[Wondergirl]

He didn't make those statements. Weren't part of His thinking process. Were the invention of mortals.

[jlisenbe]

He didn't make those statements.

You're grasping at straws.

Were the invention of mortals.

There is simply no good reason to believe that. The truth is that you only accept what agrees with your own ideas. That's why I am concerned for you. You seem to have a fantasy Jesus, one invented in your own mind and one over which you can exert control. But there is no salvation in a fantasy, and there is no Jesus who is subject to our own whims. The only Jesus is the one of whom we read in the Bible, and every word of it is to be received and believed.

[Wondergirl]

Hope to see you in heaven!

[dwashbur]

He knows humans don't want to love and be loved out of fear of hellfire, because it's required.

"We love, because he first loved us."

[jlisenbe]

If we can accept that quote as being reliable, and that has been far from certain, then I would imagine we can all agree with that idea.

He knows humans don't want to love and be loved out of fear of hellfire, because it's required.

I'm always very suspicious of anyone who claims to know what Jesus "knows", and yet is unwilling to accept the testimony of the NT.

[Wondergirl]

I'm always very suspicious of anyone who claims to know what Jesus "knows", and yet is unwilling to accept the testimony of the NT.

How many times has the NT been translated, parts rewritten, words changed and added and deleted....

[jlisenbe]

That's fine if you want to make that point, but it destroys your ability to use what would be, in your view, an unreliable NT to support your ideas. It's either reliable or it isn't. Make up your mind.

[Wondergirl]

That's fine if you want to make that point, but it destroys your ability to use what would be, in your view, an unreliable NT to support your ideas. It's either reliable or it isn't. Make up your mind.

All NTs fall into that category. Unfortunately, we don't have the complete original. And even then, you and I both know how unreliable notes and transcriptions and copies can be.

[jlisenbe]

OK. So you claim it is unreliable, which makes me wonder how you can claim to know what Jesus "knows", or why you bother to quote from the NT. That makes no sense. Or why didn't you object when DW used a direct quote from that thoroughly unreliable NT ("We love, because he first loved us.")? For that matter, why didn't you object when YOU quoted from the NT?

[Wondergirl]

I said a very similar quote, "love one another." Jesus was (and is still) all about loving ourselves just as He loves us -- so then we can love others. He's shown me throughout my life how true that is.

[jlisenbe]

Except that you have no way, in your approach, of being able to know that since you consider the accounts of his life and words to be unreliable. Thus we have no reliable way, in your view, of being able to say what, "Jesus was (and still is)". Well, unless we are to send people to you and consider you authoritative. Sorry, but that is not even close to being an option. So by your system, we are reduced to personal opinion, and therefore we have nothing.

[Wondergirl]

Love one another.

[jlisenbe]

So by your system, we are reduced to personal opinion, and therefore we have nothing.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Wondergirl]

"We love because He first loved us."

Unfortunately, some people are more difficult to love than others are. God, give us the strength to show love to everyone.

[jlisenbe]

Is that your opinion, or is it an authoritative statement from your utterly unreliable NT?

I have finally, after much effort, gotten you to the place where you have acknowledged that you do not receive the NT as the source of your "truth". It's a sad place for you to be, for you have no greater authority than your own ideas, but it is what it is. Jesus said whatever happens to agree with your own opinions which were birthed somewhere outside of the Bible. A day is coming when we will find out if the authors of the NT are correct, or if WG is correct. It will not be both.

[Wondergirl]

The NT authors didn't believe in loving one another?

[jlisenbe]

According to you, we can’t know what they believed.

[Wondergirl]

Which NT?

[jlisenbe]

Again, from your point of view it makes no difference. They are all produced from, according to you, an unreliable source.

[Wondergirl]

From many, many sources, translations....