[talaniman]

Unbelievable. How does the contract between a citizen and a private company hurt a homeless shelter, orphanage or hospital for that matter?

[speechlesstx]

Exactly, thats the free market.

So you've finally realized it is the employer paying for the contraceptives. Now that we have that out of the way, that's wrong to force the church to violate their beliefs and pay for contraceptives and abortifacients.

[speechlesstx]

Unbelievable. How does the contract between a citizen and a private company hurt a homeless shelter, orphanage or hospital for that matter?

What part of churches closing their ministries rather than violate their conscience do you not get? Is the government ready to take on that load or do you just have no concept of the vast number of people the church serves without costing you a cent?

[NeedKarma]

What part of churches closing their ministries rather than violate their conscience do you not get?

That's a business decision they are allowed to take. When businesses close their doors others often take over.

[speechlesstx]

I think we have talked about the problems of 'contextomy' in another post. I am not saying it is a problem here- but it may well be.

Tut

Here you go:

Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Milligan
6 Apr. 1816Writings 14:466

Whether property alone, and the whole of what each citizen possesses, shall be subject to contribution, or only its surplus after satisfying his first wants, or whether the faculties of body and mind shall contribute also from their annual earnings, is a question to be decided. But, when decided, and the principle settled, it is to be equally and fairly applied to all. To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." If the overgrown wealth of an individual be deemed dangerous to the State, the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it.

[excon]

the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it.

Hello again, Steve:

I'm a Jeffersonian.. The problem we have is figuring out whether taxing the richest people in the land, people who are GETTING richer as we speak, is "extra-taxation"..

Me and Jefferson, say no.

Excon

[talaniman]

The church won't close anything speech, and they haven't after all this time. Why should they? If tribal challenges didn't stop missionaries, then how are a few pills going to do it? Closing hospitals because of insurance companies doesn't make sense either.

Don't offer insurance, pay the church employees the difference, and let them get their own insurance. If the STATE they do business in allows that. 38 do NOT! That was before Obama.

Churches are tax exempt, employees are NOT!

[excon]

What part of churches closing their ministries rather than violate their conscience do you not get?

Hello again, Steve:

The part that they'll ACTUALLY do that.. Bwa, ha ha ha..

excon

[speechlesstx]

That's a business decision they are allowed to take. When businesses close their doors others often take over.

A church is not a business.

[speechlesstx]

The church won't close anything speech, and they haven't after all this time. Why should they? If tribal challenges didn't stop missionaries, then how are a few pills gonna do it? Closing hospitals because of insurance companies doesn't make sense either.

You really should pay more attention, I've proven this wrong on more than one occasion.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

The part that they'll ACTUALLY do that.. Bwa, ha ha ha..

excon

They have done it, they are doing it, they will do it. Unlike the government the church as an institution will do everything in her power to maintain her integrity.

[excon]

A church is not a business.

Hello again, Steve:

Then maybe it shouldn't try to BE a business and expect to be treated like a church..

excon

[excon]

They have done it, they are doing it, Unlike the government the church as an institution will do everything in her power to maintain her integrity.

Hello again, Steve:

Got any links?

Their integrity?? Aren't they NOW paying state taxes on the same thing?? What?? A church doesn't have any integrity when it's being taxed by the STATE?

I didn't know that.

excon

[talaniman]

They have done it, they are doing it, they will do it. Unlike the government the church as an institution will do everything in her power to maintain her integrity.

Including hiding rapists from prosecution. Oh wait that was the Catholic Church, not YOUR church. Sorry.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Then maybe it shouldn't try to BE a business and expect to be treated like a church..

excon

Back to that same, fallacious argument.

[speechlesstx]

Including hiding rapists from prosecution. Oh wait that was the Catholic Church, not YOUR church. Sorry.

No, I'm not Catholic and that must be the new Godwin's Law. Any discussion about the church will inevitably lead to references to pedophile priests. You can do better.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Got any links?

Search my posts, it's there, even on this thread. I'm not going to keep repeating myself because you're too lazy to pay attention.

Their integrity?? Aren't they NOW paying state taxes on the same thing?? What?? A church doesn't have any integrity when it's being taxed by the STATE?

Got any links?

[talaniman]

No, I'm not Catholic and that must be the new Godwin's Law. Any discussion about the church will inevitably lead to references to pedophile priests. You can do better.

Harshness Warning

The church can do better, and victimizing little boys for years isn't a small thing because if they are capable of rape,what else are they capable of. Harboring criminals is NOT integrity.

For a guy who is big on protecting the helpless unborn, you don't have a problem throwing the helpless born under the bus.

If World vision relieves your guilt, go for it. It doesn't relieve you of RESPONSIBILITY!

Those are not references, those are victims of church malfeasance,and criminality!! Worst, a betrayal of trust!!

[speechlesstx]

Harshness Warning

The church can do better, and victimizing little boys for years isn't a small thing because if they are capable of rape,what else are they capable of. Harboring criminals is NOT integrity.

For a guy who is big on protecting the helpless unborn, you don't have a problem throwing the helpless born under the bus.

If World vision relieves your guilt, go for it. It doesn't relieve you of RESPONSIBILITY!

Those are not references, those are victims of church malfeasance,and criminality!!!! Worst, a betrayal of trust!!!!

You should have had a "Pulling sh*t out of my a$$ warning."

Really Tal, enough of your BS assumptions. What part of "No, I'm not Catholic" did you fail to comprehend, and even if I were why in the hell would I defend pedophiles? I don't, I haven't and I won't, so before you EVER accuse me of "throwing the helpless born under the bus" you'd better be d@mn sure you have your facts straight.

[NeedKarma]

What part of "No, I'm not Catholic" did you fail to comprehend, and even if I were why in the hell would I defend pedophiles?

Well it's not just catholics - they get the headlines:
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Wisconsin-based Church Mutual Insurance Co. has 100,000 client churches and has seen a steady filing of about five sexual molestation cases a week for more than a decade, even though its client base has grown.

“It would be incorrect to call it a Catholic problem,” said Church Mutual’s risk control manager, Rick Schaber. “We do not see one denomination above another. It’s equal. It’s also equal among large metropolitan churches and small rural churches.”

Iowa-based Guide One Center for Risk Management, which insures more than 40,000 congregations, also said Catholic churches are not considered a greater risk or charged higher premiums.

“Our claims experience shows this happens evenly across denominations,” said spokeswoman Melanie Stonewall.

So people are just doing what they have learned to do from this Current Events board: find a few crazies and attribute it to a whole group.