[smoothy]

Smoothy, I respect you a lot. I know who you are and what you have been through. It is because of that I want to say to nut up and get over it. CaCa happens and you think the faith did it. It didn't. People did it. A organization who was using gurellia tactics to kill as many people as possible. The reasoning they used was from a book and only that. It is asinine to assume that a faith did this. You might not be a bigger person but you're a wiser person. You know better.

Fact is THEY haven't gotten over anything for 1,600 years and the oppression they practice against this world continues to this very day.

If it was a one time event or was even limited in scope to several in the past that would be different... the fact is it continues on every continent on earth and even here in the USA... ( and it does happen far more often that you will ever see on a biased media).

If you ignore an ongoing threat... don't be surprised when that threat becomes a reality.

If there were no threats...then why exactly do we have a Dept of Homeland security. We didn't need one before.

I actually do know the answer to that...I wonder how many other people do too.

I'd rather be alive and safe than politically correct.

[talaniman]

Fact is MANY Muslims are as paranoid about the radical nut jobs as you are, and with good reason since in fact they have killed, and oppressed more of their own than they have others.

They are NUTS and so are their sheep followers. It's sad my friend, that as your friend you allow them to make you so paranoid, which is their whole strategy to begin with. At least with you they have WON! A man of your intellect and experience should know that, so why do you feed your own hate and fear?

[smoothy]

Fact is MANY Muslims are as paranoid about the radical nut jobs as you are, and with good reason since in fact they have killed, and oppressed more of their own than they have others.

They are NUTS and so are their sheep followers. It's sad my friend, that as your friend you allow them to make you so paranoid, which is their whole strategy to begin with. At least with you they have WON! A man of your intellect and experience should know that, so why do you feed your own hate and fear?

Its not paranoia when they actually ARE out to get you... and they have openly said this ad nauseum. If you had any idea how many terrorist plots the government has discovered and stopped before they could be carried out you would see my point. One out of every 50 actually are reported on the news. Its far more common than most people know.

They don't make me paranoid... they give me reason to not trust their words on motives in general as a group. Which means they aren't flying under the radar for those smart enough to be watching. And they ARE on the Radar for the Government. Does that make them paranoid too?

Tell that to the Coptic Christians, the Jews and every other religious group on earth that are being systematically persecuted and singled out by the Muslims on the planet that they are just being paranoid too.

Muslims aren't the victim class....they are the perpetrators. They have managed to dupe a lot of people.

[ScottGem]

Its not paranoia when they actually ARE out to get you... and they have openly said this ad nauseum. If you had any idea how many terrorist plots the government has discovered and stopped before they could be carried out you would see my point. One out of every 50 actually are reported on the news. Its far more common than most people know.

They don't make me paranoid... they give me reason to not trust their words on motives in general as a group. Which means they aren't flying under the radar for those smart enough to be watching. And they ARE on the Radar for the Government. Does that make them paranoid too?

Muslims aren't the victim class....they are the perpetrators. They have managed to dupe a lot of people.

I'm sorry, but I can't abide painting an entire group with the same brush. This is what you are doing. I'm in total agreement with you that a large number of Muslims are Islamic extremists bent on having things their own way and to them any infidel life is of no consequence. No one is arguing that point.

But that doesn't mean that every Muslim feels that way. It doesn't mean that every Muslim is hell bent of ridding the world of the infidels. You can't damn and entire religion because of the actions of extremist factions.

[cdad]

From what I can find in a quick search, there are more than a half million Muslims in this area. A Muslim school is a few blocks from me, and a pre-K thru gr. 12 school and prayer center (non-profit Islamic Foundation, since 1974) is in the suburb east of me. Many Muslim professionals live in nearby Oak Brook, McDonald's and Beanie Baby world headquarters.

You might find this list interesting -- Chicago Mosques

You might find this interesting.


EEOC wins $240,000 damages for Muslim truckers fired for not delivering beer




http://pamelageller.com/2015/10/illi...-alcohol.html/

[cdad]

I'm sorry, but I can't abide painting an entire group with the same brush. This is what you are doing. I'm in total agreement with you that a large number of Muslims are Islamic extremists bent on having things their own way and to them any infidel life is of no consequence. No one is arguing that point.

But that doesn't mean that every Muslim feels that way. It doesn't mean that every Muslim is hell bent of ridding the world of the infidels. You can't damn and entire religion because of the actions of extremist factions.

I can understand his position because of what the community is NOT doing. You dont seem to hear the outcry from the community over the attrocities. What you hear is a give me more attitude. Many left the places they were in because of oppression and to attempt to live in peace. But they are starting the cycle all over again.

Just look at the news and some of the headlines as to how much leeway they are being given as a group that put them in a protected class of citizen.

Oklahoma Police Captain Sues Police Department over Forced Mosque Attendance | Pamela Geller


Is this what the new American way has come to? The lawsuit lottery ?

[Wondergirl]

You might find this interesting.


EEOC wins $240,000 damages for Muslim truckers fired for not delivering beer




Illinois: Two Muslim truck drivers awarded $240,000 for refusing to deliver alcohol | Pamela Geller

That was Downstate, 100 miles away or so, maybe more.

[smoothy]

I'm sorry, but I can't abide painting an entire group with the same brush. This is what you are doing. I'm in total agreement with you that a large number of Muslims are Islamic extremists bent on having things their own way and to them any infidel life is of no consequence. No one is arguing that point.

But that doesn't mean that every Muslim feels that way. It doesn't mean that every Muslim is hell bent of ridding the world of the infidels. You can't damn and entire religion because of the actions of extremist factions.

Spend enough time around the organizations as I have the last 34 years... and you learn to NEVER ignore a threat from any group that has a significant enough amount of people bent on murder and mass destruction.

Would you be as forgiving of the White supremacist movement for example, or Biker gangs. The same arguments can be made for them. Every one of them aren't bad people with evil intent either... but what does that change, nothing, because there are enough that are. Or pick any other number of groups that has an above average number of troublemakers in them.

How many Jews do Muslim charities aid every year? How many Buddhists? How many Christians? Its actually prohibited to aid non-Muslims. Real nice bunch.

Like I said... we aren't talking dozens or even hundreds... we are talking millions. And millions is a significant threat no matter WHAT group they are part of.

And I'll trust the findings of Government agencies that are tasked with keeping us safe rather than any other propaganda from unknown or unproven sources.

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am... I have plenty of justification. I have plenty of facts to back it up.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise... so kindly don't try and change how I think. Its going to go no place and will only get both of us upset.

Spend most of your adult life working around where I have... you would think differently about a lot of things as well.

Nowhere did I say EVERY Muslim feels that way. Those were your words.

[catonsville]

"Once you are dead it doesn't matter, while you are alive Open your Eyes and Ears".

[ScottGem]

Would you be as forgiving of the White supremacist movement for example, or Biker gangs. .

That is actually a good example. No I wouldn't be forgiving of White supremacists because their whole credo is racist. On the other hand there are some biker "gangs" that actually do a lot of good work. So I would be disinclined to condemn all biker gangs.

I'm not sure if I'm getting through here. Again, no one denies that islamic extremist are a danger to the world. No one denies that they need to be watched (even spied on). But you can't condemn all who follow the Muslim faith because of the actions of extremists just as you can't condemn all biker gangs because some (even many) are lawless.

If that's not what you are doing, then I'm sorry, but that's not the message I am getting from your posts in this thread.

[smoothy]

I actually know a few self proclaimed white Supremacists... one was even once a Imperial Wizard (known him my whole life in fact)... and none of them are the monsters the propaganda make them to be. And I'd known enough Bikers... ( and by that I mean 1%ers in clubs people associate with Bikers) and spent enough time around them to know that THEY aren't the monsters the media make them out to be. Well except for a few clubs that really are. And like I said.. these were the ones that have the reputation. Can say the same about the Mafia too (knew a couple Dons , they are both dead now and their families for decades).

You will find similar crimes or worse being committed in most inner city housing projects... Yet they aren't demonized by the press as universally.

And when you have MILLIONS in any specific group sympathizing or even actively being the radical element. You don't ignore any of them... because as was mentioned by others... you don't see very much outrage in their communities because they would rather protect their own... and that makes them accomplices. Just as it does anyone else that knows of crimes and remains silent.

Yeah... I didn't have a sheltered and charmed life in my early adulthood. I even had offerings by people high enough level to participate in certain "activities" made famous in "Miami Vice" that despite the lure of seriously big money at a time I desperately needed... common sense and my moral compass prevailed and made me take the hard path, and no I don't regret it.

And before you say it....the distaste and apathy towards other religions taught and practiced by the Muslims...is no different than what is preached by the Klan, Louis Farrakhan, La Raza, the Muslim Brotherhood or a number of other groups.

Just that some are embraced by the Political correctness people which makes them no different.

And my rather large circle of friends is probably MORE diverse than most peoples is. Some of them Muslims that have actually earned my trust over the years I've known them (Afghan, Iranian, Pakistani, Somali, Eritrea and a couple others) ...and no what I went through is no secret to them. Nor my feelings towards people that sympathize with that element. Do they have my absolute trust? Nope....but then nobody but my immediate family has that.

[talaniman]

Out of more than a billion Muslims, you let a million influence you? Your math is lousy.

[smoothy]

Out of more than a billion Muslims, you let a million influence you? Your math is lousy.

My Math is damn good... How many did it take for 9/11, Fort Hood, ETC.

You might live in some remote place that is the last place that would be a target...but many of us live or work in and around prime targets...or at least within the blast zone.

[Wondergirl]

My Math is damn good... How many did it take for 9/11, Fort Hood, ETC.

You might live in some remote place that is the last place that would be a target...but many of us live or work in and around prime targets...or at least within the blast zone.

I live in a prime blast zone and am not at all worried. Like I said, the ones around here have library cards -- and are often second- and third-generation Muslims.

[smoothy]

I live in a prime blast zone and am not at all worried. Like I said, the ones around here have library cards -- and are often second- and third-generation Muslims.

And if you watch the news... and follow government security alerts... you also know that education or being born here is not a deterrent to being radicalized as many have done it and went to kill people. Many have been caught trying here and abroad... ALL should be jailed and have their citizenship revoked for it.

[Wondergirl]

And if you watch the news... and follow government security alerts... you also know that education or being born here is not a deterrent to being radicalized as many have done it and went to kill people. Many have been caught trying here and abroad... ALL should be jailed and have their citizenship revoked for it.

But they're given library cards and sent on their way?

[paraclete]

?? Yes a library card is some circles is a proof of orthodoxy or is it citizenship and what were they reading at the library, how to build a bomb?

[Wondergirl]

R

?? Yes a library card is some circles is a proof of orthodoxy or is it citizenship and what were they reading at the library, how to build a bomb?

Library employees cannot give patron information to law enforcement (or anyone else) without a court order.

[Fr_Chuck]

Worries me some, that smoothy and I traveled in some of the same circles. When I was in South Carolina, I was friends with many of the KKK (they had a regional headquarters there) Many of my fellow workers belonged.

And as noted, from the ones I knew, they were not as evil as I see presented and never burned a cross in my yard, (although they did on their own property during organized protests.) (still not sure why a cross)

As smoothy in my time in Arizona, I need some of the Bikers, and was at some of their bars a few times. Did not prefer, their life style, but normally they were not as bad as depicted. (of course a few were)

And I knew some of the mafia, knew the head from New Jersey and sat at the table with many of the family members at one time.

I knew many mercenaries, from my days in SE Asia and South America, and while yes, some may be worst, than thought of, most were just ex soldiers looking for money

Here in China, I know 100's of Muslims, My best friend in Zhengzhou is Muslim. I shop at Muslim shops every day, eat at Muslim stores every week.
But I am still scared of them every day.

I was less than 10 feet from a suicide bomber, last year in Dali, where the police got him before he caught without setting off his bomb. Every month or two, I walk though the train station, where 3 years ago, Muslim terrorist, killed several people in an attack there. I visit locations and cities, that have several attacks each year.

So, it is easy not to be scared or concerned, when you live in a place where nothing is currently happening. But if a library was bombed once month, someone in North America, would you feel safe today?

[talaniman]

There are no safe places in the world, and while some are safer than others, good people can fear bad things happening to them, and bad things do indeed happen to good people. Many Muslim I know are just as afraid as anyone else of getting caught up in bad things from bad people.

It's not Muslims burning black churches, or shooting up classrooms, and if you can understand bikers, and criminals, then understand your fellow human who happens to be Muslim. To elevate one over another is illogical, and a product of FEAR bringing out the prejudice in us.