[speechlesstx]

Maybe it hasn't been an issue lately, but many a zip gun has been made and used against others. Homemade weapons are more sophisticated now, but still easily doable as in the past.

[smoothy]

Um, "homemade" does not necessarily mean with a 3D printer. People have used "homemade" guns for a long, long time and yes, to commit crimes.

If they lived in the USA they would have voted for Obama... reality and facts mean nothing to them. THey believe what they want to believe... and don't care what others have actuially said.

And they still haven't shown where I said 3d printed guns were used in crimes... and they can't... because I never said it.

And like you said... homemade guns have been used for a very, very long time... they were called a "zip gun" in the days before I was born.

They can Google it up themselves... its only two words.

And they are likely used far more often than are publicly disclosed... because they can be broken back down to parts that would never appear to be related to such an assembly.

Even the average inner city liberal has the limited brainpower required to make such a device. You don't have to be an MIT graduate.

If they can't look it up for themselves I'm not going to show them how to do it.

[smoothy]

Apparently that's hasn't an issue for a long, long time? Why is it allowed? Likely because very. very few people have actually done this.

Still waiting for smoothy to wow me with his Google finds.

It you are a fraction of the mental giant you think you are... you can type those two three letter words into Google.

You find LOTS of results... even Utube videos on page ONE of the results. I'm sure you can handle that. Unless of course Canada censors the Internet like China does.

Funny how I figured out how to do that as a teenager in the mid 1970's without the Internet... or books... or someone to show me how... and yet even with the internet... it escapes your ability to understand how it can be done.

[NeedKarma]

Let me google that for you

Ok I see one instance in 1982. Anything else I'm missing?

and yet even with the internet... it escapes your ability to understand how it can be done.

I keep forgetting how incredibly amazing you are... but it's OK, you remind us continuously. :D

[smoothy]

I keep forgetting how incredibly amazing you are ... but it's ok, you remind us continuously. :D

Do you also wonder what people did in the days before cell phones when they got a flat tire?

You are aware cars and trucks come with spare tires... jacks and lug wrenches? And most people actually know how to change a flat without having to call someone else to do it for them.

Its amazing that you think its so incredibly difficult to do this stuff.

[paraclete]

Do you also wonder what people did in the days before cell phones when they got a flat tire?

You are aware cars and trucks come with spare tires....jacks and lug wrenches? And most people actually know how to change a flat without having to call someone else to do it for them.

Its amazing that you think its so incredibly difficult to do this stuff.

Smoothy you speak of another world, another time, before we became too lazy and uneducated to do meniel tasks for ourselves. Today if you don't have satnav you don't know where you are, I've never used one, If you don't have internet access on your mobile you melt down into a quivering wreck unable to get a Facebook or twitter fix, I don't access the web on my mobile, but I observe the mess it has made of the lives of my teenage grandchildren. The present generation doesn't understand how it has been setup for a huge fall

[smoothy]

Smoothy you speak of another world, another time, before we became too lazy and uneducated to do meniel tasks for ourselves. Today if you don't have satnav you don't know where you are, I've never used one, If you don't have internet access on your mobile you melt down into a quivering wreck unable to get a facebook or twitter fix, I don't access the web on my mobile, but I observe the mess it has made of the lives of my teenage grandchildren. The present generation doesn't understand how it has been setup for a huge fall

Trust me... every week I see a fairly new vehicle, many of them Trucks and SUV's abandoned on the side of the road with a single flat tire... with perfectly good spares visibly hanging from under them. And I shake my head.

Hell I knew one guy who called a tow truck when he got a flat in a company truck... of course he called me AFTER he called the tow company... said he couldn't find the jack... I asked him if he looked under the passenger seat from the passenger door? Got a damn... that's where it was from him. Keep in mind I never used it and I was just guessing because I knew it had one someplace... my truck has the jack in the engine bay of all places..

My mom had to learn to change a flat tire before they would let her get a license to drive.

I know its not just a USA thing.. because I see it even more often in Italy... people not knowing how to do anything if its not part of their job.

Brother-in-law is a case in point... we have similar backgrounds and a year different in age... Both of us highly skilled in Electronics and Communications. Literally between the both of us we could cover almost everything.

But he couldn't get his car started for an entire month one year when I happened to go there on vacation... (it needed a tuneup) I told him to put plugs, points, condenser and wires on it... he then said now it doesn't run at all... so I went to take a look at it... asked him what he gapped the points at? He asked they have to be adjusted?

Sure enough they were so far off they weren't even opening and closing... asked him if he had feeler gauges... nope... asked him if he had a book of matches... luckily he did... used the matchbook cover to set the gap, and it fired right up... ran smooth as silk (its not perfect but very close to the right gap). He looked at me and asked how I knew how to do that... I could only ask how could you NOT know? Yes this was an older car... a real POS Fiat 127.

He'll give me 50% of his business if I ever decide to move over there full time and work with him... I've taught him how to do a LOT of things over the years that was outside of his job field.

[paraclete]

Smoothy

I really don't understand this idea that everyone should drive a truck, is it just the snow and ice you have to contend with? There is no point in driving a vehicle where the tyres are so heavy you have difficulty lifting them into place or your can't do some basic maintenance on..

Modern vehicles don't need feeler guages smoothy, they are throwaway after 100,000 miles at best, if you can't last that long without major repairs, where are you

[smoothy]

Smoothy

I really don't understand this idea that everyone should drive a truck, is it just the snow and ice you have to contend with? there is no point in driving a vehicle where the tyres are so heavy you have difficulty lifting them into place or your can't do some basic maintenance on..

Modern vehicles don't need feeler guages smoothy, they are throwaway after 100,000 miles at best, if you can't last that long without major repairs, where are you

Any modern car that's worn out at 100K miles is a piece of junk these days... though 20+ years ago that really was fairly common.

Like I said it was an older car and this was years ago... the Fiat 127 was from the mid 1970's and it was about 20 some years old at the time I dealt with it.

And as far as why everyone thinks they need a truck or a huge SUV? Your guess is as good as mine... most of them don't NEED a truck. Likely just men and women compensating for something.

One truck I drive is a company owned truck... they need me to to get anything I need... anywhere I need to be, in any weather we might have.

My personal truck gets used less than a thousand miles a year... and all of that when I am hauling something big. The rest of the time I drive one of my cars because its cheaper and more comfortable.. or during really bad weather (heavy snow or ice) where my car would likely have problems... which is really fairly rare. My employer NEVER closes for inclimate weather.

[talaniman]

America is full of Do It Yourselfers. Many of us have skills and just love the doing, and all the money we save. That's not going to change, nor are the ones who use their skills for bad ever going to go away. It's the law abiding among us that have to keep the criminals and predators in check. Unless we are united in that effort, the bad guys have the advantage since no rules or laws will stop them from doing what they do for whatever reason.

Doesn't really matter what our talking points and idealogical leanings are, we still have to combine our efforts against the bad guys and that's the point. As long as we fight each other they win.

That's just not acceptable. If 91% of the nation agrees on backgound checks for all gun sales, then lets do it and get on with the rest. I have no problem with identifying and prosecuting lawful citizens who buy a bunch of guns for their criminal buddies in the city where they can't get them otherwise.

Now what's wrong with that?

[smoothy]

The problem is they already DO background checks and HAVE required them for a LOT of years now... and there are already laws on the books preventing people who shouldn't have guns from having them... if they would enforce exiting law.

Also the only reason they would want a registry to to know where to go after the guns when enough communist loons get together and decide the Constitution and Bill of Rights mean nothing any longer, which apparently is right now.

People that don't respect the 2nd amendment have no respect for any of the others either.

[cdad]

The problem is they already DO background checks....and there are already laws on the books preventing people who shouldn't have guns from having them....if they would enforce exiting law.

Also the only reason they would want a registry to to know where to go after the guns when enough communist loons get together and decide the Constitution and Bill of Rights mean nothing any longer, which apparently is right now.

People that don't respect the 2nd amendment have no respect for any of the others either.

I think your missing a point here. And Tal is guilty of missing one also. So Im going to try to break it down.

Tal, a straw purchase is illegal already. Most are acquired with a background check being done. It is the activity that takes place after the sale is complete that is the illegal portion where it isn't being addressed by law enforcement. There already are laws to prevent it but criminals don't care much for laws anyway.

Smoothy, What Tal is pointing to is the end of the private hand to hand sale. Many states allow weapons to be exchanged without a FFL or being checked out because it is a private sale. That is what is being called an end to. All sales even private should go through a FFL for a background check. The hope being it will cut down on the number of straw purchases happening today.

[smoothy]

I think your missing a point here. And Tal is guilty of missing one also. So Im going to try to break it down.

Tal, a straw purchase is illegal already. Most are aquired with a background check being done. It is the activity that takes place after the sale is complete that is the illegal portion where it isnt being addressed by law enforcement. There already are laws to prevent it but criminals dont care much for laws anyway.

Smoothy, What Tal is pointing to is the end of the private hand to hand sale. Many states allow weapons to be exchanged without a FFL or being checked out because it is a private sale. That is what is being called an end to. All sales even private should go through a FFL for a background check. The hope being it will cut down on the number of straw purchases happening today.

I oppose that because they are trying to prevent weapons from being handed down to your children or gifted to them... and if they get what they want.. legal weapons would be confiscated.

That coveted 1960s per-forward assist AR-15 you have... no, your son will never get it because a transfer is legally a sale and if they ban them.. you can't sell it to anyone...

And again it's a back door way to find out who has what that they have possessed for decades and in some cases generations.

They have always wanted to know exactly who owned what so they would know what to confiscate and from whom.

They just try to pass it off under different wording all the time.. but it's the same people and its always the same goal.

And strangely enough they are the same people that want the death penalty outlawed.. and want fewer criminals held in jail.

[talaniman]

Most states make it illegal but not even a felony, such as Arizona. But a federal law with stiff federal enforcement, yes even for pawn shops, gets them and there guns off the street.

I agree with the enforcement, and for that you have to have evidence, and nothing like a paper trail that shows wrongdoing to present in a court of law.

Maybe criminals are smarter than the lawmakers. But if 40% of all gun sales are subject to background checks, seems to me that's where I start to close those gaps. Open to suggestions though.

I oppose that because they are trying to prevent weapons from being handed down to your children or gifted to them... and if they get what they want.. legal weapons would be confiscated.

If your son is a nut, or a criminal then of course he shouldn't get his hands on it.

[cdad]

I oppose that because they are trying to prevent weapons from being handed down to your children or gifted to them....and if they get what they want..legal weapons would be confiscated.

That coveted 1960s per-forward assist AR-15 you have.....no, your son will never get it because a transfer is a sale and if they ban them..you can't sell it to anyone....

And again its a back door way to find out who has what that they have possessed for decades and in some cases generations.

Actually it is not. And right now banning anything is not part of what I said. You can still have your checks at the local level without having a national registration. The "feds" don't have anything to do with it other then making sure the paperwork is in order. It can be done.

What is being proposed at least by Tal in the post is that we start somewhere. Start at a point that can be agreed upon and expand from there.


I will throw this one out there. I wouldn't be against a national bullet registration. The difference being that the bullet is tied to a number that goes back to the FFL. And the FFL would be responsible for the collection od 1 fired round and send it off to the ATF national office with a registration number. The feds don't have to know anything unless that bullet is recovered in a crime and then they could contact the FFL holder with a warrant for the information.

That way tracking can take place but no personal identification follows the gun in private hands.

[smoothy]

Actually it is not. And right now banning anything is not part of what I said. You can still have your checks at the local level without having a national registration. The "feds" dont have anything to do with it other then making sure the paperwork is in order. It can be done.

What is being proposed atleast by Tal in the post is that we start somewhere. Start at a point tht can be agreed upon and expand from there.


I will throw this one out there. I wouldnt be against a national bullet registration. The difference being that the bullet is tied to a number that goes back to the FFL. And the FFL would be responsible for the collection od 1 fired round and send it off to the ATF national office with a registration number. The feds dont have to know anything unless that bullet is recovered in a crime and then they could contact the FFL holder with a warrant for the information.

That way tracking can take place but no personal identification follows the gun in private hands.

I am absolutely and utterly opposed to anything the that even appears to be a bullet registry or tax... again its exactly the same means to a common goal.. disarming the American population so an ever increasingly Tyrannical government can take away what few of our rights that remain.

Again.. there is no other excuse for it... Read Rules for radicals... achieve progressively what you can not get in a single action.

All they care about is taking away our RIGHTS one step at a time...

And it's a completely non-negotiable position.

Today they CLAIM its not going to take away guns people would inherit from their parents... by requiring everything to go through a dealer... of course they ignore their feverish attempts to outlaw anything more powerful than a cork gun... because you can not transfer something to a new owner once its been banned... a transfer is a sale... and sales are not grandfathered when ownership changes.

I've got something most people on this forum don't have... almost 3 decades of working in and around government agencies... in ways few people fathom...

I've got every reason to hear BS flying every time a politician opens their mouth publicly. Because I've seen way too much of what they were flapping their gums about unfiltered over the years...

Police publicly claim they don't have quotas for traffic tickets... because those are illegal... do you know any well enough personally to tell you what rubbish that really is?

Do you believe anything much less everything a politician gets on the boob tube pushing?

[talaniman]

The only problem with checks at the local level, is the criminal who is clean locally in one place, but a criminal in another location. I think even the local authorities have to have a national data base for a proper background check.

[cdad]

I am absolutely and utterly opposed to anything the that even appears to be a bullet registry or tax...again its exactly the same means to a common goal..disarming the American population so an ever increasingly Tyrannical government can take away what few of our rights that remain.

Again..there is no other excuse for it.... Read Rules for radicals....achieve progressively what you can not get in a single action.

All they care about is taking away our RIGHTS one step at a time...

And its a completely non-negotiable position.

How is it that the government can take your rights when they have no idea who you are ?

That is the whole point of keeping it local while also covering the national scene.

The only problem with checks at the local level, is the criminal who is clean locally in one place, but a criminal in another location. I think even the local authorities have to have a national data base for a proper background check.

If you are a felon then your in the database already. The local level is a Statewide level not just your town that you live in.

[talaniman]

Great for towns but moving from Texas to South Carolina shouldn't be a way to clean up or hide the past should it?

[cdad]

As far as Arizona law goes on straw purchases I can't find that it is a felony but it carries a severe penalty. 10 years in jail or 250,000 dollar fine.

SW Border Campaign Targets Illegal Gun Purchases


PDF:

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7...-purchases.pdf