[talaniman]

What's your hurry? If you take your time, and make a thoughtful decision based on facts, and not just feelings, you give yourself the chance to make a good decision.Ever notice when things happen fast, you get caught up in them, and have no time to think? I hear all your emotional arguments, and they sound great on paper at least.

I highly hope you give him time to see is is words, and willing attitude, translates into positive actions, that match those words. Let him go into therapy for himself, and by himself, if he is so willing to help himself. He has been lying, and cheating, using, and abusing, so long, it would be unwise for you to give him any crutch to do what he has to do for himself, to make him better.

While he has finally gotten the right idea, its him that must take the right steps at this time, and make his own decision without your influence.

That helps him be responsible for his own actions, and lets him put more than words on the table. There is absolutely no hurry, or reason for you to jump back into anything with him at this time, because he needs space to work on himself.

It does neither of you any good to ignore what has happened, and not recognize what is right for you both, and relationship counseling as a couple is not what's needed, but his own individual counseling is, for him, and for you, keep with the healing process, for yourself.

There is no hurry for you to follow him, until he proves himself, to himself, and gets a better idea that this is what he wants, and not just another leap from one person, to another so he doesn't have to be alone.

That fact is why you get a safe emotional distance from him, and stay there, so you don't let false hope trap you into someone who talks the talk, all of a sudden, but has yet to walk the walk.

He needs the space and time to do that, so let him have it, and speak no more of taking it slow or other nonsense at this time.

Giving him a chance when you know he isn't ready is setting you both up. And taking your time to let events play themselves out before you make a decision, gives YOU the option, and opportunity, and time, to get the FACTS.

If he is real, he will be better in 6 months. If he is not, well you are still healing. So stop justifying to yourself that taking him back is the right thing to do, because it may not be at this time.

I ask again, what's your hurry to put yourself back in this situation, before he has had a chance to PROVE he deserves your heart again?

Sit back and watch the actions, and see if the words match.

[1800proof]

But I know myself and if I do walk away, I'd always wonder if I made a mistake by not giving therapy a chance. I'd always regret what might've been if we'd given it a real chance.

That is a terrible weight to carry on your shoulders. My last girlfriend had this weight on her shoulders, and I wish she had gotten her closure before we met. If that is what it takes for you to move on in your life, then go for it. But know that through your unbearable pain, he was with another woman. Now that he is feeling pain, you are coming back. Is he really learning anything here? I know that the heart wants what the heart wants, and stepping away from a 6 year relationship is a hard thing to do, but do you really what you want to go back to the infidelity, physical abuse, emotional abuse?

Counseling is a great idea, but maybe you should see one on your own to find out what's going on with you before trying to figure out what's going on with yours and his relationship.

[Kitkat22]

Lena.. we just don't want you to get your hopes built up about this
Guy. You deserve so much more than what he gave you. You have come so far. I just don't want to
Give you hope when there may not be any.

I don't think men like him change.
I think he realizes you are strong and he can't stand it. Please think about this.

[Kitkat22]

I hope you're okay? Are You?

[lena1024]

I'm not rushing into anything. I'm not back with him and we're not moving in together or rushing into marriage. We're simply going to try therapy for the first time. Once we've been in therapy for a while we can decided, with the help of our therapist, whether this relationship is salvageable or if we should both walk away. I'm fully aware that there may be no hope here and I'm aware that he may be saying all the right things to get me back... I'm aware of all of those things. I know all the bad!! But why is everyone ignoring the one good thing here... he is finally willing to try therapy! Isn't that what married/committed people do before they give up all hope on their relationship? Isn't that the right course of action before you throw in the towel? Yes he's hurt me physically and emotionally and there is no excuse for his cheating but does that mean it's completely impossible for a person to change? IF and ONLY IF therapy works, then I believe he will be a different person and one worth taking a chance on. If therapy does not work, then I'll be right back where I was one month ago. Either way, I think it's a chance I should take.

1800Proof, I think you get it. I'm not re-committing to him and I'm not giving up hope completely. I'm simply giving this a last ditch effort. I don't want to live with regrets or ask myself 5 years from now "What if?" At least if it doesn't work, I can say I tried everything humanly possible.

[Shadowburn]

Honestly, this guy seems like way too much work. He is probably not going to worth it in the end. Some relationships just don't work out, that's the fact of life. Maybe he agreed to therapy only as a way to manipulate you back - who knows how he will behave 6 months from now when therapy is over and things re back to "normal". His "normal".

[Kitkat22]

I'm so sorry lena. I wish I could have said "go for it"... but I didn't feel comfortable doing that.

I wish you happiness and please keep posting... Kit

[lena1024]

Thank you all for your honesty. You've certainly given me a lot to think about and as much as it pains me, I do have to face the realities of what he's done to me in the past. I was really hoping (and still do hope) after a year of therapy we could move forward in this relationship and finally be a real family. I'm not sure what will happen. I can only take it one day at a time right now. I already have my own therapist who I've been seeing for several years and she suggested someone for our relationship issues. I guess for now I'll give it a few sessions and see where that goes. I have no intentions of moving in with him or getting married for a minimum of one year and ONLY if therapy goes well and he proves he's trying to change.

Either way, I do thank you all for your honest advice. I will keep posting as the situation changes. I just pray the changes are for the better.

[Kitkat22]

Thank you all for your honesty. You've certainly given me a lot to think about and as much as it pains me, I do have to face the realities of what he's done to me in the past. I was really hoping (and still do hope) after a year of therapy we could move forward in this relationship and finally be a real family. I'm not sure what will happen. I can only take it one day at a time right now. I already have my own therapist who I've been seeing for several years and she suggested someone for our relationship issues. I guess for now I'll give it a few sessions and see where that goes. I have no intentions of moving in with him or getting married for a minimum of one year and ONLY if therapy goes well and he proves he's trying to change.

Either way, I do thank you all for your honest advice. I will keep posting as the situation changes. I just pray the changes are for the better.

I wish you the best and I hope he does change. God can change him... I really believe that. You are in my prayers and you post anytime you want too.

[vanheart]

Go back & read Tal's post & think about.

Its all about how much time you want to invest.

If he wants therapy, then let him get it & decide for himself what it is he wants.

Not for you to save. Or force.

I say just enjoy the now. Life is too short.

Fix your moments, not him.

[Kitkat22]

Lena, we're here if you need us. You will be fine. You're strong and you'll get through this.

[lena1024]

I made the final decision to seek therapy with John. He also is going to do therapy for himself. There is a lot of childhood trauma that he doesn't even recall. In fact, I know things about his traumatic past that he doesn't remember. He needs this more than anything and whether we work out as a couple or not, I want to be there to support him. I believe a lot of events are going to come up that will overwhelm him emotionally and he's going to need his friends to help him through. As for "us" I have very positive feelings but I am still being cautious and playing it safe. I've set the ground rules and he's agreed to them. The rest will come in time. I feel right about this and although I am afraid of getting hurt again, I'm prepared for what may come.

People CAN change and they do. John is actually a perfect example of that. He was an alocholic but has not touched a drop for the past 15 years. Not even through his divorce, his mothers death or our breakup which apparently was as difficult for him as it was for me. I'm trusting that he can make more positive changes in his life that will help us grow in our relationship and move forward. But more importantly changes that will help HIM grow into the person I know he can be.

For now... it's all about Cautious Optimism.

[positiveparent]

Hi Lena
I read your latest post, and you're right people can change if they want to but it also does have to be that they want to change for them no one else, or it won't last.

As your friend is having counselling to face his demons and deal with his issues then he does have a very good chance of making the changes he needs to make in order to live the life he wants, However I will strees though if he's not doing this because HE wants to change for himself, then there's a very high risk he won't be able to maintain those changes.

Just wanted you to know this, and I wish you both the best of luck.

Yes make ground rules and don't let them waver, make it known what you will or will not tolerate, and if he steps over the line, then do whatever you've told him you will, its all too easy to fall back into old patterns and habits, and to say we want to change but for the wrong reasons, make sure you both know what is needed to really inact changes that last. If you don't you'll end up back where you started.

Please keep us informed..

[Kitkat22]

Lena you and John will be in my prayers and I really mean that. Please remember we care about both of you and we're here whenever you want to talk... {{HUGS}}} Kit

[lena1024]

Thank you folks very much for your support. I agree completely, John has to want to change for HIMSELF in order to make this work. I guess I should just ask him outright why he wants to change but I simply assumed that he was doing it both for himself and for us. He made a couple of statements that I just assumed meant he wants to change for himself but asking him is probably the best way to be sure. He stated to me "I need to make a change soon or I'm going to die. I just can't keep going like this." He also said "I really want to know why I'm such a mess." I guess I took those statements to mean he wants this for himself... what do you think? I'm only asking for opinions but I will definitely ask him tomorrow why he wants to start therapy. It's a very good point.

So far, things are still going well but we all know how that can change at any given moment. It helps that we only see each other a couple of times per week. We're not living together and we have no intentions of moving back in together until we see how therapy goes. I think the time and space apart is good for us. I work nights and he works days.

Thanks again for your support and advice.

[lena1024]

John and I officially start therapy next Thursday which I'm happy about. Things are going well but I have to admit, the more I think about everything he's put me through the angrier I become. Sometimes I wonder if I can ever truly trust him again. I still feel so hurt, betrayed and incredibly angry about everything. I'm sure the doctor will help us both but I never anticipated having so many negative feelings toward John. Sometimes I find myself withdrawing from him in disgust. I still really love him but I'm working on NOT giving him so much of myself. I have always been way too giving when it comes to my relationships and I'm starting to see that most people don't really appreciate your love if you're too giving. Sometimes witholding a bit works better, sometimes being a little cold can make them appreciate the warmth. What's your opinion on that?

[Kitkat22]

I think you are never going to feel the same about him. It happens when someone finally takes enough and they look back and say... "How in the world did I ever let him do that and get away with it".

You are becoming independent and you're finding you don't need him to make you happy... Good for you

[vanheart]

So true.
Happiness comes from within.

Don't worry about being cold. That's in your head.
Its what's in your gut that counts. (your BS detectors)

Plus, right now, he doesn't deserve your full attention. Maybe never did.
Its you first, remember.

[lena1024]

Well I guess everyone was right to advise me against going back to him. We tried therapy and it was working for a while but suddenly out of nowhere, yesterday he decided it's best if we're not a couple anymore. He gave so many lame reason which all amount to the same thing... he doesn't want to be with me. On one hand I feel like a fool for every giving him another chance but on the other hand, I'm glad I did. I hate the thought of regretting something and always wondering what might have been. If I hadn't given it another try and gone to therapy I always would've wondered. Well, he will not get a 3rd. I've learned to have too much self-respect for that.

I'm not exactly sure how I feel at this moment. Initially I was astounded, completely in shock. We were at a birthday party on Sunday and he was wonderful, very sweet, affectionate, attentive, playful, holding me and stroking my hair. Just generally very happy like we've been over the past two months. We had one major argument but we dealt with it and he had some severe depression for a while. It was very bad he was becoming self-destructive and it worried me greatly. Other than that, the past 2 months were good. I'm not sure where this all came from but I guess it shouldn't matter should it? The result is the same, he doesn't want to be with me.

[phantomlrp]

You gave it a second chance and it didn't work. At least years from now you won't look back and wonder what might have been.

Keep your head up and hang in there.