[paraclete]

Right, of course if you are afraid, you can discount the missiles, but inevietably you will have to face the threat yourselves

[tomder55]

You want a missle you pay full price. There is no fear discount.

You are making the wrong argument . What you should be asking is why 10's of thousands of American troops are still based in western Europe.

The horse is already out of the barn.. We patrol the world with our fleet keeping the sea lanes open... we don't do it for a fee.

[paraclete]

Then why do you do it?

[excon]

Hello again,

I need some right wing clarity, IF that's possible... We are NOW doing some background checks.. They appear to WORK, in that, there HAVE been some exconvicts who were CAUGHT trying to buy guns, and were sent packing.. But, because they WEREN'T prosecuted, the right wing doesn't want to expand the process..

Let me say that again. The background checks WORKED, but because the cops won't go after the guys who COULDN'T buy guns, we shouldn't prevent MORE bad guys from buying guns...

Have I got that about right??

excon

[tomder55]

There's no other nation that will do it. Your nation is increasing relying on oil imports ;and yet you fail to see the importance of having free access though choke points like the Strait of Malacca . Maybe the Chinese fleet will keep the vital sea lanes in your backyard open for you.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again,

I need some right wing clarity, IF that's possible... We are NOW doing some background checks.. They appear to WORK, in that, there HAVE been some exconvicts who were CAUGHT trying to buy guns, and were sent packing.. But, because they WEREN'T prosecuted, the right wing doesn't want to expand the process..

Lemme say that again. The background checks WORKED, but because the cops won't go after the guys who COULDN'T buy guns, we shouldn't prevent MORE bad guys from buying guns...

Have I got that about right???

excon

I've addressed the background check bill already, it could make felons out of anyone going on vacation for more than 7 days or loaning a gun to a buddy. Sorry, but I'm not in favor of more stupid liberal legislation.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Those are red herrings, or straw men. I NEVER know the difference...

But, if we can assume for a moment, that the FINAL version of the bill WON'T include the provisions you object to, but will SIMPLY be a background check on ALL gun SALES, to prevent bad guys from getting guns, would you be in favor?

excon

[speechlesstx]

I'm still not tom but if the Obamacare bill is any indication no, I don't trust Democrats to put out a clean bill of any sort.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve/tom:

Can you not answer my question? Are you afraid you'll look like a gun NUT if you do?? It's a BACKGROUND check.. I'd FAIL it. It'll STOP people like me from getting guns... Isn't that GOOD??

I KNOW you think we're ALL members of the excon club, so we have EASY access to all the guns we want. So, OF COURSE, we'll NEVER buy our guns at a gun show...

Really?

excon

[tomder55]

It is a federal felony to be engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms and ammunition without having federal firearm dealers license.

It is a crime for a federally licensed dealer to sell a gun without doing a background check. This applies to all dealers, including at retail stores (like Walmart), gun shows, flea markets, or anywhere else.

It is a federal felony to sell, trade, give, lend, rent, or transfer a gun to a person you know or should have known is not legally allowed to own, purchase, or possess a firearm. The penalty for selling a gun to a person who is a criminal, mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or an alcohol or drug abuser is a 10-year federal felony.

It is even a federal felony to submit false information on a background check form for the purpose of purchasing a firearm. According to a 2012 report to the Department of Justice (DOJ), more than 72,000 people were turned down on a gun purchase in 2010 because they didn't pass the background check. Only 44 of those cases were prosecuted.

Gun Control Policy: Universal Background Checks Aren't the Cure-all People Think They Are

Seems there are already suitable laws in place. This rush to make legislation is a feel good bromide . Try enforcing the laws already on the books.

[excon]

Hello again, tom/Steve:

Seems there are already suitable laws in place. Try enforcing the laws already on the books.

Couple things.

If I can go buy a gun at a gun show THIS WEEKEND, and I can, it would seem to ME that that there AREN'T suitable laws in place.. To ME, trying to STOP real BAD guys from BUYING guns IS pretty suitable... But, that's just me.

Secondarily, because the cops WON'T prosecute excons who LIED on a piece of paper, but were nonetheless PREVENTED from buying a gun, we shouldn't do background checks at gun shows??

That makes absolutely NO sense to me.

Excon

[tomder55]

From the link... It is a crime for a federally licensed dealer to sell a gun without doing a background check. This applies to all dealers, including at retail stores (like Walmart), gun shows, flea markets, or anywhere else.

Edit... yes there should be presecutions. I already said the existing laws should be enforced

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Is that more red herrings, or more straw men? And, why can't you answer my question? You're NOT dumb. You KNOW that I can buy ANY gun I want from PRIVATE sellers who GO to gun shows to SELL their guns. They do that ALL across this great country of ours, even in NY..

You either KNOW that, or you're afraid if you tell the truth, even you, yourself, will think you're a gun nut.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve/tom:

Can you not answer my question? Are you afraid you'll look like a gun NUT if you do??? It's a BACKGROUND check.. I'd FAIL it. It'll STOP people like me from getting guns... Isn't that GOOD???

I KNOW you think we're ALL members of the excon club, so we have EASY access to all the guns we want. So, OF COURSE, we'll NEVER buy our guns at a gun show...

Really?

excon

What Steve said.

[excon]

Hello again,

Just this morning, we've had page after page of obfuscation from my right wing friends. Either they have NO idea what I'm talking about or they're AVOIDING the question. Since I have NEVER known Steve/tom to be LACKING in facts, I must conclude they're AVOIDING the question.

We ALL know why. In the real world, they KNOW they're wrong.

excon

[speechlesstx]

There's no obfuscation. We already have laws in place and the one proposed is BAD, I oppose it. That's pretty damn clear.

[tomder55]

Restricting private sales at gun shows is not the same thing as universal backround checks. Also you are in denial if you think that will prevent any criminal from obtaining a gun illegally . Face it ;all the laws proposed are to restrict law abiding people from guns .
The laws are already in the books... if enforced... Here is the key part of the post
According to a 2012 report to the Department of Justice (DOJ), more than 72,000 people were turned down on a gun purchase in 2010 because they didn't pass the background check. Only 44 of those cases were prosecuted.

[Wondergirl]

According to a 2012 report to the Department of Justice (DOJ), more than 72,000 people were turned down on a gun purchase in 2010 because they didn't pass the background check. Only 44 of those cases were prosecuted.

Why did 72,000 not pass? Maybe the world is safer because of that, despite no prosecutions came about.

[talaniman]

Why would you prosecute someone that failed a background check unless other factors were involved? I know of no law that says a failure to pass is illegal in of itself.

[tomder55]

So you would agree that we have backround checks in place already. Like I said... all the stuff going on is just bromides. It will have no impact.