[ActionJackson]

Action,

you misunderstood me. I do believe baptism is important. I believe anyone who professes Christ SHOULD be baptised. However, it is not a requirement for salvation. I have friends who believe it is...thats ok. I don't like to fight and argue of the WORD! It is too important and I have found that I haven't changed anyone's mind. I pray the Holy Spirit will do that for me or for them....whoever may be in error. Is Jesus GOD? He most certainly is....he is the Great I AM! How awesome is that ...anyway?

No, we don't black out any verses. We put them in context, we understand who they are written to, when they were written and why they were written. It is about learning to understand how to read the Bible properly. Should we black out this verse? What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THOU SHALT BE SAVED and they house. IF i read that correctly, it doesn't mention baptism AND all the times the apostle Paul gives the gospel, never ever does he say baptism is a requirement. It just isn't there.

I apologize for arguing with you. I come from a family of 8 siblings and that's about the only way we passed the time, generally speaking. You are my sister in Christ. We are on the same path. I do put more importance on baptism that you do but as long as you agree that it should be done, no harm no foul. I do hope that if someone decides to be baptized that they don't do it with a flip attitude or just because their friend is doing it or for show, etc. I hope that they understand that they are about to enter into a relationship with their Saviour and their Creator. I believe it should be taken seriously just like taking communion should be done with the proper attitude and desire. God bless you, your family, your community, and your church.

[jayb09]

Tessy 777. I have read your posts. Quite honestly, we agree to disagree. You apparently feel that scriptures are there for us to read but not abide by and that we can select certain scriptures to abide by. Believing is a part of it yes. But there is instructions for after you believe in Mark 16:16 Jesus Christ said, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and these signs shall follow them that believe... In my name shall they cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues -If I am not mistaken, that is clearly telling me about salvation because it explained what I need to do to be saved.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

So you believe but now what? James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles in Caesarea that he preached to the Jews and the other nations at Jerusalem, on the day of Pentecost, they received the Holy Ghost; spake with other tongues; and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Read Acts 10:44-48). The scriptures were not just for us to read and think that that type of salvation was just for the jews. The enemy would like for us to think that.

The Apostle Paul met John's Disciples who had not received salvation , and said unto them, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you Believed?" (Acts 19:5). You have to believe according to the scriptures. (St. John 7:38). John's Disciples said unto Paul, We have not so much heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Paul said unto them, "unto what then were you baptized?" Paul went on to explain the truth unto them, about the baptism. They obeyed and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues, (Acts 19:1-6).

Nowhere in all of the Bible can it be found where God's Ministers told the people bow their heads and raise their hands and receive Jesus right where they are, without mentioning repentance, baptism or receiving the Holy Ghost.

Apostle Paul said: "If an angel from heaven preached any other gospel except that which they have preached, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8-9.

Romans 6:3-4, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." As Jesus Christ, through his own death condemned sin in the flesh and raised by the glory of the Father, you also, when you are baptized into Jesus Christ, being baptized into his death, can rise and walk in the newness of life.

Col. 3:17; "And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him."

I will conclude by saying this? How can we just some scripture forget all the rest and say this one seems right. I'll just believe. What are your works after you believe because it is written that Faith without works is dead. The bible does not contradict itself. In other words there are not mulitple ways for salvation. We have to study all verses and pray for understanding in all things.

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Peace be

[Retrotia]

I agree to agree with Tessy777!

Belief in Christ (faith) saves you- not works!
Did Jesus Command Baptism in Order to be Saved?

It may be a command- like loving your neighbor- but not loving a neighbor will not condemn you either.
I have more from the Bible if you need more proof that salvation is not about baptism.

[nanajo1]

I don't believe that God is Jesus, I believe that God is what many perceive as the heavenly father and that Jesus is his Son. The reason that I say many perceive his as the heavenly father is because there are those among the religious background who believe that there is also a Goddess.

Before the Christian body begins to slam that idea, think about this. God has asked us not to judge others for how they believe in him or perceive him. Who are we to question that? Every country has their own way of perceiveing God, so does each nationality. God made us in his image, and he made, whites, blacks, asian, etc, etc etc. we are all different. Some believe in the way that the Jewish do, others believe as the Muslim, etc. We are all gods children, whether we are protestant, catholic, Muslim, or even Pagan. He doesn't love one any less than the other

[nanajo1]

Shel, I don't see that anyone has to be saved if they have a believe in a higher spirit, period. How are we saved? Do we have soldiers surrounding our cities fighting for us? Do we accept christianity as others want us to? Can they give us a guarantee that their religion is the one that will see us into heaven? We all go to heaven whether we are muslim, jewish, catholic, christian or pagan. That is the unique thing about God, he made each person in his image, that means the blacks, chinese, Natives, etc. so therefore, God must also be of the same religion as each person that he has put on this earth, and he has asked that we not judge but to love, accept and to believe

[ActionJackson]

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles in Caesarea that he preached to the Jews and the other nations at Jerusalem, on the day of Pentecost, they received the Holy Ghost; spake with other tongues; and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Read Acts 10:44-48).
The Apostle Paul met John's Disciples who had not received salvation , and said unto them, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you Believed?" (Acts 19:5). (St. John 7:38). John's Disciples said unto Paul, We have not so much heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. Paul said unto them, "unto what then were you baptized?" Paul went on to explain the truth unto them, about the baptism. They obeyed and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues, (Acts 19:1-6).
Romans 6:3-4, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." As Jesus Christ, through his own death condemned sin in the flesh and raised by the glory of the Father, you also, when you are baptized into Jesus Christ, being baptized into his death, can rise and walk in the newness of life.

Peace be

Howdy Jayb09. Apparently, we're the minority when it comes to our understanding of the importance of baptism and God's divinity. I guess we just have to remember that there is a broad path and a narrow path.

I came across another passage that may add to your substantial armory. Acts 8:35-38, "Then Phillip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him (the eunuch) Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch said, 'See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?' And Phillip said, 'If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.' And he answered and said, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Phillip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."

Clearly, Phillip was not prepared to baptize the eunuch unless the eunuch first professed that he believed in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

During this study, I came across a sinister thing. I have a collection of many different versions of the Bible. When I looked up this verse in the "New American Bible (not the New American Standard Bible) which is published by the Catholic Press, I found that verse 37 was totally omitted. The number 37 was in brackets [37] but the verse, itself, was gone. I then looked in the "New Jerusalem Bible" and found that it was omitted from that version as well. In fact, when you read the passage, the verses are numbered like they are in other Bibles except in this case it was numbered :35, :36, :38, :39. The number :37 was simply not there. The 37th verse of Acts chapter 8 was purposely removed. That is a major sin against God and His Word. The New Jerursalem Bible is a popular Bible used by a mega-church that bases many of its beliefs on tradition rather than the Word of God. Apparently, verse 37 must have gotten in the way of one of its traditions. It's also missing from the "New International Version." Again, the number 37 and the corresponding verse are missing.

With so many "new" Christians using the "new" versions of the Bible, it's no wonder that that they discount so much of God's Word. Satan has certainly done his job and continues to do so.

[ordinaryguy]

During this study, I came across a sinister thing.

The 37th verse of Acts chapter 8 was purposely removed. That is a major sin against God and His Word.

Satan has certainly done his job and continues to do so.

AJ--Some food for thought. In the New King James Version, the footnote to verse 37 says:

"NU-text and M-text omits this verse. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition."

The preface describes the manuscript texts referred to in some detail, and ends with the following statement:

With the assistance of these footnotes, which show lines of textual divergence more fully than commonly provided with English language versions of the Bible, it is trusted that readers will be enabled to better appreciate the substance and degree of variation in the manuscript sources of the New Testament.

So it turns out that some manuscripts include the text and at least two significant ones don't include it. In a situation like this what do you think is the proper thing for a translator to do?

Are you really sure it's Satan who's responsible for the choices that some translators have made to leave it out? Is it Satan's doing that multiple manuscripts of various ages and sources have survived and that they aren't all identical in every particular? I'm always fascinated to know people's assessment of how much of what exists and what happens is Satan's doing.

[Tessy777]

Shel, i dont see that anyone has to be saved if they have a believe in a higher spirit, period. How are we saved? do we have soldiers surrounding our cities fighting for us? Do we accept christianity as others want us to? Can they give us a guarantee that their religion is the one that will see us into heaven? We all go to heaven whether we are muslim, jewish, catholic, christian or pagan. That is the unique thing about God, he made each person in his image, that means the blacks, chinese, Natives, etc. so therefore, God must also be of the same religion as each person that he has put on this earth, and he has asked that we not judge but to love, accept and to believe

JESUS SAID... I am the way, the truth and the life... NO MAN comes to the Father but by ME. John 14:6

I didn't say it... so don't get ticked at me. Either Jesus is God and He is truth or he is a liar. That is something you need to decide.

[ActionJackson]

AJ--Some food for thought. In the New King James Version, the footnote to verse 37 says:
The preface describes the manuscript texts referred to in some detail, and ends with the following statement:
So it turns out that some manuscripts include the text and at least two significant ones don't include it. In a situation like this what do you think is the proper thing for a translator to do?

Are you really sure it's Satan who's responsible for the choices that some translators have made to leave it out? Is it Satan's doing that multiple manuscripts of various ages and sources have survived and that they aren't all identical in every particular? I'm always fascinated to know people's assessment of how much of what exists and what happens is Satan's doing.

The word "Satan" simply means adversary. There are many satans and there is Satan. Regardless of how you see satan, I do believe that there are those who seek to alter or even destroy God's word for one reason or the other. Satan may use some people without them even knowing it.

I believe that the Textus Receptus is the most complete and correct English translation of God's Word. If you were to study the way in which the Authorized King James Bible came to be you may very well appreciate it a great deal more than you currently do (not that you don't but I say that in a general sense). The translators went to painstaking length to get an exact translation and they checked and cross checked each other's work. The process took years. I have several books that discuss the various translations of the Bible. I strongly urge you to get a book called "New Age Versions" by Riplinger. Super good book but long. If you like to read, you will like it.

Anyway, the fact that the new translations, using the very same numbering system as the King James, simply skipped over that verse. I find that very fishy. If they didn't believe that it belongs in the Bible, then verse 38 should have become 37 and 39 would have become 38 ,etc.

[jayb09]

Tessy 777 and Retroia. It is certainly not my intention to offend. I often find that when people speak on about different things in the bible that some may not agree with it causes strife and that certainly is not my intention. As stated previously, we agree to disagree. I know that the Lord is soon to come and I am trying to make my calling and election sure.
I leave you with a scripture that I read last night

Bear in mind that I have never given you something made up by man but everything I have provided is in the scriptures. You both stated you are saved because you believed if I am not mistaken. I leave you with this scriputure

Galation 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?
Galatians 2:17E ven so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Galatians 2: 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Glory be to God! The word of god is quick, powerful and sharper than any two-edge sword

Peace be unto you!

[nanajo1]

JESUS SAID....I am the way, the truth and the life....NO MAN comes to the Father but by ME. John 14:6

I didn't say it.....so don't get ticked at me. Either Jesus is God and He is truth or he is a liar. That is something you need to decide.

Tessy you were not being attacked. But as You said yourself, you need to decided what is a lie and what is the truth.
In the eyes of god wea re too treat all who are on this earth equal. As you also quoted, No man comes to the father but by me!
That means all men, women and children despite their religion, if they believe in god and jesus then they will pass. And those who also believe in a goddess or what ever the Indians think of as their higher power will also pass

If you read the bible closely instead of quoting it, each bible is different, as has been pointed out, all religions have their own intrepretation, WHY? Because Not one of us were there at the time of creation, the bible was written by men over time to bring some form of rules and regulation to what people do or perceive. w
Will the man who believes in the christian god get into heaven and the catholic be left behind, NO. Will the Jew, or the Menonite, NO. No one religion is any beter than the other that is all I was saying. As I was also trying to state, if we all folled in gods foot steps, we would not be judgmental of others because of their beliefs. THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING and I am sorry that you feel that I was attacking you sweety. I love all man, woman and child, despite their beliefs, likes, dislikes, color or creed.

[jayb09]

Retroia your statement surprise me "It may be a command- like loving your neighbor- but not loving a neighbor will not condemn you either." That is surprising statement because it completely contradicts the word of God. As servants of God we are supposed to abide by the scriputures. We are supposed to abide by God's commandments but you are stating that we don't

Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Ephesians 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

There is punishment written in the scriptures for not obeying his commandment

Isaiah 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! Then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea

Amos 2:4 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments


Romans 3:4 says: "Let God be true and every man a liar."



I have more from the Bible if you need more proof that salvation is not about baptism

[jayb09]

I also meant to address your statement Retroia when you said "I have more from the Bible if you need more proof that salvation is not about baptism". I am actually still waiting for the proof because thus far I have not seen any proof but that baptism is a requirement

[ActionJackson]

Tessy 777 and Retroia. It is certainly not my intention to offend. I often find that when people speak on about different things in the bible that some may not agree with it causes strife and that certainly is not my intention. As stated previously, we agree to disagree. I know that the Lord is soon to come and I am trying to make my calling and election sure.
I leave you with a scripture that I read last night

Bear in mind that I have never given you something made up by man but everything I have provided is in the scriptures. You both stated you are saved because you believed if I am not mistaken. I leave you with this scriputure

Galation 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Galations 2:17E ven so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Galations 2: 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Glory be to God!! The word of god is quick, powerful and sharper than any two-edge sword

Peace be unto you!

Very good verses but they are all from James rather than Galatians. I've already used these but to no avail... maybe coming from you, the seed will be planted. God bless.

[Retrotia]

Jayb09,

I think you didn't read the link with my post. Who are you to judge now? About loving neighbors? It means doing them no harm.

This is my last post about faith is what's required for salvation. I won't engage in foolish arguments.
Peace Brother!

John 6:35-51 (New International Version)
35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

[Lacey5765]

I like this example of Grace and works. “One day, a group of small boys were swimming. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, they were learning to swim; for none could take more than a few strokes. Just below them a short distance down the stream was a treacherous hole much beyond their depth. Into this, either through bravado or accident, one daring youngster either plunged or fell. He became helpless to save himself; and for a moment his companions were powerless to aid him. Fortunately, one with presence of mind and quick action, jerked a long stick from a willow fence and held one end of it toward the drowning lad. The latter grasped it, held on tightly, and was saved.

“All the boys declared that the venturesome lad owed his life to the boy who furnished the means of rescue.”

Jesus is like the rescuer and his atonement is like the stick. Jesus offers us the Atonement as the way to receive forgiveness. When we repent, we reach out to accept the Atonement just as the drowning boy reached out to grasp the stick. If we accept the Atonement by repenting, we will be forgiven and not have to continue suffering for our sins. We can learn from our mistakes and continue to progress. We will be stronger and wiser if we have overcome our faults and have learned from our experiences.

There are those who claim that no one will sink and be lost if he will look to Jesus on the shore and say, 'I believe.' There are others who declare that every one must by his own efforts swim to the shore or be lost forever. The real truth is that both of these extreme views are incorrect. Christ redeemed all men from death which was brought upon them through no act of theirs, but He will not save men from their personal transgressions who will put forth no effort themselves, any more than the young rescuer on the river bank could have saved the drowning lad if the latter had not seized the means provided him.

Neither can man save himself without accepting the means provided by Christ for man's salvation.”

[ActionJackson]

Jayb09,

This is my last post about faith is what's required for salvation. I won't engage in foolish arguments.
."

I don't believe that seeking the truth and discussing God's Word is foolish but that's just may opinion. I do understand the feeling you're experiencing. I had no idea until I joined this forum just how disjointed the Christian community really is. First of all, I rarely find two people who read from the same "versions" of the Bible so it's almost impossible to share ideas when the various versions spin God's Word in so many directions. Then, I am amazed at how much disdain for the Old Testament there is within the Christian community. I am literally shocked. I thought that all Christians loved the Whole Testament of God but every time I speak of God's word, some 3rd grader spits out this Buddhist chant "yeah, but that's the Old Testament, yeah, but that's the Old Testament," etc. It's literally heartbreaking to realize just how much people hate the "Old" Word of God. Most don't seem to realize that Christ and the Apostles quoted from the Old Testament all the time. Anyway, see you.

[Marily]

We should correct each other out of love, I was almost certain that you are going to bite off AJ's head. If someone disagree with you concerning the bible, the best thing you can do for that person is to pray for them ;)

[jayb09]

Hi Retroia,

I am certainly not trying to argue with you nor am I casting judgment upon you. You made a statement that I knew was inaccurate according to the scriptures. I did not express any of my own opinion but showed you what it said in the scriputures. Your statement was that not obeying the commandments does not condemn you and according to the bible, that is completely untrue. Please don't take offense.

[jayb09]

Hi Retoia,

I read the article you left the link too. Quite honestly, I am a little confused because the article seems to go on about how the author does not believe that anyone has to be baptized to be saved but near the end of the article says " Yes, I believe one should be baptized in obedience to Jesus' command. " That's a direct quote. So if Jesus said it and the author admits ,it how does anyone feel that they should not comply because you don't have to obey all of God's commandments? I'm confused as to what the writer is actually trying to convey and quite honestly. He believes in it but yet he doesn't