[excon]

With this decision I predict we will be back again .

Hello again, tom:

If we WANTED a predictable outcome, we should have INSTALLED a puppet. We DO know how to do that, after all. Instead we thought a democracy might be nice... and that's what happened.

But, whomever made that decision, didn't understand that it takes MORE than an election and a declaration that you ARE a democracy, to actually BECOME one. How did they not know that? It's in the history books..

I shouldn't be surprised. Given that they didn't know starting a war for the WRONG reasons ain't real smart, it's not surprising that they'd get this wrong too.

So, who made these decisions?? The DECIDER himself.

I say again, the war was LOST when we went in.

excon

[tomder55]

We had an agreement with them that all parties in Iraq wanted renewed . Obama wasn't interested in preserving the gains made . So we left .
There is a parallel to this. We had an agreement with the South Vietnamese too. But at the time that the North Vietnamese decide to have a full scale invasion of the South ,the Democrats in Congress decided it would be a good time to abandon them and to renege on that commitment.
At least this time we won't have images of US personel climbing onto roof tops to get out of Dodge.

[excon]

There is a parallel to this.

Hello again, tom:

My point exactly... It's IN the history books. We started that one for the wrong reasons too.. You'd think we'd learn.

excon

PS> (edited) In fact, we were SO wrong about Vietnam we should count ourselves extremely lucky. Vietnam winds up being peaceful and a good trading partner..

I have NO such illusions about Iraq.

[excon]

Hello again,

Let me see.. It took the Iraqi's exactly 10 days after we left to ramp up their war - the war that George W. Bush lost. Massive bombings last night. Maliki ordered his vice presidents arrest... It's going to hell over there...

Who, besides me, is NOT surprised by this news? Who, besides me, thinks the people we left there WITHOUT fighters to protect them, are at risk? Who, besides me, remembers our troops who were massacred in Lebanon?

excon

[smoothy]

Obama lost this war... he's the one that ran away before everything was stabile.

[excon]

he's the one that ran away before everything was stabile.

Hello smoothy:

So, how long should it take the most powerful military the world has ever seen to conquer a backwards nation like Iraq? 10 years isn't enough??

Do you remember Yugoslavia? Since the end of WWII, that country WAS a civil war waiting to happen. Tito was able to keep a lid on it. After he died, nobody was surprised that civil war erupted.

Since the end of WWII, Iraq WAS a civil war waiting to happen. Saddam was able to keep a lid on it. So were we, kind of. After we left nobody is surprised that civil war is erupting. Ok, maybe YOU'RE surprised.

excon

[tomder55]

Interesting example Yugoslavia. You do realize that NATO including US troops are still in the Balkans... that despite gains ,the whole thing could collapse with NATO abandonment ?
Funny that I hear no objections to our continued presence there .
Perhaps if we had bugged out a year or 2 after relative peace those bombs in Baghdad would've been going off in the streets of Sarajevo.
Interesting how you seem to favor the strongman leader in some nations ,and favor their removal in other similar ones.

[talaniman]

When asked to leave, you leave. When asked to help, you help. When its time to come home and paint your own house, you go home and fix your own house. Last I checked many of the Balkan countries are part of Nato, or the European union, and Kosovo is the only country still under UN protection.

Lets be real, and let the Iraqis do there own thing and figure it out for themselves. Its not like they are the first country to have a civil war before the unite under one nation. That's there right under self determination. No different than what's going on all over the Persian Gulf, and what has gone on here.

[smoothy]

Hello smoothy:

So, how long should it take the most powerful military the world has ever seen to conquer a backwards nation like Iraq? 10 years isn't enough???

Do you remember Yugoslavia? Since the end of WWII, that country WAS a civil war waiting to happen. Tito was able to keep a lid on it. After he died, nobody was surprised that civil war erupted.

Since the end of WWII, Iraq WAS a civil war waiting to happen. Saddam was able to keep a lid on it. So were we, kinda. After we left nobody is surprised that civil war is erupting. Ok, maybe YOU'RE surprised.,

excon

As a Vietman Vet... you should know fighting a war half assed and running away before its time... never ends well. I knew and worked with a few of those South Vietnamese that were fighting with us that dealt with it after our hasty retreat.

A lot didn't survive the next few years. Some got out via Thailand on foot, one got out by boat... all were persecuted by the Communist government.

One was born in Hanoi... but moved south to fight against the Communists back when the French were there and the trouble broke out. Yeah he was a much older fellow back then. He's either dead now or a VERY old man now. I knew him 30 years ago and he was around 60 then. Oldest guy at my office.

And "Measured response" is political jargon for 'lets do this halfassed so we can pretend we did something and leave later.".

[talaniman]

Nuke 'em right?

[smoothy]

Nuke 'em right??

Not worth that...

But the Iranian Idiot might cross that line if someone doesn't take him out first.

[paraclete]

I don't get what all this bellyaching is about. The Iraqi have a few issues they need to work out themselves. I'm sure we were all aware these issues existed and now you will see a repressed people take back what they consider theirs. That the majority in Iraq might be traditionally/religiously aligned with the Iranians is the way it is

[smoothy]

Well a lot of it is the left trying to blame this all on "W" Bush... when this all started after Saddam invaded Kuwait.

Its been a cease fire ever since with Saddam getting his hormones in an uproar to prove what a big man he was until he poked and prodded one time too many.

The first gulf war never ended... it was put on hold with the cease fire agreement... EXACTLY like the Korean war... which STILL is under a cease fire agreement... the war never actually ended. And can still resume in a heartbeat.

And the fact Obamas been in charge for the last three years means HE has owned it for the last three years.

He wanted the job... he has to take all the baggage that goes with the job.

THe Obamies in their warped world view think "W" was responsible for everything that ever happened anyplace, ever... starting with the extinction of the Dinosaurs.

[excon]

As a Vietman Vet...you should know fighting a war half assed and running away before its time...never ends well.

Hello again, smoothy:

I agree. Fighting a war half assed doesn't work. But, it's the ACT of fighting of it half assed, that CAUSES one to run away before its time. That's because, if it WEREN'T fought half assed, its time would have come LONG ago. Finally, fighting it half assed is the ULTIMATE DISRESPECT for the soldiers who fought it WHOLE assed and lost their lives.

We know who the Commander in Chief was WHEN the war was being fought half assed? We know.

excon

[paraclete]

Well a lot of it is the left trying to blame this all on "W" Bush...when this all started after Saddam invaded Kuwait.

Its been a cease fire ever since with Saddam getting his hormones in an uproar to prove what a big man he was until he poked and prodded one time too many.

The first gulf war never ended....it was put on hold withthe cease fire agreement.....EXACTLY like the Korean war.......which STILL is under a cease fire agreement....the war never actually ended. And can still resume in a heartbeat.

And the fact Obamas been in charge for the last three years means HE has owned it for the last three years.

He wanted the job...he has to take all the baggage that goes with the job.

THe Obamies in their warped world view think "W" was responsible for everything that ever happened anyplace, ever.....starting with the extinction of the Dinosaurs.

No smoothy when 'W" came to power it proved the dinosaurs where not extinct

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

I agree. Fighting a war half assed doesn't work. But, it's the ACT of fighting of it half assed, that CAUSES one to run away before its time. That's because, if it WEREN'T fought half assed, its time would have come LONG ago. Finally, fighting it half assed is the ULTIMATE DISRESPECT for the soldiers who fought it WHOLE assed and lost their lives.

We know who the Commander in Chief was WHEN the war was being fought half assed? We know.

excon

Yes... Obama was.

[smoothy]

No smoothy when 'W" can to power it proved the dinosaurs where not extinct

Harry Ried and Nanacy Pelosi where pulling their insider trading hijinks that would send anyone else to jail long before W got elected... and they haven't stopped yet. And they are both older than rocks.

[tomder55]

The Dems were hell bent to get out regardless of the consequences .
Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said that that the U.S. left "without completing the job they should have finished."
So let's stop the pretense that they "wanted us to leave.

It is quite evident that the Dems are more interested in getting the troops out before the 2012 elections regardless of the situation on the ground... declare the "Bush war" a failure, and reap the political benefits. It is irresponsible and shameful.
AGAIN the world will be taught that the US does not keep it's commitments to it's allies when the going gets tough.

[excon]

Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said that that the U.S. left "without completing the job they should have finished."
So let's stop the pretense that they "wanted us to leave.

Hello again, tom:

Of COURSE he'd like us to win his civil war for him...

But, that ain't what our guys should be doing. Where we fight should NOT be based on what foreigners want. It should be based on what WE want. And that's what happened.

Besides, aren't you one of those who complain when we DO the bidding of foreign leaders?? I think you are.

excon

[talaniman]

LOL Tom, since when do foreign leaders set our policies for us? If he had REALLY wanted us to stay, wouldn't he give in to what we offered. That's not what happened. He wanted us to stay for HIS purpose, on HIS terms, and we rightfully said NO!