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antipode12 · Oct 1, 2009, 02:23 PM

Dumb question, I know, but I can't seem to get my heat to work.

I have hot water heat (radiant baseboard) heated through a boiler. The boiler is hot but the baseboard heaters are cold. Also, all exposed pipes leading from and to the boiler are cool to the touch.

All thermostats and circuit breakers are working and on. (2 zones; monoflo piping)

I suspect it is a pipe/pressure/bleeding issue.

Anyone have insight on how to get the heat working?

Thanks!

tickle · Oct 1, 2009, 02:35 PM

Did someone turn off the water (to the system) for the winter months so pipes wouldn't freeze, and hasn't been turned back on ? Just a thought. We turn off our water system not connected of course, to our in house supply, for the winter months.

Tick

antipode12 · Oct 1, 2009, 04:02 PM

I can't imagine anyone did that, but I'll check.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 1, 2009, 04:21 PM

First, is your boiler wired as a hot boiler or cold boiler? If cold(only fires when thermostat calls for heat), then there are three most likely causes. First, low boiler(system) pressure as mentioned above. There should be a press/temp gauge on or near the boiler, let us know what the pressure reads in psi.
Second, air in the system, which will cause pump to not circulate the water..
Third, pump is bad, or not receiving power. Check voltage to pump(should be 120v. Or you can often times hear the pump kick on. If you can give us a litte more info as to what you are experiencing, we will be more than glad to give you advice on this. Really hope we can help you out. Take care, and if you find and fix the problem, please do let us know what it was. Lee.

antipode12 · Oct 1, 2009, 05:12 PM

Thanks for the response.

First, I guess it's a "cold boiler".

Second, how do I tell if there's air in the system?

Third, dumb question, but what is the pump? (This is a hydronic system -- I didn't know it had a pump) I'm attaching a couple of pics -- maybe someone can ID what these units are.

As for electric-- my electrician rewired the boiler this summer, disconnecting and reconnecting the boiler and attached thermostat modules. (He tapped a single outlet off the boiler circuit for summer dehumidifier use.)

There's a second complication: the boiler is attached to an old coal burner. Some of the plumbing runs through the coal burner. Never been a problem before, but... FYI.It may explain some of the hardware in the pics.

antipode12 · Oct 1, 2009, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

Did someone turn off the water (to the system) for the winter months so pipes wouldnt freeze, and hasnt been turned back on ? Just a thought. We turn off our water system not connected of course, to our in house supply, for the winter months.

tick

All the valves are open.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 2, 2009, 03:26 PM

The first pic is your pump/boiler relay controls.
The second pic is three recirculating pumps.

At this point, I will suggest calling in a plumber that is familiar with boilers. They should be able to do all test necessary, and fix the problem whatever it may be. Or you can call in the electrictrician to make sure they wired the boiler correctly, but if all wiring checks out, you will still have to call the plumber to change pumps or bleed air from the system. I say get a plumber in and they should be able to take care of it all.

For me to help you here, it would require a certain knowledge of the operation of a boiler on your part. I really think this may be a little out of your league(no offense, but it takes years and years for pros to learn about this type of system, and its hard to really get to the root of the problem through a keyboard). If you have a friend that is handy with a multimeter, and know a bit about boilers, we will be more than glad to give advice. What ever the case may be,, please do let us know the outcome. Always like to hear that things worked out for you and you got back in heat.

Just in case, check for any switches near the boiler that may be turned off. I the first pic you posted,, you see the two switches that are in the up position,, try turning them to the down position and see what happens. Worth a try, it won't hurt a thing, promise. If it makes no difference, put them back where they were and let us know.

tickle · Oct 2, 2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

the first pic is your pump/boiler relay controls.
the second pic is three recirculating pumps.

.

Great information, but your pics didn't show up for the OP.

Tick

antipode12 · Oct 3, 2009, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

the first pic is your pump/boiler relay controls.
the second pic is three recirculating pumps.

Thanks. Any idea why I would have 3 pumps?

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

for me to help you here, it would require a certain knowledge of the operation of a boiler on your part. I really think this may be a little out of your league(no offense, but it takes years and years for pros to learn about this type of system, and its hard to really get to the root of the problem through a keyboard).

Makes sense. Let me see if I can simplify a little: there are 2 boilers here -- a converted gas boiler and an old coal burner that was added onto the system at a later date. (None of this was me.)

I previously removed the coal's electrical wiring (it was a frankenstein of wirenuts and junction boxes), but inadvertently disconnected the pumps. To get my heat working again, I'll need to reconnect my pumps.

Any ideas if I would need to reconnect all three?

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 3, 2009, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by tickle

great information, but your pics didnt show up for the OP.

tick

I was just pointing out what the OP pictures were.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 3, 2009, 10:47 AM

Antipode, first off, I'm guessing there are three themostats in the house.. Each thermostat controls a separate pump, so yes you need to have all three pumps wired correctly(three zones). This is how it should be, but without seeing it for myself, it really hard to say. Ive seen some pretty crazy things done on boilers by people that didn't have a clue as to what they were doing. Please verify that you have three thermostats in the house, and it will tell me that each one is for a separate pump.

I still say you should get a pro in there to look at your setup. If the coal burner is no longer wired, its doing you no good, I suggest having it completely removed from the system(repiping so that it is not physically connected to the hot water piping). There may be isolation valves to shut off water entering and exiting coal burner, but once again, its most likely going to take an on site visit to get this all cleared up.

Now, you said the pumps were not wired,, this is your main problem as of now, if pumps aren't wired, they can not circulate the water, hence no hot water to registers. Good luck, and keep the questions and updates coming. Lee.

antipode12 · Oct 3, 2009, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the guidance. I'm trying to avoid the plumber if I can help it.

I have 2 thermostats in the house. Perhaps one of the pumps belonged to the coal burner? Or maybe it's residual from before the house was converted to 2 zones. Don't know.

As for the coal, there are shut off valves isolating it, so it should be a non-issue.

In a year or 2, when the gas burner dies (it's an o-l-d oil convert from the 80s) I'll remove both boilers, re-pipe everything cleanly, and hopefully, Franken-boiler will be no more.

Since everything worked before I disconnected the coal burner, I guess I should just re-connect all three pumps, and bite the bullet.

I was just trying to avoid having to do all that re-wiring. It was a real mess of wiring before.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 3, 2009, 11:21 AM

Yep, need to get the pumps wired, but you need to know which pumps are controlled by which thermostats, and need to know what the third pump is for, it is possible that one of the thermostats controls two of the pumps(very likely). Make sure to take the time to do this(or have it done) correctly, or you will have nothing but headaches, trust me. Hot water heat is a very efficient heat, dust free, nice and even heat, but, only if its installed and functioning properly. Wish you the best. Lee.

antipode12 · Oct 3, 2009, 01:12 PM

If you notice in my first picture, there are two thermostat boxes on the boiler. They are prominently marked "1st floor" and "2nd floor." Off to the right, there is a different box -- taller and thin. Out of the picture, on the right, there is a 4th box.

Any idea what there other 2 boxes are?

BTW, the circulator pump on the right of the photo is markedly older (maybe 1960s) than the other 2 (prob 80s or 90s).

medic-dan · Oct 3, 2009, 02:40 PM

Antipode, like mygirlsdad says if you undid all this wiring and disconnected the pumps you may as well start over and do it right. There are zone controllers that will simplify the installation and can even give you some new energy saving features on your old boiler.

How do you make hot water? Do you use the same boiler? I'm thinking the third zone is for hot water.

Follow the pipes and see where they go.

antipode12 · Oct 3, 2009, 02:55 PM

The zone controllers are connected to the boiler still, so I don't want to unravel it all further.

Hot water runs on its own -- gas only.

tickle · Oct 3, 2009, 03:12 PM

I think the OP needs a professional on site to do this !

Tick

medic-dan · Oct 3, 2009, 03:25 PM

OK, I'm not sure what the other box is. Can you post another picture or get a model # off it.

The nearer boxes appear to be Honeywell switching relays. One should work for each zone. When the thermostat calls for heat you should hear a click from unit. A thermostat wire should run to each.

Can you pull the cover and check if you have 120vac to each at the L1 and L2 terminals? The pump is switched using the NO and COM connections.

When the thermostat calls for heat the switching relay is energized. It will start the boiler using the TT terminals on the relay. It will also start the circulator.

antipode12 · Oct 4, 2009, 09:29 AM

I figured out that the skinny box is an "aquastat" and controls the temp of the water, and the non-pictured box is the junction box between the aquastat and the thermostats.

I've got 120v, and am in the process of re-connecting everything properly.

I'll let you know how it goes.

antipode12 · Oct 4, 2009, 04:20 PM

OK, so a lot of trial and error, but I figured out which thermostat connected to which pump. I reconnected everything as it was originally, and all is good in the world.

Thanks everyone.

However, now the system is dripping water from the overflow pipe. I began a new thread: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/heatin...pe-402630.html