[phantompeg]

Hi, I have been searching the net for some advice or answers to an event that has happened. First off I have been married for 12 years and we have the two best boys in the world. Recently we had a fall out just over stupid things like money,goals, and me apparently not being social enough with her female friends. I have never cheated on my wife and I don`t believe she has or plans on it. I have browsed around and everyone's answer is another guy and I should investigate further. I have done all that and she still comes home after work and lets me know everywhere she is otherwise which is hardly ever, I don't want to be a psychopath but I even went through her cell and nothing is abnormal. I trust my wife 150% but she claims she is unsure if she wants us to be married anymore and feels she has drifted away. I offered to leave for awhile and she cried and told me to stay that she does not want me to leave, We still sleep together and end up having sex sometimes, and she also says she wants to try working on a goal like going away on a holiday soon with our kids. I don't want to pester her with questions but I am going crazy not knowing if she wants to stay because she loves me or because other reasons. I need some advice as to what to do because I am really confused at what to do when she tells me she has drifted but won`t let me leave. Does anyone have a clue? Am I wasting my time with her or does this sound like it will blow over in time?
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to give input.

[jaime90]

Maybe she told you she felt like you were drifting apart on a bad day? The best thing I think you can do, is to sit down and communicate. Ask her if something is bugging her. By simply sitting down and having open, honest, non-attacking or defensive conversations, you can eliminate a lot of problems in a relationship. Your wife has a good plan of trying to reconnect by setting up a vacation, or a get-away. That's a good idea. If she feels like you are drifting apart, ask her if she wants to spend some time re-connecting alone. Reassure her that you love her, and that you meant 'for better or for worse.'
That's my advice. Take some more time talking to her about it, and work on your relationship by reconnecting, and re-kindling the love you both share.
(also, financial problems are a big stresser in relationships and can sometimes send them straight into divorce. You could try going to couple's counseling to get some conflict resolution exercises, or take a class on money management together.)

[J_9]

Communication is key to any relationship. It's even more important in a marriage. Sit down and talk with her. Find out what she is thinking. If she finds you went through her cell she may go ballistic.

Financial reasons are in the top 5 for reasons for divorce. Try working on a budget.

[phantompeg]

Maybe she told you she felt like you were drifting apart on a bad day? The best thing I think you can do, is to sit down and communicate. Ask her if something is bugging her. By simply sitting down and having open, honest, non-attacking or defensive conversations, you can eliminate a lot of problems in a relationship. Your wife has a good plan of trying to reconnect by setting up a vacation, or a get-away. That's a good idea. If she feels like you are drifting apart, ask her if she wants to spend some time re-connecting alone. Reassure her that you love her, and that you meant 'for better or for worse.'
That's my advice. Take some more time talking to her about it, and work on your relationship by reconnecting, and re-kindling the love you both share.
(also, financial problems are a big stresser in relationships and can sometimes send them straight into divorce. You could try going to couple's counseling to get some conflict resolution exercises, or take a class on money management together.)

thanks. The part about the counseling I brought up and she is not interested but I am all for it. I do tell her and let her know I love her very much as much as possible without sounding pathetic. This all came out of the blue and was so random that I was completely caught off guard. I don't want her to feel the need to stay with me for our children's sake because that would be a form of torture to her. I just can not understand how she can say things like being unsure if she is in love and still wanting me to stay with her and sleep with her though. That's what confuses me the most. I have been upfront with her and I try my buns off to not freak out at her whenever she says something negative and I have kept my cool and was always willing to hear anything she had to say.I even told her that if she had eyes for someone else just to be open about it and we would take it from there, but she says constantly that there is no other. Financially we are no bill gates position but we are stable and have toys we don't need. That's another thing that I don't get about the money argument.. I still trust her in every way but I am wondering if the things and comments on the net may be true and if there is another guy, but I can not see how because she is either at work or home, when we go out, 8 out of 10 times we go together and the very odd time she will go out with friends and same goes for me. We know each others friends and never argue about it. Just lke any couple we have had our great times and our sour times.. she doesn't want to talk to any of her friends about this and doesn't want anyone to know we even had this conversation.. the last thing I want to do is be a pest and make her feel pressured into answering any questions I have. I refuse to be one of those types that will bug and bug the hell out of someone for answers, but in this case its really hard to swallow it and go on about my day not knowing what will happen when we get home.

[Cat1864]

recently we had a fall out just over stupid things like money,goals, and me apparently not being social enough with her female friends.

Are these things 'stupid' to her? Has she tried telling you why she feels the way she does, but you aren't seeing the same red flags that apparently she thinks she is?

Counseling probably could help, but I think she has a fear of being seen as a failure that could be holding her back from seeking help. It may take her some time to understand that asking for help and guidance is not a weakness and does not mean that she or you have failed at anything. It only means that you are human and that sometimes it is a good thing to see a situation from a neutral party's viewpoint. I, also, think she may be scared of being 'judged' by others if they knew what was going on. That is a fear that she needs to face.

[Jake2008]

That is a big hammer to have hanging over your head. Walking on eggshells not knowing what to expect when you walk in the door is stressful and unnecessary.

I wouldn't be wondering why too much longer, I'd be a little more direct. At some point she has to stop manipulating your emotions and either find out through therapy why she is feeling the way she is, and what she is prepared to do, or not do, to get the marriage back on track.

It is her not talking or giving any insight that has naturally caused you to be suspicious. There has to be some reason, and without any talking going on, I'd be thinking the worst too. What else can you do. She wants you and she doesn't want you. How are you supposed to figure that one out.

I'd be sleeping in the guest room myself. I would also make an appointment with a marriage counsellor, and tell her that you expect her to go if she is serious about figuring out what she wants.

Please stand up for yourself, and don't allow her to manipulate you, and take her sweet time in deciding if you are good enough to be married to or not.

She needs to smarten up, or lose a good man, and a good marriage.

[JudyKayTee]

Something that is stupid to you may not be stupid to her. Do you address her questions/concerns as if she is stupid?

I am also horrified that you went through her cell phone. You say you trust her but that is not what your actions show.

I see counselling - for both of you or just yourself so you can find peace.

I'm an investigator. Whenever anyone asks me to conduct a surveillance "just to prove there's nothing going on" I tell him/her that he/she already knows the truth. I feel the same about cell phone snooping.

[phantompeg]

Are these things 'stupid' to her? Has she tried telling you why she feels the way she does, but you aren't seeing the same red flags that apparently she thinks she is?

Counseling probably could help, but I think she has a fear of being seen as a failure that could be holding her back from seeking help. It may take her some time to understand that asking for help and guidance is not a weakness and does not mean that she or you have failed at anything. It only means that you are human and that sometimes it is a good thing to see a situation from a neutral party's viewpoint. I, also, think she may be scared of being 'judged' by others if they knew what was going on. That is a fear that she needs to face.

Thanks.
I suppose they are not stupid reasons to her for obvious reasons and no I have never called them stupid to her. All I said to her is that they seem small and can easily be resolved. I realize she is hurt in some way or another and I don't want to make it worse by putting her down.. im trying to just give her some space for a bit and seeing how that pans out, but I think I have to read up some tips on space giving and way too much space giving.
Thank you again for your views.

[phantompeg]

That is a big hammer to have hanging over your head. Walking on eggshells not knowing what to expect when you walk in the door is stressful and unnecessary.

I wouldn't be wondering why too much longer, I'd be a little more direct. At some point she has to stop manipulating your emotions and either find out through therapy why she is feeling the way she is, and what she is prepared to do, or not do, to get the marriage back on track.

It is her not talking or giving any insight that has naturally caused you to be suspicious. There has to be some reason, and without any talking going on, I'd be thinking the worst too. What else can you do. She wants you and she doesn't want you. How are you supposed to figure that one out.

I'd be sleeping in the guest room myself. I would also go ahead and make an appointment with a marriage counsellor, and tell her that you expect her to go if she is serious about figuring out what she wants.

Please stand up for yourself, and don't allow her to manipulate you, and take her sweet time in deciding if you are good enough to be married to or not.

She needs to smarten up, or lose a good man, and a good marriage.

Thanks for the input and advice, I am looking into counseling and trying to convince her that it can't hurt or cause anymore grief.
As for the guestroom, I kind of wish we had one right now but it's the couch for me. But every time I make my way over to it she comes and cries for me to come to bed and says she wants 1 day at a time.
I guess I'm either blind or just plain out don't get females at all anymore.
And your right I think I should be a bit harder and not so soft right now. I just don't want to come off as too hard and push her away even further I suppose.

[phantompeg]

Something that is stupid to you may not be stupid to her. Do you address her questions/concerns as if she is stupid?

I am also horrified that you went through her cell phone. You say you trust her but that is not what your actions show.

I see counselling - for both of you or just yourself so you can find peace.

I'm an investigator. Whenever anyone asks me to conduct a surveillance "just to prove there's nothing going on" I tell him/her that he/she already knows the truth. I feel the same about cell phone snooping.

Thanks for the heads up.
Your totally right and cell snooping is rather stupid. I guess after all these years this communication break down has left me wondering. Hearing the horror stories and advice from other sites did get the better of me and made my imagination run a bit wild. Please keep in mind its not a hobby of mine and I can honestly state that after 12 yrs that was the first time. We have been very free with stuff like that and leave our phones just laying around in plain view and never thought twice about it.
I don't snoop in her purse, I haven't snooped in her drawers or anything of the sort before this. I do trust her fully, but like I said I guess my imagination was running wild.
If I ever felt the urge to go as far as keyloggers,investigators,etc etc I think I personally would rather walk away before taking it that far because I think if anybody lacks that much trust they are better off without.
I do agree that it was dumb.

[Alty]

Women and men are so different. What you think is stupid or petty, she thinks is the end of the world.

Obviously she has concerns and without meaning to you probably made her concerns seem small and petty. No one likes that.

The fact that she asked you to go away with her, reconnect with her;

and she also says she wants to try working on a goal like going away on a holiday soon with our kids.

To me that means that she thinks you're drifting apart as a couple, that you don't spend enough time together, that she's lonely.

She doesn't want you to leave because she still loves you. She said what she said because she's hurt but doesn't know how to tell you why. She's dropping hints, like the vacation idea, but you're not picking up on those hints.

You two really need to sit down together and lay it on the line. This may be the hardest conversation you've ever had but if you remain calm and state what's on your mind, it could be a real eye opener.

Yes, therapy would be a great idea, but first I suggest approaching her. Ask her to write down her feelings, to be brutally honest, to write down what she wants in your relationship, what she feels she's missing, what she's worried or upset about. Everything.

You do the same.

Then find a sitter for the night and sit down and compare your notes. Don't hold back. Be honest with her. Tell her you're worried about your marriage, that you love her but you don't know what's going on, why she's pulling back. Let her talk, you listen, then you talk she listens. Remain calm, no matter what she says don't yell, don't get upset. Listen and hear everything she says to you.

That's my suggestion to you.

Good luck.

[phantompeg]

Women and men are so different. What you think is stupid or petty, she thinks is the end of the world.

Obviously she has concerns and without meaning to you probably made her concerns seem small and petty. No one likes that.

The fact that she asked you to go away with her, reconnect with her;



To me that means that she thinks you're drifting apart as a couple, that you don't spend enough time together, that she's lonely.

She doesn't want you to leave because she still loves you. She said what she said because she's hurt but doesn't know how to tell you why. She's dropping hints, like the vacation idea, but you're not picking up on those hints.

You two really need to sit down together and lay it on the line. This may be the hardest conversation you've ever had but if you remain calm and state what's on your mind, it could be a real eye opener.

Yes, therapy would be a great idea, but first I suggest approaching her. Ask her to write down her feelings, to be brutally honest, to write down what she wants in your relationship, what she feels she's missing, what she's worried or upset about. Everything.

You do the same.

Then find a sitter for the night and sit down and compare your notes. Don't hold back. Be honest with her. Tell her you're worried about your marriage, that you love her but you don't know what's going on, why she's pulling back. Let her talk, you listen, then you talk she listens. Remain calm, no matter what she says don't yell, don't get upset. Listen and hear everything she says to you.

That's my suggestion to you.

Good luck.

I like that idea of putting things on paper, I haven't thought of that yet, instead I used speech and got her to use it also. Maybe on paper she will feel she can be a bit more open.
I am worried about her, I don't want her to feel she needs to make a drastic decision based on things I'm willing to work out. I think I should give her some space as she has said she feels a need to breath a bit, Im not sure exactly what that means or what it is she is hoping for but I am willing to do whatever she asks for the time being.
Thanks for the idea!

[Alty]

I like that idea of putting things on paper, i havent thought of that yet, instead i used speech and got her to use it also. maybe on paper she will feel she can be a bit more open.
i am worried about her, i dont want her to feel she needs to make a drastic decision based on things im willing to work out. I think i should give her some space as she has said she feels a need to breath a bit, Im not sure exactly what that means or what it is she is hoping for but i am willing to do whatever she asks for the time being.
thanks for the idea!

It's often easier to write what you feel then to say how you feel. That's the way I am.

I've been with my husband since we were both 19, married at 24, 14 years, two kids, a mortgage and pets. It's not always easy. Heck, there are times that I'd love to smack him upside the head because he just isn't understanding how I feel. It's frustrating, makes you start to wonder if he really cares.

The fact is, men and women are different. Once you understand that, understand the difference, accept it and work with it, then you can solve any problem that comes along.

Whenever I feel I'm not being heard I write him a note, give it to him when he's relaxed, not stressed or just home from work. Then we discuss it.

Sometimes it leads to a fight, but the majority of the time, if we both remain calm, we get everything out in the open, deal with it and move on, with our relationship stronger then it was before.

If you can't talk to each other, tell each other how you feel, then who can you talk to? You're a couple in every way, partners, parents, lovers, friends. Don't forget that aspect of your marriage. You two have to work together.

Please keep us posted, let us know how it all goes.

[phantompeg]

It's often easier to write what you feel then to say how you feel. That's the way I am.

I've been with my husband since we were both 19, married at 24, 14 years, two kids, a mortgage and pets. It's not always easy. Heck, there are times that I'd love to smack him upside the head because he just isn't understanding how I feel. It's frustrating, makes you start to wonder if he really cares.

The fact is, men and women are different. Once you understand that, understand the difference, accept it and work with it, then you can solve any problem that comes along.

Whenever I feel I'm not being heard I write him a note, give it to him when he's relaxed, not stressed or just home from work. Then we discuss it.

Sometimes it leads to a fight, but the majority of the time, if we both remain calm, we get everything out in the open, deal with it and move on, with our relationship stronger then it was before.

If you can't talk to eachother, tell eachother how you feel, then who can you talk to? You're a couple in every way, partners, parents, lovers, friends. Don't forget that aspect of your marriage. You two have to work together.

Please keep us posted, let us know how it all goes.

Thanks again, I took your advice for myself and wrote her a note. I left out anything sounding negative but did ask a few questions. I left it for her on our TV and a went out with a friend for the evening. When I came home she was smiling and seemed happy. All I can wonder is how long that smile will last now. All I basically said was that I loved her and I understood she was upset with things and that I will always be there for her no matter what because I think of her as my best friend as well as my wife. She told me she had always tried to be the best to me and tried her hardest to be her dads favorite. ( when she said that something hit me and I'm thinking now, but almost a year now her parents separated and her dad left, he always ignored his wife in the end and started to favor a female employee he had by always going away on business trips and such. She hated that woman so much and still does to no end). I started to maybe think that this has something to do with it plus a fact that I never really connected with him very much. But its not like I have bad feelings towards him in anyway. We do talk but it is mostly work related.
I also told her in my note that I think this may be a test of some sort and how we push past it will either make us stronger or drift us apart. I told her my family and having them all there means the world to me and I would do anything it took to smooth it over.
Overall she seems to be smiling but still feels the need to go one day at a time. She still wants to go on a vacation and she wants us to take the kids away this weekend and go to a movie.
I was sort of hoping for something a bit more concrete from her but its all right for now. I think I feel way past the point of being bitter and am just ready to forget about it, never mention it again in conversation and move forward.
I have no problem giving her the time she needs. I just hope she isn`t thinking months or a year.
Mentally I don't think I could handle the suspense for long periods, but I'm not going to push my luck either.

Thanks again for your advice.
O, she never did write me back but we did sit down and talk about it.

[Jake2008]

You've broken the ice, and that is a very good, positive move.

I hope that she will talk, actually talk and get it all out there.

I hope too that you will post to let us know how you are doing.

[Cat1864]

She told me she had always tried to be the best to me and tried her hardest to be her dads favorite. ( when she said that something hit me and im thinking now, but almost a year now her parents separated and her dad left, he always ignored his wife in the end and started to favor a female employee he had by always going away on business trips and such. she hated that woman so much and still does to no end). i started to maybe think that this has something to do with it plus a fact that i never really connected with him very much. but its not like i have bad feelings towards him in anyway. we do talk but it is mostly work related.

I think you may have stubbed your toe on a very large part of what may be bothering her. Her father's desertion of the family puts some of her concerns in a different light.

You might ask her if she thinks she needs to talk to a neutral party (aka: Therapist) about what happened in her parents' marriage.

[SVImager]

Hi Phantompeg,

I have an answer for you.
Read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

Yes, Communication is key but it is not the only key.
With 12 years of marriage, you've lost that sex appeal, that sexual attraction in her eyes.

Having a Goal is very important in her eyes.
In the beginning of your relationship you guys shared your goals and dreams... after 12 years of marriage that sharing of goal and dreams turn into a list of your fail attempts.
BTW, the Goal cannot be her. It must be a challenge you have that is outside of her.

I've been where you are and yes it drove me nuts.
My personal conclusion is that I had to change... so I am telling you "You have to change." somehow someway if you want to make your marriage work.

Has she recently got fit or lost weight?

[phantompeg]

Hi Phantompeg,

I have an answer for you.
Read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

Yes, Communication is key but it is not the only key.
With 12 years of marriage, you've lost that sex appeal, that sexual attraction in her eyes.

Having a Goal is very important in her eyes.
In the beginning of your relationship you guys shared your goals and dreams.... after 12 years of marriage that sharing of goal and dreams turn into a list of your fail attempts.
BTW, the Goal cannot be her. It must be a challenge you have that is outside of her.

I've been where you are and yes it drove me nuts.
My personal conclusion is that I had to change... so I am telling you "You have to change." somehow someway if you want to make your marriage work.

Has she recently got fit or lost weight?

Hi and thanks
Maybe your right, after 12 years and the occasional time of one of us not in the mood has a bit to do with it.
How did you change and what did you change in that case?
No she has not been at the gym or any type of extra activity to slim down.
She already is slim and has been the same weight forever.
Someone told me that maybe she doesn't feel herself or as pretty and is also adding some faults from her own life. By her doing that and thinking to hard is leading her into depression and her escape might be to pass the buck off at me.
But like I said before I am open to any ideas to get over this state.

I`m wondering what you have in mind when you say change?

Thanks

[Gemini54]

Twelve years is a reasonable time to be married and the feelings we have for our partners can vacillate enormously during that time.

Just because feelings change doesn't mean that the marriage is over. So you have sex less. Big deal. So you talk less. Big deal. So you argue more. Big deal. All of these things can be worked on and should only be of concern if you ignore them and allow then to get progressively worse.

She's troubled and confused and you're afraid and uncertain. It's awful to be afraid but you must resist the urge to hassle her about her feelings. Instead, take the initiative. Go to the movies, take the holiday, pay her some attention. Let her know that you love her via the things you do.

You're right. This is a test, and it's your love that will see you both through. It's hard to love someone when you're not certain of being loved in return, but that's what commitment and marriage are about. Sometimes you just have to keep loving them!

[JudyKayTee]

Hi Phantompeg,

I have an answer for you.
Read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

Yes, Communication is key but it is not the only key.
With 12 years of marriage, you've lost that sex appeal, that sexual attraction in her eyes.

Having a Goal is very important in her eyes.
In the beginning of your relationship you guys shared your goals and dreams.... after 12 years of marriage that sharing of goal and dreams turn into a list of your fail attempts.
BTW, the Goal cannot be her. It must be a challenge you have that is outside of her.

I've been where you are and yes it drove me nuts.
My personal conclusion is that I had to change... so I am telling you "You have to change." somehow someway if you want to make your marriage work.

Has she recently got fit or lost weight?

Once again I find this to be strange advice from a Psychologist. That having been said - I find attempts to "guess" what "she" needs or want to be a useless waste of energy. Having a goal is very important in her eyes? No one here but the OP (and he's not sure) knows what's "very important in her eyes."

As far as the "recently got fit or lost weight" part - if you are alluding to an affair (because I realize that's what happened in your marriage) you are simply adding something else for the OP to worry about.

I think marriage is work. I am well aware that some days I love my partner more than he loves me. Other days, he loves me more than I love him. It's ebb and flow.

I was initially concerned that OP was "snooping," but he has explained that. I'm an investigator; I do surveillances and other investigations; my advice is not to snoop unless you are prepared to address whatever it is you find - good, bad or indifferent. And OP knows that.

Maybe my problem is men who have problems in their own marriages trying to explain to other men how women think - as opposed to giving advice based on how men think (which I think they would know).