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talaniman · Nov 21, 2011, 04:58 PM

There is also a consequence for not listening when one airs their grievances. When you ignore or dismiss anyone, they tend to get louder, and more uncooperative. Don't look like they are going away any time soon.

Wondergirl · Nov 21, 2011, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

There is also a consequence for not listening when one airs their grievances. When you ignore or dismiss anyone, they tend to get louder, and more uncooperative.

Psssst, it starts during infancy.

excon · Nov 21, 2011, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

There is no right to assemble on private property and even in public it is frequently subject to permits .

Hello again,

There are some who think city laws requiring permits, and zoning laws, and school rules, and the like, all trump the Constitution... Then there are the people who UNDERSTAND the Constitution and what the founders had in mind. That would be me.

The First Amendment is the first amendment, for a reason. I can figure out why they wrote it first... Can you?

excon

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2011, 05:15 PM

As you know ,no rights are absolute. Bloomy waited most of a day waiting for the court system to decide on his decision to clear Zuccotti park.
No doubt the protesters at UC Davis will challenge the decision in court ;and I have my suspicions that the actions of the campus cop exceeded legal bounds and he will likely face legal problems over his over-zealousness.

I see nothing unconstitutional on the requiring of permits or curfews .

excon · Nov 21, 2011, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I see nothing unconstitutional on the requiring of permits or curfews .

Hello again, tom:

Of course you don't. You also see nothing unconstitutional about the NSA reading our email and listening to our phone calls. Plus, you see nothing unconstitutional about denying Muslims the right to construct a mosque where ever they choose..

So, from MY point of view, you're going to need a better argument than, YOU see nothing unconstitutional about it.

excon

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2011, 06:09 PM

You distort my position on the other issues you cite ,so it doesn't surprise me you distort this one.

paraclete · Nov 21, 2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

The First Amendment is the first amendment, for a reason. I can figure out why they wrote it first... Can you??

excon

The first amendment might be the first amendment but it doesn't override the original Constitution it just makes clear something's that were left unsaid and you really do need to stop taking snippets from it and reading it out of context. Other amendments later add more but the whole document must be considered as a whole. When amendments were added it is clear that whatever was happening had made it obvious that a certain aspect hadn't been dealt with adequately.

The right of assembly is clearly presented with a purpose to petition government to redress grievences, not for the purpose of conducting illegal acts or contributing to civil disorder or targeting individuals

excon · Nov 21, 2011, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

The right of assembly is clearly presented with a purpose to petition government to redress grievences, not for the purpose of conducting illegal acts or contributing to civil disorder or targetting individuals

Hello again, clete:

That's the right wing view of them... Others hold a different view. Civil disobedience is the HIGHEST form of patriotism..

excon

cdad · Nov 21, 2011, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, clete:

That's the right wing view of them... Others hold a different view. Civil disobedience is the HIGHEST form of patriotism..

excon

Do we need to ask Rosa Parks about this one ?

paraclete · Nov 21, 2011, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, clete:

That's the right wing view of them... Others hold a different view. Civil disobedience is the HIGHEST form of patriotism..

excon

Patriotism, is that what you think OWS exhibits? Personally I think is is an exhibition of Yoboism. Last time I looked patriotism was having concern for your country, not trashing it.

Where I come from Ex we have a saying; two wrongs don't make a right, and that means the end doesn't justify the means

talaniman · Nov 22, 2011, 12:00 AM

They are not wrong for expressing themselves. And we are seeing them growing and learning, despite the obstacles that have been placed in their way by establishment, and that's in the best tradition of the American spirit. Scraggly, and disorganized as some may think, like most early movements are, if they continue to voice their displeasure, they will eventually be heard, and taken seriously. That takes time.

Just think what they can do after they shave, shower, and get haircuts, and register to vote, and actually vote! Ya think they are going to vote for Romney, Cain, Perry, or Bachmann?? I don't, hehehe, and they sure ain't going to get behind the Newtster.

So I guess I can see the right wanting them to just go away. I don't see that happening either. So at the risk of dating myself, Right on, brothers, right on. Does the heart good to see Americans that don't feel we should just roll over and let the Oligarchs have their way with us.

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2011, 03:26 AM

Just think what they can do after they shave, shower, and get haircuts, and register to vote, and actually vote!

They did vote in 2008... They are the Obamazombies

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2011, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

They did vote in 2008 ...They are the Obamazombies

How do you figure that? They aren't professing any political affiliation.

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2011, 04:58 AM

Yeah they packed the halls when the President made his campaign appearances... Now they are 4 years older and out of school and hopey changy has been replaced with reality ,a reality they have not come to grips with because they still believe that piece of credential they purchased from the liberal arts schools entitles them to high pay entry level jobs where they won't get their fingers dirty .

paraclete · Nov 22, 2011, 05:22 AM

Tom are your saying your american dream has gone sour?

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2011, 05:40 AM

Hopey changy platitudes have.
The American dream is alive and well for those who realize it has to be earned.

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2011, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

yeah they packed the halls when the President made his campaign appearances ....

Weren't the halls packed for McCain's campaign appearances too? That's no proof that the people are of any political affiliation; it seems to be a mix of ages and political spectrums.

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2011, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

The American dream is alive and well for those who realize it has to be earned.

So what bad decisions did you make not to be in the 1%?

tomder55 · Nov 22, 2011, 06:00 AM

You see... that is NOT the American dream. It is not the guarantee of happiness or wealth . It is in the promise of the pursuit of it.

The American dream, that has lured tens of millions of all nations to our shores in the past century has not been a dream of merely material plenty, though that has doubtlessly counted heavily. It has been much more than that. It has been a dream of being able to grow to fullest development as man and woman, unhampered by the barriers which had slowly been erected in the older civilizations, unrepressed by social orders which had developed for the benefit of classes rather than for the simple human being of any and every class.

James Truslow Adams

It is far more than the collection of material wealth.

NeedKarma · Nov 22, 2011, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

you see ...that is NOT the American dream. It is not the guarantee of happiness or wealth . It is in the promise of the persuit of it.

James Truslow Adams

It is far more than the collection of material wealth.

Then the american dream has indeed gone by the wayside since it's obvious to all that americans are overly concerned with appearing wealthy at the expense of other pursuits.

BLACK FRIDAY FOR ALL!