john:
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Scofield Bible note on 1 cor 3:14
Salvation is a free gift, a present possession [ rom 6:23, Eph 2:8-9]
Rewards are earned by works, a future attainment to be given at the rapture
[luke 19:17][2 tim 4:8]

But from Rom 8 - it isn't our self effort that brings rewards, it is relying on the spirit within to do good works [ eph 2: 10 , gal 5: 22-24]


From CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" on charity:

"On the whole, God's love for us is a much safer subject to think about than our love for Him. Nobody can always have devout feelings: and even if we could, feelings are not what God principally cares about. Christian Love, either towards God or towards man, is an affair of the will. If we are trying to do His will we are obeying the commandment, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God.' He will give us feelings of love if He pleases. We cannot create them for ourselves, and we must not demand them as a right. But the great thing to remember is that, though our feelings come and go, His love for us does not. It is not wearied by our sins, or our indifference; and, therefore, it is quite relentless in its determination that we shall be cured of those sins, at whatever cost to us, at whatever cost to Him."



Grace and Peace

[savedsinner7]

Let me take each verse and respond:
Romans 8:1
This is telling us that we are nut under any condemnation from God for our forgiven sins, nor are we to accept the condemnation of Satan and his cohorts. Satan will come and whisper in our ears that we are failures and unloved and worthless, but we are to stand strong in the promise of the LORD that our sins are forgiven and remembered no more.

Isaiah 43:25
Yes this refers to Israel, but also to us. When we confess our sin, we are completely forgiven. 1 John 1:9 (New King James Version)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Philippians 3:13-14 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Reaching for those things ahead. To me this is the promise of my rewards in heaven for obedience. IF I obey, and IF I do the work that Jesus calls me to do. Rewards are conditional.

2 Corinthians 5:10
This is speaking to both the Judgments and Rewards. Jesus is a rewarder of those who do right.BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: reward What we do is not useless unless it is done in our own strength. We are called to Matthew 11:29
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
If we take the yoke of Jesus and allow ourselves to be led by the LORD, we will not strive to be Christians, but the Holy Spirit will work in usPhilippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Philippians 1:5-7 (in Context) Philippians 1 (Whole Chapter)
Philippians 2:13
For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

[savedsinner7]

We are judged not only for our sins but also for the good we do. Is the good we do because Jesus asked us, or because we did our will? These are the things He looks at.

I completely agree, so if I sounded like I was asking because I want to feel okay about the outcome of my sins, I didn't mean it that way. I ask because no one wants to have their wrong doings thrown back in their face, especially those we are sorry for, truly feel guilty about, and try our hardest not to do again. I just wanted to see if it was agreed by others that our sins are forgotten when forgiven. If they are, then what bad are we judged upon? Thinking about judgement day use to terrify me when I was younger. It was my thought, at that time, that God was going to judge me on every bad thing I did, and I could have cried at the thought of it. Now that I am older and a little more knowledgable I see that this is not so, but I am still a little confused because of what Peter wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:10. Just looking for other people's beliefs and understanding on what will happen to help clarify what Peter wrote. Basically this...If our sins are forgotten when forgiven, then what bad is remembered that we will be judged for? I think I know, but then that verse makes me doubt. Just looking for someone who may can clarify, help me to better understand.

[deist]

Most dispensational fundamentalist christians believe there will be at least three judgments; the judgment seat of Christ (Rom. 14: 10), where christians will be judged on their works; the judgment of the nations (Matt. 25: 31-46), where the nations will be judged worthy or unworthy of entering the millennium based on how they treated Israel; & the Great White throne judgment (Rev. 20: 11-15), where the unsaved will be judged.

[Choux]

It is my experience that many Born Again Christians(of which I was one)think that when they are born again, that that is the end of their life's and Christian journey. I have seen many many Christians relive over and over and over the emotional catharsis of being forgiven. Dwell on it to the exclusion of starting to grow in Christ and become a mature Christian.

If one is growing in Christ, one does not need to focus on judgement day, sins, hell... one in active in positive growth, the focus is forward as it should be. Walking with Christ learning spiritual qualities one must nurture, and eventually, taking a positive place in God's Kingdom whatever one's strengths are and whatever one feels one is called to be!

Best wishes,

[shygrneyzs]

Any born again believer ought to know that once "born again" is not the end of their Christian journey. The journey has just begun in a new way, call it enlightened if you will. But never done until the last breath.

[Tj3]

This is a good question, and one which I think is on the minds of many people. Let me address a few points/questions which are raised in each of the verses and then I would like to add some comments at the end.

Romans 8:1

Let's also look at Romans 8:2, which I believe brings some clarity to the context:

Rom 8:2-5
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
NKJV

I believe that this passage is a reflection of what Paul was teaching in Gal 3:19-25. Many people depend upon the law and the keeping of the law (i.e. doing good works) for their salvation, but those who do are lost because Romans 3:23 tells us that they have failed. That law, the law of works is intended to show us that we cannot be saved that way and that its purpose is to point us to Christ, through whom, when we are saved, we receive the indwelling of the Spirit, and we receive life, and can live according to the intent of the law.

Gal 5:17-19
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
NKJV

Therefore, those who try to live by the law are already condemned under the law, but we who are saved, are not condemned by the law because we are no longer under the law, but we are led by the Spirit.

Isaiah 43:25 / Phil 3

Though this is regarding Israel, there is much in scripture which speaks of Israel which can also be applied, in a prophetic sense, to believers, since we see God's character revealed in how He deals with and has dealt with Israel. I do believe that in fact God does "forget" our sins and they will be remembered no more - we have that promise in the NT also:

Heb 10:16-18
16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
NKJV

In reality, God does not "forget" in the sense that He loses the memory, but rather He chooses to forget because when He looks at us after we have been saved, He does not see our sin, but He see the righteousness of Christ which has been imputed to us (Rom 4:22-25). It is His righteousness, not ours.

Now to the key point - why are our deeds brought back up if they are forgotten? Every person is brought before the judgment seat. For those who are unsaved, I believe that it is clear why their deed are judged:

Jude 15
15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
NKJV

As indicated previously, there are only two ways to get to heaven - be perfect and never sin and be saved under the law, or be saved through receiving Christ as Saviour and through His righteousness. The first approach is a non-starter. Only one man has even led a perfect sinless life and that is Christ, therefore for those who choose to live without Christ, they are judged under the law, by the deeds that they have done. We know their fate.

For those who are saved, we know what our fate will be, but the deeds still matter. The sins are all covered so, for us, it is not our sins that will be judged - they have all been washed, but rather it is those deed done for him. Throughout scripture we find that those who are saved receive crowns for different things:

Crown of Rejoicing: 2 Tim 4:8
Crown of Life: James 1:12
Crown of Glory: 1 Pet 5:4
Crown of Life: Rev 2:10

There may be others. But the glory all belongs to Him, and from what I read in scripture, I believe that the end result, after the judgement will be that we will take these crowns and cast them at the feet of Him who deserves the glory:

Rev 4:9-11
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

11 "You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created."
NKJV

So the judgement of the deeds of those who are saved, I believe will be a judgement of what we have done for Him, not a remembrance of the sins which were covered by blood of Christ.

[MoonlitWaves]

This is a good question, and one which I think is on the minds of many people. Let me address a few points/questions which are raised in each of the verses and then I would like to add some comments at the end.

Romans 8:1

Let's also look at Romans 8:2, which I believe brings some clarity to the context:

Rom 8:2-5
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
NKJV

I believe that this passage is a reflection of what Paul was teaching in Gal 3:19-25. Many people depend upon the law and the keeping of the law (i.e. doing good works) for their salvation, but those who do are lost because Romans 3:23 tells us that they have failed. That law, the law of works is intended to show us that we cannot be saved that way and that its purpose is to point us to Christ, through whom, when we are saved, we receive the indwelling of the Spirit, and we receive life, and can live according to the intent of the law.

Gal 5:17-19
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
NKJV

Therefore, those who try to live by the law are already condemned under the law, but we who are saved, are not condemned by the law because we are no longer under the law, but we are led by the Spirit.

Isaiah 43:25 / Phil 3

Though this is regarding Israel, there is much in scripture which speaks of Israel which can also be applied, in a prophetic sense, to believers, since we see God's character revealed in how He deals with and has dealt with Israel. I do believe that in fact God does "forget" our sins and they will be remembered no more - we have that promise in the NT also:

Heb 10:16-18
16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
NKJV

In reality, God does not "forget" in the sense that He loses the memory, but rather He chooses to forget because when He looks at us after we have been saved, He does not see our sin, but He see the righteousness of Christ which has been imputed to us (Rom 4:22-25). It is His righteousness, not ours.

Now to the key point - why are our deeds brought back up if they are forgotten? Each and every person is brought before the judgment seat. For those who are unsaved, I believe that it is clear why their deed are judged:

Jude 15
15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
NKJV

As indicated previously, there are only two ways to get to heaven - be perfect and never sin and be saved under the law, or be saved through receiving Christ as Saviour and through His righteousness. The first approach is a non-starter. Only one man has even led a perfect sinless life and that is Christ, therefore for those who choose to live without Christ, they are judged under the law, by the deeds that they have done. We know their fate.

For those who are saved, we know what our fate will be, but the deeds still matter. The sins are all covered so, for us, it is not our sins that will be judged - they have all been washed, but rather it is those deed done for him. Throughout scripture we find that those who are saved receive crowns for different things:

Crown of Rejoicing: 2 Tim 4:8
Crown of Life: James 1:12
Crown of Glory: 1 Pet 5:4
Crown of Life: Rev 2:10

There may be others. But the glory all belongs to Him, and from what I read in scripture, I believe that the end result, after the judgement will be that we will take these crowns and cast them at the feet of Him who deserves the glory:

Rev 4:9-11
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

11 "You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created."
NKJV

So the judgement of the deeds of those who are saved, I believe will be a judgement of what we have done for Him, not a remembrance of the sins which were covered by blood of Christ.

I think what was causing me to be confused was on how to take the words "good or bad" in 2 Corinthians 5:10. My thoughts were, does this mean that the saved and unsaved will be judged on good and bad done, or can we take from these words that if you are saved you will be judged upon the good, and unsaved upon not accepting Christ (bad); hence the word "OR" in the verse. This verse alone is not clear, but along with the others you added and your explanations, it helped to clarify what " in the verse. This verse alone is not clear, but along with the others you added and your explanations, it helped to clarify what " means in this verse.

I thank everyone for their responses!:)

[savedsinner7]

Any sins not repented of will also be judged for the believer.

I think what was causing me to be confused was on how to take the words "good or bad" in 2 Corinthians 5:10. My thoughts were, does this mean that the saved and unsaved will be judged on good and bad done, or can we take from these words that if you are saved you will be judged upon the good, and unsaved upon not accepting Christ (bad); hence the word "OR" in the verse. This verse alone is not clear, but along with the others you added and your explanations, it helped to clarify what "good or bad" means in this verse.

I thank everyone for their responses!:)