[KAOSKTRL]

Root of salam peace

s-l-m 495 to be safe, secure, protected, to surrender, to submit (al-salâm, islâm, salîm, muslim)

Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’

This is Islam, surrender or die.

Im not really talking to you,
Im talking to anyone who happens by.
I have already proven you're an idiot who lies either with a purpose or out of Ignoance I don't care which .I doesn't really make any difference to me your just another dead vampite, this is a what I do ,prove muslims are idiots and liars.
You were easy , you did it yourself.
Don't blame me for what Islam is. Im just the messenger.
Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008

[G4-450]

Root of salam peace

s-l-m 495 to be safe, secure, protected, to surrender, to submit (al-salâm, islâm, salîm, muslim)

Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’

There is evidence that Mohammed ever propagated war to restore peace, or any such saying as you just posted., so where did you get this from or did you make it up in your head again?.

The koran is exactly the step by step story about what actually took place in mecca at that time, this is evidence of what trouble pagans will go through over there little fancies and the atrocities they committed against innocent people like real Jews, Christians and the muslims who knew what the kabah stood for and held there word against the pagans with Mohammed.

Your version sounds like a Zionists lie, because only Zionists racist say that Mohammed was a murder to instigate that the pagans the muslims defended themselves against where jews, and the jews where not arabs like abraham, but Zionists are just nazis disguised as believers., and the pagans where indeed not jews, infact jews had to fight them side by side with muslims for corrupting the kabah, they knew mohammed's ministry was to protect them, which he did.

The only question you need to ask these Zionists or ultra orthodox jews is if they claim to be fallowers of the religion of Abraham "THEN WHY DID THEY NOT DO WHAT MOHAMMED DID IF THEY KNEW BETTER"?, obviously these are liar hypocrites.,
And what about the real jews who believed in Mohammed's ministry and who prayed side by side with muslims and Christians at that time.

FACTS;
Mohammed was attacked and forced out of Mecca by his uncle's own so called tribe known as the "Quraysh", i can't spell it correctly but they where a pagan gang basically like many others who surrounded the kabah at that time which mohammed spoke out against for atrocities they committed.

The Quraysh out numbered the muslims by 900 to 300 and attacked them to kill them once and but they failed n there plot,

Upon failing, by tradition normally the winning tribe kills there enemies, and offspring., but Mohammed went straight to the Kabah, and demanded that non believers step down in peace or take the fall, this is recorded fact and the very reason Islam is still here today.


So if you are a blood thirsty die hard horror movie fan and your trying to tell me Islam threatens you, then you have to be the biggest joke of a hypocrite on earth, its clearly a paranoia problem on your part, stick around paranoids will make you one.

The rest of your post is also made up by you, you really need help, why are you so scared of peace? Is it a invested interests in oil shares?

[KAOSKTRL]

You are just to stupid for words
Have you ever heard of Hadth?
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...m/001.smt.html
Book 001, Number 0030:

It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.

Why was Mohammed run out of Mecca?
After hassling the **** out of the meccans for 13 years they finally offered him what he wanted ,
His birth right.
A founders share of the Haj and keys to the Kabba and all the prestige that came with that.
And he ,Caved in He proved Islam was a fraud by uttering the Satanic verses.
The meccans were horrified to learn Mohammed was a fraud and he had to leave town ,
We he started robbing the caravans a stealing and killing people you bet the meccans came after him
That's what you do with crimanals you go after him,

Unfortunately this time the good guys lost.
The result Is Mohameedism. "Islam"

http://www.answering-islam.org/Hahn/satanicverses.htm.

Read about the moments that mohammed decide to start stealing instead of begging for food and money

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/15316

And enjoy this very importent message

The Janus* face of Islam





By Abul Kasem



Islamists living in the infidel West are greatly alarmed and deeply perplexed after the September terrorist attack in America. After 9-11, many of them are doing overtime to search the 'goodies' from the Qur’an and are desperate to prove that Islam is a religion of unbound mercy to their host countries. They repeatedly quote a handful of these 'goldies' from the 'Meccan Verses' of the Qur’an, which are milder in tone than the ones descended on Medina. They carefully hide the unconscionable, intolerable, barbaric verses that litter the almost entire Qur’an by saying that 'those verses are out of context' and are not applicable to the infidels who have given them a chance for a better life and have accepted them as their own countrymen. Nothing can be worse than this hide and seek game of the Islamists living in the West. It is in the interest of all the non-Muslims (as well as the innocent Muslims who have very little knowledge about 'real Islam') that the truth must be told.



The message is very clear. Those Islamists living in the West quote those 'goodies' from the Qur’an are actually showing the dead 'Meccan Islam' to the vast majority of the ignorant non-Muslims (as well as half-informed Muslims) to camouflage the most up to date version of Islam; i.e. the living and breathing 'Medina Islam'. The strategies of these Islamists are also very clear:



· When in the West or in the land of the infidels or when weak, then practice 'Meccan Islam'.

· When in Islamic paradises or when the number of Muslims becomes sizable in an infidels land, then practice 'Medina Islam' or the 'real Islam'.



The sooner the humanity discovers this double face of Islam (a la Roman god Janus) the more quick will it be saved from the further catastrophe of the like of 9-11.



So, how do we know about the 'living and breathing Medina Islam'? Here is the answer.



In order to understand the 'real Islam' we must look at Qur’an in chronological order and not the way it is published. The chronological order shows which verses are canceled and which verses are replaced. It is meaningless to study and to explain Qur’an without the knowledge of its currency. Many verses in the Qur’an have been replaced by other verses.



The Qur’an itself talks about this in the following verses:



God does not abrogate any verse but substitutes something similar or better... 2:106

God removes (abrogates?) what He wills... 13:39

God substitutes one revelation with another; God has the mother of the Book... 16:101



These verses have created a lot of confusions among many. However, one thing is certain. It is this. God does change His mind and that that change can be very dramatic. In many cases, the matter of abrogation may involve life and death situation. So, it is extremely important (especially for the ignorant non-Muslims) to know which verses are applicable to them and which verses are not. The most important among these verses are the ones containing the provisions of fighting the infidels. There was a time when fighting was prohibited and there was (rather is) a time when fighting became compulsory.

[KAOSKTRL]

Those verses revealed in Mecca are considered to be the benign and non-violent type. There are 87 Meccan verse and 27 Medina verses (this may vary slightly but we shall work with these numbers). Thus, there are total 114 suras (or chapters) in Qur’an.



Medina verses contain the provisions of fighting because it was in Medina that Mohammad received the green light (read signal) from God to fight the infidels. So, as a guide we can conclude that the verses with a chronology order of 87 or more are the replacement for the Meccan verses regarding the treatment of the unbelievers.



In this short discourse, I shall try to elucidate how we can eliminate the confusion regarding the 'goodies' from the Islamists and the 'bashings' from the secularists/freethinkers/infidels.



Please note that the chronology order of the verses are indicated in bold ( ).



We can divide the propagation of Islam by Mohammad in four distinct phases. These phases are:



1. Peaceful persuasion

2. Fighting for defense

3. Limited attack

4. Open aggression





Phase 1: Peaceful persuasion stage.

Highlights

· A policy of peaceful co-existence with the pagans of Mecca.

· Give and take strategy with the pagans and the hypocrites.

· Jews and Christians (people of the Book) were considered as friends.

· Mohammad was almost like the Buddha preaching love, forgiveness, non-violence, and peace.

· Only the pagans of Mecca were considered as enemies (i.e. enemy list contains only one group).





Important verses



(Note: To save time and space I have given the main messages of the verses omitting the complete verses. Click HERE if you want to read the complete verses)



1. Be patient and bear with those who deny the truth; God will deal with them... 73:10, 11 (3)

2. 'To you is your religion, to me is mine'... 109:1- 6 (8)

3. Be patient with the evil doers... 38:15-17 (38)

4. Show patience to the pagans... 20:130 (42)

5. Don't be in a haste to fight... 19:83, 84 (44)

6. Be patient with the unbelievers (pagans); God's way will prevail... 20:134, 135 (45)

7. Mohammad is not sent to dispose of people's affairs... 17:54 (50)

8. God guides those whom He pleases; rewards will be in paradise... 10:25, 26 (51)

9. God will call into account the pagans who slander the Qur’an... 15:91-93 (54)

10. It is not God's job to see if people believe the truth or not... 6:104 (55)

11. Turn away from those rejecting faith and proclaim peace on them... 43:88, 89 (69)

12. Invite the unbelievers (pagans) with beautiful preaching and gracious arguments; be patient and do not retaliate... 16:125, 126 (70)

13. Leave the unbelievers (pagans) alone... 23:54 (74)

14. Repeal evil with good deeds... 23:96 (74)

15. Leave the unbelievers alone and wait in patience for God to punish them... 52:45, 47, 48 (76)

16. Mohammad is only a warner and not an enforcer... 67:26 (77)





Phase 2: Fighting for defense stage

Highlights

· Mohammed along with his handful followers migrated to Medina (622 AD). Some tribes of Medina accepted him as their leader.

· Mohammed and his gang started raids on passing caravans of the Meccans to acquire the wherewithal for survival.

· Mohammad won the battle of Badr (same year of migration i.e.622 AD) which bolstered his morale for further raids on Meccan caravans.

· After several years of stay in Medina, God gave Mohammad permission to launch defensive war.

· Enemies were the pagans of Mecca and the hypocrites (note: the enemy list includes two groups now).

[KAOSKTRL]

Important verses

1. Permission to fight for self defense is granted... 22:39-41 (105)

2. Rewards for Jihad is announced... 22:58 (105)





Phase 3: More defensively aggressive stage



Highlights

· Mohammad expected the Jews of Medina to accept him as their new Moses.

· The Jews rejected Mohammad as their new apostle.

· Mohammad included the Jews as his enemy and started to raid their sanctuaries.

· Enemies of Mohammad now were pagans, hypocrites, and the Jews (note: the enemy list now contains three).

· Mohammad was a little bit forgiving to the defeated Jews. He gave them a chance to live in their lands provided they paid him fifty percent of their agricultural produce of land.

· This way Mohammad acquired the means of a guaranteed livelihood for his horde of soldiers.

· The battle of Uhud (623 AD) was fought. Muslims suffered a severe beating in the battle.

· The battle of trench (625 AD) took place with huge loss of lives. Mohammad managed to win this battle.

· Treaty of Hudaibiya (626 AD) was signed with the pagans of Mecca ensuring ten years of peace. Mohammad was allowed to visit Kaba along with his followers during the pilgrimage season.

· Battle of Khaibar (627 AD) took place. The Jews lost the battle and surrendered unconditionally. Mohmmad ordered the beheading of around 700 adult male surrendered Jews and took 17 years old Jewess Safiya as a war booty and made her his wife.



Important verses

1. Forgive and overlook the unbelieving Jews; God will take care of them... 2:109 (87)

2. Fight defensively the Meccan pagans but if they cease hostility then stop fighting except for the oppressors... 2:190-194 (87)

3. Fighting against the Meccan pagans is prescribed after the passing of the month of pilgrimage (Zulhaj)... 2:216, 217 (87)

4. 'No compulsion in religion'; do not force the defeated enemy to embrace Islam; but they will be thrown in hell... 2:256, 257 (87)

5. Spoils of war belongs to God and Mohammad... 8:1 (88)

6. Strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers; cut the necks and finger tips of those who oppose God and Mohammad... 8:12, 13 (88)

7. When you meet, the unbelievers in hostility attack them and never turn back from them. If you retreat except for a strategic reason then God will punish you and will send you to hell... 8:15-16 (88)

8. Keep on fighting until the persecution stops and Islam is established; one-fifth of booty belongs to God and Mohammad... 8:39-41 (88)

9. Obey Mohammad, be united and persevere in fighting... 8:45, 46 (88)

10. If you defeat the enemy then teach them with treachery and terror; if they ask for peace then give them peace... 8:57-61 (88)

11. Rouse the believers to fight with perseverance, God will help by increasing your strength... 8:65 (88)

12. Continue killing and do not take prisoners until the land is subdued then enjoy the war booty... 8:67-69 (88)

13. Martyr's sins are blotted out and they go to paradise... 3:157, 169-171, 195 (89)

14. Can take women captives as concubines in addition to wives... 33:50 (90)

15. There is a great reward for fighting against the friends of Satan... 4:74-78 (92)

16. Fight and rouse other believers to fight; God will restrain the fury of the unbelievers... 4:84 (92)

17. Kill the hypocrites if they turn renegades... 4:89 (92)

18. Higher grade for fighting for God... 4:95, 96 (92)

19. Guaranteed reward for fighting in the cause of God... 4:100 (92)

20. Whether a fighter kills or is killed, he is admitted in paradise to reside there permanently... 22:58, 59 (103)

21. Struggle for God's cause... 22:78 (103)

22. Can't lag behind in fighting for God... 48:15-16 (111)

23. Muslims are compassionate with each other but are strong to fight against the unbelievers... 48:29 (111)

[KAOSKTRL]

Phase 4: Offensive war or open declaration of attack to spread Islam



This phase is the stage of open offensive war against all the unbelievers. This phase started in 630 AD after Mohammad re-entered Mecca and captured Kaba from the pagans. This is the phase, which is currently valid for all Muslims.



Highlights

· Permission was granted by God to declare offensive war against all non-Muslims.

· Kill the pagans and humble the Jews and the Christians through Jizya tax.

· Tabuk expedition (late 630 AD) is the first war against the Christians.

· The world is divided into two houses, viz. House of Islam (Darul Islam) and the House of war (Darul Harb).

· All Muslims must fight to convert the Darul Harb into Darul Islam.

· This is the final teaching of Qur’an and so it is valid today and for future (that is, for eternity).

· Christians are included in the list of enemies (that is, the list now grows to four).

· Verse 9:5 (also called the verse of the sword) replaces all verses showing mercy, love, tolerance and forgiveness to all non-Muslims.



Important verses

1. Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable... 3:85 (89)

2. Kill (execute by beheading)/crucify/torture who opposes Mohammad... 5:33 (112)

3. Do not make friendship with the Jews and the Christians... 5:51 (112)

4. After giving four months notice break all treaties with the pagans that they did not keep; those treaties with the pagans that they kept are to be honored to their full term; in future make no more peace treaties with the pagans and kill all pagans who do not accept Islam... 9:1-6 (113)

5. Pagans who accept Islam are brothers of Muslims; those who break the agreement fight them... 9:11, 12, 14, 15 (113)

6. Do not make friend or seek protection from the unbelievers (includes pagans, hypocrites, Jews and the Christians)... 9:16 (113)

7. Unbelievers should not visit mosques or maintain the mosques of God; they will go to hell... 9:17 (113)

8. Those who do Jihad are the highest in rank; they will dwell in paradise... 9:19-22 (113)

9. The unbelievers are unclean, forbid them to enter Kaba... 9:28 (113)

10. Fight against the Jews and the Christians until they are subdued and pay the Jizya tax with submission; God's curse is on them... 9:29-31 (113)

11. If you do not fight in the cause of God with whatever you have got then God will punish you with a serious punishment... 9:38, 39, 41 (113)

12. If you fight for God then expect either martyrdom or paradise. The unbelievers can expect only punishment from God... 9:52 (113)

13. Those who are able to fight for God but do not do so are rejected by God... 9:90-96 (113)

14. Whether you slay or slain in Jihad, God has promised paradise for giving all in the cause of God... 9:111 (113)

15. Fight the unbelievers surrounding you... 9:122 (113)



So, what do we learn from the above list of Quranic verses? Are you confused? Of course you are. When the Islamists in the west are drumming, "Islam is peace. Islam is tolerance. Islam is merciful" who will not be confused by such contradictory statements! Let me tell you something. Actually there is no confusion whatsoever if we follow the simple rule on abrogation.



This simple doctrine of abrogation says that when there are confusions (i.e. contradictory statements in Qur’an), the later verses abrogate the former contradictory verses. The result is that only the latest category of verses remains valid without any doubt. That is why it is so important to know the chronological order of verses in Qur’an.



Let us hear from a modern translator (Yusuf Ali is too old) of the Qur’an and Hadith.



"So at first 'the fighting' was forbidden, then it was permitted and after that it was made obligatory against those who start 'the fighting' against you (Muslims) and against all those who worship others along with Allah".



(Ref. Introduction section of the English translation of Sahih Bukhari by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Medina Islamic University).



In the same section Dr M. Muhsin Khan writes further



, "Then Allah revealed in Sura Bara’at (9) the order to discard (all) the obligations (covenants, etc.) and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the pagans as well as against the people of the scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizya (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians who do not embrace Islam and are under the protection of an Islamic government) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (9:29). So they (Muslims) were not permitted to abandon ‘the fighting’ against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the possibility of fighting against them."



Jalaluddin Suyuti wrote Itqan fi 'ulum-il-Qur’an in 1497 AD. This book is the Tafsir (explanation) of Qur’an and is highly regarded. It is a compulsory reading for any one who wants to study Qur’an for its 'real meanings'. His another famous book is Istenbat al-Tanzeel. In this book



Suyuti wrote,"everything in the Qur’an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5".



Please read that above quote again if you are really serious about Islam. Remember that this verse has a chronology order of 113 (Remember? There are 114 suras in Qur’an).



Islamic apologists often quote the following verses to portray the mercy and forgiveness in Islam.



To you is your religion and to me is mine... 109:6

No compulsion in religion... 2:256

Turn away from those who join false gods with Allah... 15:94



Unfortunately, all those 'goodies' of Qur’an are canceled if we follow the Tafsir (explanation) of Suyuti and the doctrine of abrogation) regarding the verse of the sword (9:5).



Islamists love Ms. Karen Armstrong for her siding with them. Ms. Karen Armstrong writes to fool the non-Muslims in believing what George Bush is drumming, 'Islam is a peaceful religion'. Any one who has a workable knowledge on Islamic matters knows for sure that her writings are very misleading and does not tell the truth at all. When Ms. Karen Armstrong writes by quoting verse 2:190



"the only permissible war (in the Qur’an is one of self defense. Muslims must not begin hostilities", (Time magazine October 1, 2001)



She is clearly being dishonest in telling the truth about the phase four of Islamic war which calls all Muslims to declare a total war on the house of Harb (i.e. the infidels abodes). Phase four of Jihad is valid until all the people of the world are converted to Islam. Thus, today's Muslims are in perpetual war with the infidels whether they (the Muslims) are in an Islamic paradise like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh (recently included, previously not), Iran... or in infidel lands like USA, UK, Canada, France... etc.



Here is another quote from Alsaylu Jarar (4:518-519) by Al-Shawkani. Shawkani is a famous writer on Islamic matters. His writings are authoritative and are used by the Jihadis to justify their merciless actions.

"Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jizya tax (protection money for the Jews and the Christians only) or being killed. The verse about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case".



Can Ms. Karen Armstrong and other Islamists living in the comfort of non-Muslim freethinking society refute the above assertion by an eminent Alim (Islamic scholar)?



Please note that verse 9:5 is a very important verse of Qur’an. This verse marks the transition from the phase of showing mercy (phase 1) and forgiveness to the unbelievers to the phase of open aggression on them (phase 4). As told before, this verse is known as the verse of the sword. This verse cancels all the verses containing mercy, tolerance, and forgiveness to the non-Muslims (as many as 111 to 124 verses; you got to scan the entire Qur’an; anything forgiving, merciful, friendship is out).



Also, note carefully how the chronology order increases as Mohammad turns from a non-violent (like Buddha) person to a fascist nazi like Hitler/Mussolini/Osama/Ayatollah. In fact, we can safely conclude that Mohammad was a saint before the chronology order of the Qur’an was below 87 but he became a fascist dictator after this.



Again note that the chronology order in the final phase of open aggression against all non-Muslims of the world (phase 4) is almost the end (113) chapter (sura) of Qur’an (Remember? There are 114 suras in Qur’an).

[KAOSKTRL]

Is lying allowed in Islam? I must be a nut to ask such a question! Of course, not, you say. Lying is a great sin in Islam; at least the Islamists will let us believe this. This is a complete delusion. Muslims are allowed to tell lies in order to make the religion of Islam rule the world. Would you not believe me? See for yourself what Imam Ghazali (another supreme Islamic scholar) says:



"Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praise worthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible " (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745).



And what could be the noblest goal of a Muslim than to make Islam rule world? This is the secret why the Islamists constantly lie about their religion when they are in West. Because, if they tell the truth, no one will be attracted to Islam.



Islamists often attack the secularists and freethinkers whenever they (secularists/freethinkers) quote the offensive verses of the Qur’an by 'out of context' arguments.



What could be more clear and forceful evidences / proofs than what has been told above that 'out of context' argument by the Islamic apologists is a total hoax?

--------------------------

*A double-faced head represented Janus, a Roman god.

Kasem writes from Sydney, Australia. Comments could be made by writing to – [email protected]

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles...e_of_islam.htm

[G4-450]

This is getting more and more funny, its like your slapping yourself in the face over and over for not reading everything honesty at all., I take it your after a lie to feed the demons inside you till they rip your soul out into the fire.

Hadeeth or Talmud (hebrew) means sayings, like " hear say", its clear in the koran that liars believe in "hear say" and the Koran is all you need for the truth, there are however authentic hadeeths.

you keep calling people idiots and all these names when you find out they do not agree with your ideologies, and you can not even provide facts,
and also any idiot can understand what your trying to post better then you do, and what your trying to do with it is only reflecting your poor paranoic habits, so you know, im not upset at your posts at all, i just love telling you the truth becuase when you expose the evil state of mind you got yourself in..

Lets see, Allah means God, so they fight against pagans and polytheists who did not believe in ALLAH, remember now, Jews, Christians and muslims had to fight against the pagans and polytheists too.

Of-course these people who attacked BELIEVERS (of all 3 faiths) did not Believe in God and killed many innocent people, in-fact the believers fought only against those who broke there treaties after agreed to them and many times.


So you can hang up all your phony posts with arabic texts that mean nothing, This is all you need to know if its the truth you want, but of-course i am sure that your gonna try to convince people that Allah is not your god now and the God of arabs too.

Anyone who claims Mohammed attacked Jews or expected them to accept him for his word is a liar, Mohammed signed peace treaties with Jews and Christians and these treaties where very very clear on all sides, Mohammed offered to keep the kabah cleanse of non believers and to protect them as long as they stopped killing each other, remember that there where only around 10, 000 muslims up until Mohammed died, and millions of pagans and polytheists, as well as millions of jews and Christians.

The story you are telling is a fairy tail, you mixed words as half truths to claim lies, we all know colonialism and xenophobes like you are not to be trusted, God promises a evil hell for you now and when you die, every jew knows this too.

[Morganite]

This is an interesting thread. First it has to be acknowledged that archaeological 'evidence' rarely, if ever 'proves' anything that has a spiritual dimension or is regarded as spiritual truth.

Archaeology can uncover artefacts that show the level of skill reached by the inhabitants of a place at a particular time, and even the foreign influences that were imposed on a community, but no article can show, show, for example, that Jesus is the Son of God, or that Mohammed received inspiration from God. That is not the function of archaeology.

The 'correctness' of the Dead Sea Scrolls is constanty overemphasised, much to the detriment of arguments in favour of the Bible texts. But, unfortunately, both the Dead Sea (Cave I) text of Isaiah and the Septuagint text happen to be inferior articles, the former "rather an anticlimax" to the hopes of the scholars, and the latter "among the poorest [texts] in the Greek Bible."

The insistence that any text is pristine, that is, that it is in the form in which it was in the original monograph has to be challenged, because no originals texts have survived.

It took hundreds of years to give us the Bible, thousands, actually, if you include the Old Testament. The documents had to trickle in from different times, different places, and different writers.

The Tanakh, the Torah; Nebiim, the prophets; and the Kethubim, the literary writings. These are the three things that make up the Bible, all from different authors.

Some parts are poetry, some parts are prophecy, and some parts are history. There are lots of chronicles, etc. Some parts are the law from different times and different places, hundreds of different manuscripts.

Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, the oldest manuscript we had of the books of Moses (the first five books) was from the ninth century A.D. the Ben Asher Codex.

There are eight thousand different old manuscripts of the New Testament, no two alike. So there is a lot of collating, comparing, and arguing about which passages are which and what order they come in.

Then when you have translation, there is no agreement about that. Year after year there are new revised translations coming forth. Well, if the last translation is reliable, why the new revised, improved Cambridge, or Anchor, or whatever it is, edition of the Bible? It's processing all the time.

The Koran was produced in less time than the Bible, but it is heavily dependent ON the Bible. Large chunks of Biblical text are found within its pages, so the time of production has to be considered in the light of its plagiarism of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

I will conclude by asking: When will you know when the original Biblical monographs have been restored, and what difference will it make to Christianity in general and your faith, assuming that you are a Christian, in particular? Does faith depend on a perfect script? Is half a loaf better than no bread at all?






MORGANITE



:)

[G4-450]

It took hundreds of years to give us the Bible, thousands, actually, if you include the Old Testament. The documents had to trickle in from different times, different places, and different writers.

The Tanakh, the Torah; Nebiim, the prophets; and the Kethubim, the literary writings. These are the three things that make up the Bible, all from different authors.

Some parts are poetry, some parts are prophecy, and some parts are history. There are lots of chronicles, etc. Some parts are the law from different times and different places, hundreds of different manuscripts.

Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, the oldest manuscript we had of the books of Moses (the first five books) was from the ninth century A.D., the Ben Asher Codex.

There are eight thousand different old manuscripts of the New Testament, no two alike. So there is a lot of collating, comparing, and arguing about which passages are which and what order they come in.

Then when you have translation, there is no agreement about that. Year after year there are new revised translations coming forth. Well, if the last translation is reliable, why the new revised, improved Cambridge, or Anchor, or whatever it is, edition of the Bible? It's processing all the time.

The Koran was produced in less time than the Bible, but it is heavily dependent ON the Bible. Large chunks of Biblical text are found within its pages, so the time of production has to be considered in the light of its plagiarism of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

I will conclude by asking: When will you know when the original Biblical monographs have been restored, and what difference will it make to Christianity in general and your faith, assuming that you are a Christian, in particular? Does faith depend on a perfect script? Is half a loaf better than no bread at all?


MORGANITE

:)

Here we go again,
1- faith does not depend on a perfect strict, all prophets invited people to peace, and all had one universal message, so until the people abandon the demons they live with none of them will seek peace unless they change there ways,

2- the torah is known as the old testament, in the jewish faith the tenack is the LAW, the commandments, which again is called the sharia in arabic for islam.

3- Nothing from the immortal God was left out in the Koran which was in the bible, God is immortal and does not change, time does not exist to God but that he creates it to give us mortal creatures life.

So the only things the Koran refutes are the things which greedy men used to there advantage with religion, by breaking there oaths.

Anyone who has a problem with the Koran should take it up with God, as far as people and religion, it can vary who you trust and what you believe, its your conclusion from honest investigation what is really going on.


I think you might want to read this site about the dead sea scrolls
http://www.mostmerciful.com/scrolls.htm

[G4-450]

Also this site is very interesting
LInk Here



In this article, we have discussed the textual sources used for the translation of the NIV Bible. According to the translators of the NIV Bible, the sources used for the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament are their respective critical texts. It was shown that the critical texts, viz. Biblia Hebraica and Novum Testamentum Graece (and also The Greek New Testament based on the latter) are neither "inspired" nor "original" texts. Rather, they are "eclectic" editions and they aim for the earliest attainable form of the Hebrew and Greek texts that can be discerned on the basis of the surviving manuscript evidence. In other words, there is absolutely no evidence to show that the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament texts used in the translation of the NIV Bible are either "original" or "inspired" by God.

It must be stressed that the critical texts of the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament are unique. No texts like this ever existed in the history of Christianity until the advent of modern textual criticism. Nor were texts like these ever used in the translations in the past. The NIV Bible is not unique using such "eclectic" sources for translation. Most of the modern Bibles such as the RSV and the NASV Bibles also use "eclectic" texts of Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament.

The "eclectic" Greek New Testament used in these translations has the Alexandrian text. The KJV Bible, on the other hand, was translated from Erasmus' printed Greek New Testament that had the Byzantine text-type. Similar arguments, with slight modifications, can be forwarded against the textual sources used for the KJV Bible. It can be shown that the textual sources of the KJV Bible fare no better than the modern day "eclectic" sources, thereby, making the claim of "inspiration" or the "original" text invalid.

Finally, let us end with some thoughtful words of Robert Lane Fox:

In the Old Testament, especially, historians have helped us to realize that we cannot hope to recover the first, the 'original' text: it is in others, especially non-historians, that the urge to reconstruct it is still extremely strong. The most recent international committee on the text of the Old Testament defined its task by identifying five thousand important places where a Hebrew word was so puzzling that it might need to be corrected. It is not just that such corrections raise difficult questions of method (can we really compare Hebrew words with other Semitic words, Arabic for instance, and deduce a new, unattested sense?). It is that there is deeper problem: the starting point, the late Masoretic Hebrew text, already excludes many earlier alternatives. It is one arbitrary version, hallowed by use, not history. As for the New Testament, in 1966 the United Bible Societies issued a Greek text for students and transators which they, too, described a standard. Their committee considered that there were two thousand places where alternative readings of any significance survived in good manuscripts and then chose between them. It is not just that by 1975 their Greek text had had to be revised twice because no revision has yet proved free from error and improvement. The very aim, a standard version, is misleading and unrealistic. From the variety which we have, any standard involves loss: it does not, and cannot, give us exactly what Paul or the Evangelists originally wrote. [31]

[KAOSKTRL]

Tasfir 0f 5.17 I think Off the top of my head.

The Polytheism and Disbelief of the Christians

Allah states that the Christians are disbelievers because of their claim that `Isa, son of Maryam, one of Allah's servants and creatures, is Allah. Allah is holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah then reminds them of His perfect ability over everything and that everything is under His complete control and power,

[قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعاً]

(Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those who are on the earth together") Therefore, if Allah wills to do that, who would be able to stop Him or prevent Him from doing it Allah then said,

[وَللَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَآءُ]

(And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills.) All things in existence are Allah's property and creation and He is able to do everything. He is never asked about what He does with His power, domain, justice and greatness so this refutes the Christian creed, may Allah's continued curses be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13560

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008

[G4-450]

Tasfir 0f 5.17 I think Off the top of my head.

The Polytheism and Disbelief of the Christians

Allah states that the Christians are disbelievers because of their claim that `Isa, son of Maryam, one of Allah's servants and creatures, is Allah. Allah is holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah then reminds them of His perfect ability over everything and that everything is under His complete control and power,

1st off, Allah never called Christians polytheists or that they are one and the same. no where in the Koran is there anything saying what your trying to instigate lies against Islam, and your commmiting a curse upon yourself for this.

Koran 2.62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

Jesus said in Mathew 19:17
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments (laws)--> AKA Tenack in hebrew or Shariah in Arabic.


2nd of all, the death wish on Jesus by his enemies who where not believers in ALLAH during his life on earth and the concept of the Trinity are not one and the same crowd,

Morganite's post about the dead sea scrolls and the Gospel of Barnabes proves that Jesus was never crucified, So how could any man have known this 1400 years ago when the dead sea scrolls appeared 1946?
Surely the Koran is the word of God, the same God of the Bible

You can search here for when the so called trinityand crucifixion started after the life of Jesus and why; http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/aotb.htm

Read again since you left out something to the story;
Koran 4.15 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

4.158 Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.


4.159 And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.
(((( This is clear that Jesus will have a 2nd comming and stand against those who claimed he was crucified, son of God or trinity to ask them then who gave him life again in the hear after before they are casted into hell and that he had no power higher then God's)))) ))))

Jesus in Matthew 15:19 ; But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

3.59 Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.

((( jesus had a mortal mother while Adam "man kind in Hebrew", had no mortal Father or Mother ))))

3.60 (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.

3.61 But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

((( So if you think to stand by conjecture when t has been proven as clear evidence to you, then your challenge is not with believers like me, but with ALLAH, who created all of us, and Jesus will testify against you for it ))))


So look in a dictionary to see what polytheism means before you start mixing it all up with believers and or fallowers of the book.

So as we see, the Koran I very clear in making the diference between who are christians and who are polythiests

[G4-450]

(Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those who are on the earth together") Therefore, if Allah wills to do that, who would be able to stop Him or prevent Him from doing it Allah then said,

[???????? ?????? ???????????? ??????????? ????? ??????????? ???????? ??? ???????]

Nope, this is no where to be found in the Koran, you took parts of one paragraph and twisted it with your lies again.

(And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills.) All things in existence are Allah's property and creation and He is able to do everything. He is never asked about what He does with His power, domain, justice and greatness so this refutes the Christian creed, may Allah's continued curses be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

Allah's curse is only on the disbelievers because they lie, starting with Satan and anyone who fallows him, just like you. unless of course they change for the better.
Koran; [8.71] When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust:
[38.72] So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down making obeisance to him.
[38.73] And the angels did obeisance, all of them,
[38.74] But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
[38.75] He said: O Iblis! What prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
[38.76] He said: I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
[38.77] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:
[38.78] And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.
[38.79] He said: My Lord! Then respite me to the day that they are raised.
[38.80] He said: Surely you are of the respited ones,
[38.81] Till the period of the time made known.
[38.82] He said: Then by Thy Might I will surely make them live an evil life, all,
[38.83] Except Thy servants from among them, the purified ones.
[38.84] He said: The truth then is and the truth do I speak:
[38.85] That I will most certainly fill hell with you and with those among them who follow you, all.

The liars are cursed; [2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.

[61.7] And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah and he is invited to Islam, and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[61.8] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, though the unbelievers may be averse.

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:
..........................
.......................
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008

This again are lies,
Shirk literally means; "associating partners with God". Polythiesm.
Jihad literally means; "to struggle" or "to strive.

The rest that you keep posting reminds me of what the nazi Germans used to tell there public inside the berlin walls, identical lies made up by xenophobes.

Jihad in the bible; Jesus against so called shirks; (Luke 19:26-27)
"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" .

Old Testament; "I will send my terror in front of you... you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces" (Exodus 23: 23-24, 27). *

Quote:

Gen.35 [5] And they journeyed: and the terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them, and they did not pursue after the sons of Jacob.

Lev.26 [16] I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror , consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

Deut.34 [12] And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.

Job.6 [4] For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

The story of the Mighty Samson and jihad in the bible:
"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible.* Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:

"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them."* Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform.* Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes."* Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.* (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"

God, ALLAH, never change his word against unjust people, tyrants and liars.
[50.29] My word shall not be changed, nor am I in the least unjust to the servants.

I can go on, but the point is that God's word stands against those who use it in tribal favoritism against other unjustly, as also the jews did against the other tribes of israel.

[KAOSKTRL]

[QUOTE=KAOSKTRL]Tasfir 0f 5.17 I think Off the top of my head.

The Polytheism and Disbelief of the Christians

Allah states that the Christians are disbelievers because of their claim that `Isa, son of Maryam, one of Allah's servants and creatures, is Allah. Allah is holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah then reminds them of His perfect ability over everything and that everything is under His complete control and power,

[قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعاً]

(Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those who are on the earth together") Therefore, if Allah wills to do that, who would be able to stop Him or prevent Him from doing it Allah then said,

[وَللَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَآءُ]

(And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills.) All things in existence are Allah's property and creation and He is able to do everything. He is never asked about what He does with His power, domain, justice and greatness so this refutes the Christian creed, may Allah's continued curses be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13560

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008

[G4-450]

I take it from your post that you want to stand by your modified texts to entice anti semetic racist like yourself..

[4.120] He gives them promises and excites vain desires in them; and the Shaitan does not promise them but to deceive.


[7.179] And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones.


:D
Keep posting, this is really a good example of how the "Jihad Watch " suckers use lies to deceive ignorant inbred xenophobes who we need to keep track off for crimes in our streets like alcohol related rape, robberies, drive by shootings, looting, fruad, deception and hate crimes above all.

I am sure that foreigners do not know the system that well to be carrying out such low acts in our streets, did you?

[G4-450]

Tasfir 0f 5.17 I think Off the top of my head.

The Polytheism and Disbelief of the Christians

Allah states that the Christians are disbelievers because of their claim that `Isa, son of Maryam, one of Allah's servants and creatures, is Allah. Allah is holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah then reminds them of His perfect ability over everything and that everything is under His complete control and power,

1st off, Allah never called Christians polytheists or that they are one and the same. no where in the Koran is there anything saying what your trying to instigate lies against Islam, and your commmiting a curse upon yourself for this.

Koran 2.62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

Jesus said in Mathew 19:17
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments (laws)--> AKA Tenack in hebrew or Shariah in Arabic.


2nd of all, the death wish on Jesus by his enemies who where not believers in ALLAH during his life on earth and the concept of the Trinity are not one and the same crowd,

Morganite's post about the dead sea scrolls and the Gospel of Barnabes proves that Jesus was never crucified, So how could any man have known this 1400 years ago when the dead sea scrolls appeared 1946?
Surely the Koran is the word of God, the same God of the Bible

You can search here for when the so called trinityand crucifixion started after the life of Jesus and why; http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/aotb.htm

Read again since you left out something to the story;
Koran 4.15 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

4.158 Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.


4.159 And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.
(((( This is clear that Jesus will have a 2nd comming and stand against those who claimed he was crucified, son of God or trinity to ask them then who gave him life again in the hear after before they are casted into hell and that he had no power higher then God's)))) ))))

Jesus in Matthew 15:19 ; But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

3.59 Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.

((( jesus had a mortal mother while Adam "man kind in Hebrew", had no mortal Father or Mother ))))

3.60 (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.

3.61 But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

((( So if you think to stand by conjecture when t has been proven as clear evidence to you, then your challenge is not with believers like me, but with ALLAH, who created all of us, and Jesus will testify against you for it ))))


So look in a dictionary to see what polytheism means before you start mixing it all up with believers and or fallowers of the book.

So as we see, the Koran I very clear in making the diference between who are christians and who are polythiests

[G4-450]

(Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those who are on the earth together") Therefore, if Allah wills to do that, who would be able to stop Him or prevent Him from doing it Allah then said,

[???????? ?????? ???????????? ??????????? ????? ??????????? ???????? ??? ???????]

Nope, this is no where to be found in the Koran, you took parts of one paragraph and twisted it with your lies again.

(And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills.) All things in existence are Allah's property and creation and He is able to do everything. He is never asked about what He does with His power, domain, justice and greatness so this refutes the Christian creed, may Allah's continued curses be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

Allah's curse is only on the disbelievers because they lie (not christians), the talmudic Jews are the ones who hate Christians, and Allahs curse started with Satan and anyone who fallows him, just like you. unless you change for the better.
Koran; [8.71] When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust:
[38.72] So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down making obeisance to him.
[38.73] And the angels did obeisance, all of them,
[38.74] But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
[38.75] He said: O Iblis! What prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
[38.76] He said: I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
[38.77] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:
[38.78] And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.
[38.79] He said: My Lord! Then respite me to the day that they are raised.
[38.80] He said: Surely you are of the respited ones,
[38.81] Till the period of the time made known.
[38.82] He said: Then by Thy Might I will surely make them live an evil life, all,
[38.83] Except Thy servants from among them, the purified ones.
[38.84] He said: The truth then is and the truth do I speak:
[38.85] That I will most certainly fill hell with you and with those among them who follow you, all.

The liars are cursed; [2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.

[61.7] And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah and he is invited to Islam, and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[61.8] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, though the unbelievers may be averse.

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:
..........................
.......................
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008

These are lies again with your intentions to point the finger in order to start blame games against islam,

Jihad is from the bible, you know it and G W Bush knows it well and tries to pretend he is backing it up against Sadam, one of his very own allies who made deals with Russia which the US. Did not like since the Regean Administration.

Shirk literally means; "associating partners with God". Polythiesm.
Jihad literally means; "to struggle" or "to strive.

The rest that you keep posting reminds me of what the nazi Germans used to tell there public inside the berlin walls, identical lies made up by xenophobes.

Jihad in the bible; Jesus against so called shirks; (Luke 19:26-27)
"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" .

Old Testament; "I will send my terror in front of you... you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces" (Exodus 23: 23-24, 27). *

Quote:

Gen.35 [5] And they journeyed: and the terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them, and they did not pursue after the sons of Jacob.

Lev.26 [16] I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror , consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

Deut.34 [12] And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.

Job.6 [4] For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

The story of the Mighty Samson and jihad in the bible:
"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible.* Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:

"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them."* Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform.* Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes."* Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.* (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"

God, ALLAH, never change his word against unjust people, tyrants and liars.
[50.29] My word shall not be changed, nor am I in the least unjust to the servants.

I can go on, but the point is that God's word stands against those who use it in tribal favoritism against other unjustly, as also the jews did against the other tribes of israel.

[KAOSKTRL]

2.191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
http://infidels.kafirnation.com/english/surah2.html

Fatwa
Question :

I see the word fitnah repeated often in the Qur’aan in several soorahs and aayahs. Is there a difference in the meanings of this word, and what are its various meanings?


Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Definition of fitnah:

1 – The word fitnah from a linguistic point of view:

Al-Azhari said: “The Arabic word fitnah includes meanings of testing and trial. The root is taken from the phrase fatantu al-fiddah wa’l-dhahab (I assayed (tested the quality of) the silver and gold), meaning I melted the metals to separate the bad from the good. Similarly, Allaah says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): ‘(It will be) a Day when they will be tried [yuftanoona] (punished, i.e. burnt) over the Fire!’ [al-Dhaariyaat 51:13], meaning, burning them with fire.” (Tahdheeb al-Lughah, 14/196).

Ibn Faaris said: “Fa-ta-na is a sound root which indicates testing or trial.” (Maqaayees al-Lughah, 4/472). This is the basic meaning of the word fitnah in Arabic.

Ibn al-Atheer said: “Fitnah: trial or test… The word is often used to describe tests in which something disliked is eliminated. Later it was also often used in the sense of sin, kufr (disbelief), fighting, burning, removing and diverting.” (al-Nihaayah, 3/410. Ibn Hajar said something similar in al-Fath, 13/3).

Ibn al-A’raabi summed up the meanings of fitnah when he said: “Fitnah means testing, fitnah means trial, fitnah means wealth, fitnah means children, fitnah means kufr, fitnah means differences of opinion among people, fitnah means burning with fire.” (Lisaan al-‘Arab by Ibn Manzoor).

2 – Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

1- Testing and trial, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: ‘We believe, and will not be tested [la yuftanoon]” [al-‘Ankaboot 29:2]

i.e. that they will not be subjected to trial, as Ibn Jareer said.

2- Blocking the way and turning people away, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“but beware of them lest they turn you [yaftinooka] (O Muhammad) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you” [al-Maa’idah 5:49]

Al-Qurtubi said: this means blocking your way and turning you away.

3- Persecution, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then, verily, your Lord for those who emigrated after they had been put to trials [futinoo] and thereafter strove hard and fought (for the Cause of Allaah) and were patient, verily, your Lord afterward is, Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful” [al-Nahl 16:110]

Put to trial means persecuted.

4- Shirk and kufr, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah)” [al-Baqarah 2:193]

Ibn Katheer said: this means shirk (worshipping others besides Allaah).

5- Falling into sin and hypocrisy, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“(The hypocrites) will call the believers: “Were we not with you?” The believers will reply: “Yes! But you led yourselves into temptations [fatantum anfusakum], you looked forward for our destruction; you doubted (in Faith) and you were deceived by false desires” [al-Hadeed 57:14]

Al-Baghawi said: i.e. you made yourselves fall into hypocrisy and you destroyed yourselves by means of sin and whims and desires.

6- Confusing truth with falsehood, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who disbelieve are allies of one another, (and) if you (Muslims of the whole world collectively) do not do so [i.e. become allies, as one united block under one Khaleefah (a chief Muslim ruler for the whole Muslim world) to make victorious Allaah’s religion of Islamic Monotheism], there will be Fitnah (wars, battles, polytheism) and oppression on the earth, and a great mischief and corruption (appearance of polytheism)”[al-Anfaal 6:73]

What this means is that “unless believers are taken as close friends instead of disbelievers, even if they are relatives, there will be fitnah on earth, i.e., truth will be confused with falsehood.” This is how it is explained in Jaami’ al-Bayaan by Ibn Jareer.

7- Misguidance, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whomsoever Allaah wants to put in Al‑Fitnah (error, because of his rejecting of Faith), you can do nothing for him against Allaah” [al-Maa'idah 5:41]

The meaning of fitnah here is misguidance. Al-Bahr al-Muheet by Abu Hayaan, 4/262.

8- Killing and taking prisoners, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“if you fear that the disbelievers may put you in trial [yaftinakum] (attack you)”

[al-Nisa’ 4:101]

This refers to the kaafirs attacking the Muslims whilst they are praying and prostrating, in order to kill them or take them prisoner, as stated by Ibn Jareer.

9- Difference among people and lack of agreement, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“and they would have hurried about in your midst (spreading corruption) and sowing sedition among you [yabghoonakum al-fitnah]” [al-Tawbah 9:47]

i.e. they would have stirred up differences amongst you, as it says in al-Kashshaaf, 2/277.

10-Insanity, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Which of you is afflicted with madness (maftoon)” [al-Qalam 68:6] Here it means madness.

11-Burning with fire, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who put into trial [fatanoo] the believing men and believing women (by torturing them and burning them)”[al-Burooj 85:10]

Ibn Hajar said: the meaning may be understood from the context. (al-Fath 11/176)

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng
The Polytheism and Disbelief of the Christians

Allah states that the Christians are disbelievers because of their claim that `Isa, son of Maryam, one of Allah's servants and creatures, is Allah. Allah is holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah then reminds them of His perfect ability over everything and that everything is under His complete control and power,

[قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعاً]

(Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those who are on the earth together") Therefore, if Allah wills to do that, who would be able to stop Him or prevent Him from doing it Allah then said,

[وَللَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَآءُ]

(And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills.) All things in existence are Allah's property and creation and He is able to do everything. He is never asked about what He does with His power, domain, justice and greatness so this refutes the Christian creed, may Allah's continued curses be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13560

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

[KAOSKTRL]

Question :

What is the difference between mushrikeen and kuffaar? Are the Jews and Christians mushrikeen or kuffaar?.


Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The kaafir is the one who denies and conceals the truth. The basic meaning of the word kufr in Arabic is concealment. Shirk means devoting worship to anyone or anything other than Allaah.

Kufr may take the form of denying and rejecting, but the mushrik may also believe in Allaah. This is the difference between the mushrik and the kaafir.

Each word may also carry the meaning of the other, so the word kufr may be used in the sense of shirk, and the word shirk may be used in the sense of kufr.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

Sharh Saheeh Muslim. 2/71

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr is denial and concealment of the truth, such as one who denies that prayer is obligatory, or that zakaah is obligatory, or that fasting Ramadaan is obligatory, or that doing Hajj when one is able to is obligatory, or that honouring one's parents is obligatory, and so on, or one who denies that zina is haraam, or that drinking intoxicants is haraam, or that disobeying one’s parents is haraam, and so on.

Shirk is devoting acts of worship to something or someone other than Allaah, such as one who seeks the help of the dead, those who are absent, the jinn, idols, the stars, and so on, or who offers sacrifices to them, or makes vows to them. A kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allaah, any other ilaah (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, Al‑Kaafiroon (the disbelievers in Allaah and in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:117]

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode”

[al-Maa'idah 5:72]

And Allaah says in Soorat Faatir (interpretation of the meaning):

“Such is Allaah, your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).

14. If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All‑Knower (of everything)”
[Faatir 35:13-14]

Their calling on anything other than Allaah is called shirk in this soorah, but in Soorat al-Mu’minoon it is called kufr.

Allaah says in Soorat al-Tawbah (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent — Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kaafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it).

33. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) hate (it)”

[al-Tawbah 9:32-33]

Here Allaah calls the kuffaar kuffaar, and He calls them mushrikeen. This indicates that a kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir. There are many similar verses and ahaadeeth.

Another example is the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his giving up prayer.” Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him). And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The covenant that differentiates us from them is prayer; whoever gives it up is a kaafir.” Narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nasaa’i and Ibn Maajah with a saheeh isnaad from Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him). And Allaah is the Source of strength. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 9/174, 175.

The Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

It is also shirk to worship only something other than Allaah. This is called shirk, and it is called kufr. Whoever turns away from Allaah altogether and devotes his worship to something other than Allaah, such as trees, rocks, idols, the jinn or some of the dead such as those whom they call awliya’ (“saints”), and worship them, pray to them or fast for them, and forget Allaah altogether, this is the worst form of kufr and shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly those who deny the existence of Allaah and say that there is no god, that life is only material, such as the communists and atheists, are the most disbelieving and misguided of people, and the worst in terms of shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. The point is that people who hold these and similar beliefs are all regarded as mushrikeen and kaafirs who disbelieve in Allaah. Some people, out of ignorance, mistakenly regard calling upon the dead and seeking their help as waseelah and think that it is permissible. This is a serious error, because this action is one of the worst forms of shirk and associating others with Allaah. Some ignorant people and mushrikeen call it waseelah, but it is the religion of the mushrikeen whom Allaah criticized and condemned. He sent the Messenger and revealed His Books to denounce it and warn against it. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/32, 33

Secondly:

The Jews and Christians are both kaafirs and mushrikeen. They are kaafirs because they deny the truth and reject it. And they are mushrikeen because they worship someone other than Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:30, 31]

Here they are described as mushrikeen. In Soorat al-Bayyinah they are described as kaafirs, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al‑Mushrikoon, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence”

[al-Bayyinah 98:1]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, refuting those who say that the word mushrikeen cannot be applied to the People of the Book:

It is most likely that the people of the Book are included among the mushrikeen, men and women alike, when this word is used in general terms. Because the kuffaar are undoubtedly mushrikeen. Hence they are forbidden to enter al-Masjid al-Haraam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe (in Allaah’s Oneness and in His Messenger Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, and in the Message of Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al‑Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah) after this year”

[al-Tawbah 9:28]

If the People of the Book did not come under the general heading of mushrikeen, then this verse would not apply to them, and Allaah would not have referred to the beliefs of the Jews and Christians in Soorat Baraa’ah (al-Tawbah) where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

So they are all described as mushrikeen, because the Jews said that ‘Uzayr is the son of God and the Christians said that the Messiah is the son of God; and because they took their priests and rabbis as lords instead of Allaah. All of this is the worst form of shirk. And there are many similar verses. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/274

And Allaah knows best.

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=67626&dgn=4