[ETWolverine]

Are there any places/countries on this earth where the governemnt is running to your liking?

Micronesia. They've got a total of 14 legislators, of which two are chosen internally to be President and Vice President. The government has little power and basically stays out of the everyday lives of the people. The government has no military and only a small police force, so the government has no power to force the people to comply with anything they don't want to comply with as a whole. Basically, what they have is a small centralized government with little power. MOST issues are handled at the state level (4 states, each with a state government).

On the other hand, their economy is for sh!t... a subsistance agrarian/fishing economy. Their major exports are hand-made crafts, clothing and fish, and very little of it at that. There are few economic opportunitites in Micronesia.

So... all in all, while I like the way they handle their government, I DON'T like their economy.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

So its government is a model for what you'd like the US government to be?

[ETWolverine]

So its government is a model for what you'd like the US government to be?

Yep. Weak, small, centralized, and with as little power as possible. It should be there for administrative purposes only, to manage roads, bridges, tunnels, and the mail system (all of which should be contracted to private companies), the military and the police, and to manage the courts for the purpose of enforcing civil and criminal law and interstate commerce. Other than that, it should have no power whatsoever.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

Interesting concept. It would wild to see in practice. I can't imagine the amount of damage that would happen if many of the regulatory agencies didn't exist (FDA, USDA, CDC, EPA, etc.).

[ETWolverine]

Interesting concept. It would wild to see in practice. I can't imagine the amount of damage that would happen if many of the regulatory agencies didn't exist (FDA, USDA, CDC, EPA, etc.).

The most important thing that would happen is that people would stop relying on the nanny-state to make their decisions for them and learn to use their own brains instead to determine what is best for them. Critical thinking skills long lost would re-emerge.

They would also learn the meaning of the words "caveat emptor" instead of suing for every little thing that can find an excuse for.

These are GOOD results, not bad ones. They are results that would cause people to become more responsible for their own lives. And through that responsibility, they would take control of their lives and begin to choose for themselves.

And isn't liberty defined as "having the ability to choose for yourself"? This would be beneficial to the idea of liberty and freedom.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

I think you give way too much credit to the average american. Not many could corrctly interpret research whether a pesticide or drug is harmful or not.

[ETWolverine]

I think you give way too much credit to the average american. Not many could corrctly interpret research whether a pesticide or drug is harmful or not.

Then it behooves them to learn, doesn't it.

And I guarantee you that every professional farmer out there knows which pesticides work best on his crops. They are professionals, and they know what effects these chemicals will have on their farms and their livlihoods. They probably know the products better than the chemists who made them. Their livlihoods DEPEND on that knowledge.

(As a side note, professional farmers are more than just hicks, as most city folks think. A professional farmer will usually have an advanced degree in agrarian sciences from a major university, with a background in chemistry, environmental sciences, and usually mechanical engineering as well. He will know to the umpteenth percentile the exact mineral content of his soil, the best genetic strain of seed for that soil, the exact compounds needed to maximize his crop and speed up growth time, the exact products needed to minimize loss of crops to insects, disease, and weed encroachment. He will also be able to fix a tractor engine, rebuild parts for his combine when they break, and probably will have a mini-machine shop on his grounds. He will have a better idea of weather for the coming 18 months than most meteorologists, and a good grasp of economics and comodities markets so that he knows what crops will have the greatest demand in the coming years. If you think that farmers don't know what they are using as pesticides for their crops, you are being a fool.)

As for drugs, it's the job of the doctor to determine what drugs are effective for the disease or condition in question. HE is the professional that we rely on to get the best care possible, and it is his job to know whether a drug works or is harmful before prescribing it.

I think you underestimate the abilities of the professionals to know the products and services they use in their trade. And I think you underestimate the ability of most Americans to ask the professionals for advice before making decisions about those products... instead of relying on the government to do it.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

It must suck going through your entire life not liking the way your country is run and no way of ever having it to your liking.

You just don't get it.

[NeedKarma]

I come from a farming family dude. I'm no "city folk". I meant the suburbanite buying whatever chemical that catches his fancy due to advertising by the big unregulated corps.

As for drugs I was referring to OTC, not doctors. In an unregulated world you could have all drugs available no?

[NeedKarma]

You just don't get it.

Wonderfully explained!

[ETWolverine]

I come from a farming family dude. I'm no "city folk". I meant the suburbanite buying whatever chemical that catches his fancy due to advertising by the big unregulated corps.

As for drugs I was referring to OTC, not doctors. In an unregulated world you could have all drugs available no?

Yes you could. Kind of like how it is in Israel. You can pretty much get any drug that would be prescription here as over-the-counter there (including many narcotics). The drug industry in Israel is much less regulated than it is in the USA or Canada. Cheaper too. I haven't heard of any problems in Israel about badly produced, poor quality, drugs resulting in illness or death. And I generally pay close attention to Israeli news.

Elliot

[tomder55]

I haven't heard of any problems in Israel about badly produced, poor quality, drugs resulting in illness or death. And I generally pay close attention to Israeli news.

Teva is one of my favorite companies.

[NeedKarma]

Kind of like how it is in Israel.

With their Ministry of Health:Ministry of Health
Just like we do!

[ETWolverine]

Teva is one of my favorite companies.

Yep. Teva's a great example of what I'm talking about... a company that operates with minimal regulation in Israel, and yet produces drugs that are legal in the USA because their quality standards are so high.

You don't need government to tell you how to produce a good product. You just need to want to make money by putting out the best product you can so that you get as many customers as possible. PROFIT is enough of an incentive to produce a safe, effective product that customers continue to want to buy.

Liberals seem to have lost that concept.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

With their Ministry of Health:Ministry of Health
Just like we do!

Their health ministry is very hands off. Very minimal regulation, very minimal intervention. The companies basically get to operate as THEY see fit, not as the government sees fit. And it works... their drugs are cheaper and quality is just as high as it is here.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

Is Pfizer a good company, or Merck Frosst

[phlanx]

Evening Elliot

Teva's a great example of what I'm talking about... a company that operates with minimal regulation in Israel, and yet produces drugs that are legal in the USA because their quality standards are so high.

Is the product manufactured is Israel?

[ETWolverine]

Is Pfizer a good company, or Merck Frosst

Yep. DESPITE government intervention... not because of it.

[NeedKarma]

They both have very large R&D campuses in Montreal.

[phlanx]

The wage in israel is on average lower than the states

NIS 7500 per month average with approx 4NIS per dollar

When labour is cheap it is easy to produce a quality product

It is very difficult to praise a company for producing a better product when their labour market is not on par with your own