[jmjoseph]

Sounds like the crossroad between her biological father, and her sugar daddy. Sorry, dude. It just sounds like a digger. It's not that you should keep it a secret, but the fact that she wants to know before she commits. Maybe you should show her your W-2, then the door.

True love has no financial bracket, or income range.

[Justwantfair]

Sounds like the crossroad between her biological father, and her sugar daddy. Sorry, dude. It just sounds like a digger. It's not that you should keep it a secret, but the fact that she wants to know before she commits. Maybe you should show her your W-2, then the door.

True love has no financial bracket, or income range.

She has been committed for the last year and a half, why would a 'digger' stay that long?
He apparently is not raining gifts on her because he is trying to hide his income.
She just finished graduate school, it's like like she doesn't have the potential to earn her own salary.

How about that she wants to know because it has been his year and a half secret. She has to already have an idea, but she has been there and he has been in this relationship this whole time. So is the concept that she was after money, so she should stick around for a year and a half to find out what his income was like.

I would have a bigger concern that for him this relationship is all about money after a year and a half and I here nothing mentioned about love. Those are the bigger flags then her wanting to settle down.

[asking]

Why is it so important after a year and half for her to suddenly know how much you make.

I can answer this one.

It's important for Water Fire to tell her because she now feels like he doesn't trust her. I'm betting she's wondering what his problem is. I sure am.

If he's still imposing his issues with the last relationship on his relationship with her, he is not ready for the "next step," whatever that is (marriage? Moving in? Engagement? ). I think she's right. And a "range" is still too coy by half. The more he says in this thread, the more convinced I am that she has every reason to wonder why he doesn't trust her.

He's the one who is being secretive for no obvious reason. And she's become impatient with this game. If he's playing games like this when she is asking in all seriousness, he's not ready for a real relationship. Nobody can force him to marry her (so what's he worried about? ), and she's the one who needs to make a decision right now.

If Fire Water thinks women only want his paycheck and he has to hide the big number in order for them to "prove their love," then he needs to work on his self esteem before he's ready for a serious relationship.

[chuff]

I can answer this one.

It's important for Water Fire to tell her because she now feels like he doesn't trust her.

Why should he? If she's dated him for a year and half and can't find happiness in him without know what he makes then she shouldn't be trusted.

I'm betting she's wondering what his problem is. I sure am.

His "problem" is he doesn't want to get used for his money.

If he's still imposing his issues with the last relationship on his relationship with her, he is not ready for the "next step," whatever that is (marriage? moving in? engagement??). I think she's right. And a "range" is still too coy by half. The more he says in this thread, the more convinced I am that she has every reason to wonder why he doesn't trust her.

Ironically, the more he says in this thread I agree she is the one that has some issue. Why is it so important for her to know how much he makes... especially since she makes zero. She can't after all this time take the next step, (I agree with you I have no idea what that means) based on him, but his paycheck. I would hestitate to trust her as well.

He's the one who is being secretive for no obvious reason.

He stated he doesn't want to get used for his money. Plus she told him their relationship was based on it. So the reasons seem quite clear.

And she's become impatient with this game. If he's playing games like this when she is asking in all seriousness, he's not ready for a real relationship.

How is it a game when SHE is the one that brought this up. He isn't going around saying, "guess how much I make....I'm not going to tell you" over and over. If a game is being played, it's by the woman how holds the relationship up based on how much he can do for her based on his check.

Nobody can force him to marry her (so what's he worried about??), and she's the one who needs to make a decision right now.

While we still haven't figured out what the next step is. She needs to make a decision on him, not his wallet. If she can't then there is seriously something wrong with her. I understand a woman wants a man with a job and wants a provider, which he has demonstrated he will be able to do. But now she needs to know the exact amount to determine her future? Sounds like a gold digger to me.

If Fire Water thinks women only want his paycheck and he has to hide the big number in order for them to "prove their love," then he needs to work on his self esteem before he's ready for a serious relationship.

I guess I missed him saying they needed to prove their love. I thought he just wanted to make sure his relationship that he values was based on the same value system from her perspective. He's offered of himself for sometime and never expressed to her that he needs her to get a job and support him so it sure does come off strange when she says after all this time, the relationship will now continue or disolve based on his check.

[CFZD]

OP,

How come she doesn't make any money?
Why would you date someone who makes no money?

[asking]

Chuff,
You may have misunderstood my point, which was that her question is about him being open, not about the substance of the question. If he refused to say whether his parents were alive, I think she'd be asking him about that. If he refused to say where he grew up, she'd be asking about that. If he refused to say where he worked, I bet that'd be the question.

So it's not about a dollar figure; it's about his secretiveness. He knows how much she makes... That level of openness should be reciprocated if he expects her to make plans to accommodate their relationship.

[talaniman]

If a guy doesn't know what he has got after a year and a half, he just isn't paying attention, same for a female.

No trust = one lousy relationship.

[snow124]

I understand you're apprehensive because of the behavior of your ex... but this girl isn't your ex. Now, if she starts demanding lavish gifts after you disclose your income precisely, show her the door. But I doubt that would be the case. I certainly wouldn't advance in a relationship if my SO was so dodgy about how much she made.

[winding200]

Water_fire,
Do you know you are creepy? If you can not share the simple number after 1 & half yrs of committed relationship, what can you possibly share with her in future? Your girlfriend has masters degree, very marketable, and will land on a good job soon. However, you do not trust her at all. What are you afraid of actually? Do you think she will not search the job hard, and live off you? If you think every girl is trying to steal your money, please stay away from them forever. You are not ready for next step, or real love at all. Please be a reasonable man first, and open up.

Love is about sharing. When a man & woman are in love, they worship each other, they want to share everything with each other (time, energy, passion, interest, future, knowledge, wealth, etc), and continuously give more to make each other happy.

What I see is you are chronically & emotionally stingy & insecure, and do not know how to trust anyone. It is a really serious problem. She is not looking for your money, but your willingness, honesty, openness & generosity toward the relationship. Do you think she is the one you can share everything with or not?

[jmjoseph]

Water_fire,
Do you know you are creepy? If you can not share the simple number after 1 & half yrs of committed relationship, what can you possibly share with her in future? Your gf has masters degree, very marketable, and will land on a good job soon. However, you do not trust her at all. What are you afraid of actually? Do you think she will not search the job hard, and live off you? If you think every girl is trying to steal your money, please stay away from them forever. You are not ready for next step, or real love at all. Please be a reasonable man first, and open up.

Love is about sharing. When a man & woman are in love, they worship each other, they want to share everything with each other (time, energy, passion, interest, future, knowledge, wealth, etc), and continuously give more to make each other happy.

What I see is you are chronically & emotionally stingy & insecure, and do not know how to trust anyone. It is a really serious problem. She is not looking for your money, but your willingness, honesty, openness & generosity toward the relationship. Do you think she is the one you can share everything with or not?

Creepy? Stingy? Insecure? " stay away from them forever" ? This is help?

[asking]

In this case, yes. I think he needs to hear the other side. He seems convinced that women are all after men's money. Stingy and insecure is exactly how he comes across. However, OP has not been back, so I suspect he got the answer he wanted early on, which is that she must be after his money.

I kind of doubt that women who are after a rich guy bother with the whole graduate school routine. Too much work!

[Justwantfair]

I kind of doubt that women who are after a rich guy bother with the whole graduate school routine. Too much work!

I completely second that notion.
That's a whole lot of work to want to stay at home and live off someone else!

[talaniman]

I have seen baggage from the past destroy good relationships of the future. If your not willing to overcome your fears, and take a risk, on a partner, you will get nothing but disappointment, and failure. If you want a future with anyone you have to be able to share your most intimate details with that partner. I think its ridicules to be with someone a year and a half, and still harbor those kinds of reservations about them.

This whole relationship will wind down, as how can there be a future without trust, and confidence, and a willingness to work together through HONEST communications? I just don't see it.

[winding200]

Creepy? Stingy? Insecure? " stay away from them forever" ? This is help?

Yes, in my best knowledge, it will be really helpful to hear the truth from outsider for him. Women are not after men's money. Women are equally motivated, work hard to be financially independent. If he think all women are seeing men for money, it is really insulting. As we can see, she worked hard, completed her high education for future, and dedicated herself to him for 1 and half years. However, he does not trust her, cautious about her intention, make excuses from the past experience, and accuse her as gold digger even before they go to the next level. As other members agree, it is really ridiculous.

I agree with Tal, this relationship will not be a smooth sailing. He has no trust or faith on her. He is emotionally stingy, cannot even share the intimate information with his long term girlfriend, and still not sure about her & relationship due to his insecurity EVEN AFTER 1 and half years. I just cannot believe he think she went through all the hard work for high education to live off him. It does not make any sense.

If he thinks all women are after his money not for love, he better stay away from them to protect himself. Why does he bother to stay with people he does not trust & afraid of ripped off? What is he trying to say here? "I can sleep with you for 1 and half years, but i cannot trust you?" There is no real intimacy. His brain is cold enough not to develop the "true intimacy" even after 1 and half years of exclusive relationship. It is creepy. I cannot think of any other word.

If he is in love head to toe, he would not do this. I believe he does not love her enough to take a risk for next level.

[jmjoseph]

Yes, in my best knowledge, it will be really helpful to hear the truth from outsider for him. Women are not after men's money. Women are equally motivated, work hard to be financially independent. If he think all women are seeing men for money, it is really insulting. As we can see, she worked hard, completed her high education for future, and dedicated herself to him for 1 and half years. However, he does not trust her, cautious about her intention, make excuses from the past experience, and accuse her as gold digger even before they go to the next level. As other members agree, it is really ridiculous.

I agree with Tal, this relationship will not be a smooth sailing. He has no trust or faith on her. He is emotionally stingy, cannot even share the intimate information with his long term gf, and still not sure about her & relationship due to his insecurity EVEN AFTER 1 and half years. I just cannot believe he think she went through all the hard work for high education to live off him. It does not make any sense.

If he thinks all women are after his money not for love, he better stay away from them to protect himself. Why does he bother to stay with people he does not trust & afraid of ripped off? What is he trying to say here? "I can sleep with you for 1 and half years, but i cannot trust you?" There is no real intimacy. His brain is cold enough not to develop the "true intimacy" even after 1 and half years of exclusive relationship. It is creepy. I cannot think of any other word.

If he is in love head to toe, he would not do this. I belive he does not love her enough to take a risk for next level.

His point, and many here also, is that why would she NEED to know the exact amount BEFORE she commits any further? If she loves him unconditionally, she should love him making minimum wage.

[talaniman]

Or if he loves her unconditionally, what's the problem??

[jmjoseph]

Or if he loves her unconditionally, whats the problem???

Comments on this post
asking agrees: This is why I said he was asking her to prove her love. He expects her to trust him but he does not trust her with this relatively trivial bit of information. It is insulting and destroys intimacy.
__________________
This is turning into a "who's on first" routine. They're going back and forth, not getting anywhere. Maybe they ARE made for each other after all.

[asking]

Water_Fire has already stated that he will not tell her because he does not trust her. At the same time, he argues that if she really loves him, she will still trust HIM, even though he withholds information for the sole reason that he does not trust her. The trust is expected to be all on her side.

[asking]

With apologies to Andrew Marvell

To Her Coy Mister

Had we but world enough, and time,
This coyness, my man, were no crime.
We would sit down and think which way
To walk, and pass our long love's day;
Thou by the Hudson's side
Shouldst hedge funds find; I by the tide
Of Thames would complain. I would
Love you ten years before the Flood;
And you should, if you please, refuse
Till the conversion of the Jews.
My vegetable love should grow
Vaster than empires, and more slow.
An hundred years should go to praise
Thine biceps, and on thy six pack gaze;
Two hundred to adore each witty remark,
But thirty thousand to the rest;
An age at least to every part,
And the last age should show your heart.
For, my man, you deserve this state,
Nor would I love at lower rate.

But at my back I always hear
Time's biological clock hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Fields of women rusted and nunned.
Thy wit shall no more be found,
Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound
My echoing song; then worms shall try
That long preserv'd trust fund,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust.
The grave's a fine and private place,
But none I think do there embrace.

[inertia]

Money is important. No way around it. So is religion, family, education etc. Women aren't gold diggers just because they want financial stablity. That being said, ladies, I have noticed many of you seek the answer to this question a bit too early. It would be similar to a man asking you if your mom is fat in the first few months.