[paraclete]

Thanks, but I don't need your permission to live my life the way I want to. You may place whatever restrictions on your own life that you wish. Go right ahead. But keep me out of it. I will not tolerate other mammalian primates telling me how to live my life because of what their god supposedly told them. No.

Perhaps you can undestand my point by looking at it this way: Imagine a racist church that taught that those of African descent were second class citizens, second class human beings (it's not as far-fetched as you might think...some churches have taught this in the past) and, although such a church allowed blacks into their churches, what if they refused to ordain them as pastors, refused to allow them to take communion, made them sit in segregated seating in the church building, refused to allow them to marry and taught that they had to remain celibate their entire lives? Who would put up with such an institution? Who would sit still for that? No self-respecting person of African descent would for 5 seconds. This is exactly what is going in with gay people in the church. Our right to exist is denied for a condition we did not choose and cannot change and should not want to change (did it ever dawn on you that many gay men actually like being gay and are glad they are not straight?).

I think your analogy is incorrect, racism is wrong and also proscribed in Christain Scripture. Paul tells us that in Christ there is no longer Jew or Gentile (dealing with race), male or female (dealing with gender) but he didn't tell us there was no longer sin (actions against the wishes of God). Just because there have been people who interpreted the Scriptures for their own purposes does not invalidate them, rather it is a consequence of giving access to the Scriptures to a select few and lording it over the people

I don't doubt gays may like what they do and so are unrepentant, so do hetrosexuals who perform licencious acts, it doesn't make them right. Restrictions are placed on you is when you seek Christian fellowship but also seek to continue your lifestyle. You must realise that what you are objecting to is that anyone should suggest that your alternative lifestyle is outside God's ordinances. You argument is with God not me, don't shoot the messenger, but realise that when God decided Adam needed a companion he did not provide a male companion because his purpose was that the planet should be populated. The relationship you speak of produces no offspring, it is self centred not God centred.

[cadillac59]

I think your analogy is incorrect, racism is wrong and also proscribed in Christain Scripture. Paul tells us that in Christ there is no longer Jew or Gentile (dealing with race), male or female (dealing with gender) but he didn't tell us there was no longer sin (actions against the wishes of God). Just because there have been people who interpreted the Scriptures for their own purposes does not invalidate them, rather it is a consequence of giving access to the Scriptures to a select few and lording it over the people

I don't doubt gays may like what they do and so are unrepentant, so do hetrosexuals who perform licencious acts, it doesn't make them right. Restrictions are placed on you is when you seek Christian fellowship but also seek to continue your lifestyle. You must realise that what you are objecting to is that anyone should suggest that your alternative lifestyle is outside God's ordinances. You argument is with God not me, don't shoot the messenger, but realise that when God decided Adam needed a companion he did not provide a male companion because his purpose was that the planet should be populated. The relationship you speak of produces no offspring, it is self centred not God centred.

My argument is with the god of your imagination and invention you mean. Of course I might be arguing with any number of other people's mythical god as well, but frankly I'm not too concerned about that, anymore than you would be if a Mormon told you his god was angry with you for not accepting Joseph Smith's teachings.

You're not seriously making that fatuous argument about the purpose of sex being baby-making are you? I'll keep it in mind to scold a childless heterosexual married couple for having sex without doing their duty of reproducing next chance I get.

What did you say, a relationship that produces no offspring is self-centered not god-centered? Ahem. Right. Tell it to post-menopausal women who still have the audacity to have sex or to men who have had vasectomies or use condoms. Self-centered all the way. Right?

And you wonder why thinking individuals don't take people like you seriously?

[arcura]

OK Fellas, let's get back to the subject of this thread; The Biocentric Universe.
Do you believe that life created it or that life could do so?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[paraclete]

OK Fellas, let's get back to the subject of this thread; The Biocentric Universe.
Do you believe that life created it or that life could do so?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred we know the answer is 42, that is the answer to life, the universe and all that, and should you require a translation I will be happy to give it to you.

Just to address some details, life as we know it, that is biological life could not have created the universe.

[cadillac59]

Fred we know the answer is 42, that is the answer to life, the universe and all that, and should you require a translation I will be happy to give it to you.

Just to address some details, life as we know it, that is biological life could not have created the universe.

Even if you say "god did it" that only gets you to deism (an impersonal god that does not intervene in human affairs), not that childish Adam and Eve fairytale that your god of the Middle East that promotes slavery, genocide and other barbarisms, invented my a group of ignorant homophobic and racist sheepherders who thought the earth was flat, is the right one. Give me a break.

[arcura]

paraclete,
The answer is 42?
Please explain that. Enlighten me.
Thanks,
Fred

[cadillac59]

paraclete,
The answer is 42?
Please explain that. Enlighten me.
Thanks,
Fred

The answer is 42--just about as rational as the answer to my questions about Christian homophobia.

[arcura]

cadillac59,
It seems that way but I'll wait to see paraclete's answer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[galveston]

I'v noticed through the years that those who choose to follow a lifestyle that is condemned by the Bible always choose to attack the veracity of it, especially the supernatural aspects.

However, since the supernatural aspects are still with us today, that approach merely shows a closed mind and only proves the prejudices of that mind.

The OP asked (if I understand it properly) is, which came first?

To inject the issue of perverted sex is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

[NeedKarma]

The answer is 42?
Please explain that. Enlighten me.

Phrases from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Consider yourself Enlightened.

[DrJ]

I have a feeling that this isn't the Ultimate Question... just saying.


Anyway, did "life create life"? Well, to even begin down that road (yes, NK... one of 42 that a man must walk down :D) we would have to determine what constitutes "life". There are many definitions of the word "life". However, with such a question as this, you have to use the same definition for both instances of the word.

So what constitutes life? Is God alive.. The same way that we are alive.. The same way that a rock is alive.. The same way that space particles are alive..

[cadillac59]

I'v noticed through the years that those who choose to follow a lifestyle that is condemned by the Bible always choose to attack the veracity of it, especially the supernatural aspects.

However, since the supernatural aspects are still with us today, that approach merely shows a closed mind and only proves the prejudices of that mind.

The OP asked (if I understand it properly) is, which came first?

To inject the issue of perverted sex is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

As a Christian, your idea of "perverted sex" is a married couple having sex with no intention of baby-making or no ability to do so. Right? I just heard someone identifying as a Christian say that.

[galveston]

As a Christian, your idea of "perverted sex" is a married couple having sex with no intention of baby-making or no ability to do so. Right? I just heard someone identifying as a Christian say that.

Your argument is weak, to say the least.

The primary reason for hetro sex is for the purpose of reproduction. Obviously, if there was no pleasure in it, there would be no people on this planet. So, yes, there are is a secondary reason for sex.

If everyone shared your opinion, you wouldn't even be here. And there will be no one carrying on your personal family line, you are the end of the line. Personal extinction!

That is sort of like that hole in the water that remains after you take your finger out, ain't it?

[cadillac59]

Your argument is weak, to say the least.

The primary reason for hetro sex is for the purpose of reproduction. Obviously, if there was no pleasure in it, there would be no people on this planet. So, yes, there are is a secondary reason for sex.

If everyone shared your opinion, you wouldn't even be here. And there will be no one carrying on your personal family line, you are the end of the line. Personal extinction!

That is sorta like that hole in the water that remains after you take your finger out, ain't it?

Excuse me. It's not an opinion. It's a reality. There are and always have been gay people in the world. And there always will be. It's a normal and naturally occurring state of being in human beings (not to mention other species as well). Reproduction is something that not everyone chooses. That's got nothing to do with morality.

Incidentally, many gay people in the world do in fact have children and have reproduced. Does that make you feel better?

[DrJ]

Sooooo... about that whole Biocentric Universe thing...

[arcura]

galveston,
I agree with you.
Fred

[MollieB327]

I read an article in the May issue of Discover magazine entitled The Biocentric Universe.
It was about, “A radical new view of reality: Life creates time, space, and the cosmos itself.”
First of all I don’t believe that is a new idea, for the God of life who created all life created everything else.
But In the article I found many statements which made little of some of the other theories such as the spring theory and those of many universes.
It also made use of quantum physics and quantum mechanics which has caused some scientist to believe that there is a supreme mind or being involved in the creation of the universe.
Being a believer in Intelligent Design I found much of the article to be very interesting. One such part mentioned the idea that the universe started out and came to be what it is today strictly by chance which mathematically is impossible.
Also mentioned were the several seemingly impossible things going on in the subatomic world like particles appearing out of nowhere and disappearing and the fact that observing a particle will cause it to react to being observed and that being in one place that will cause its twin to react in the same way even if miles apart.
Though the article did not deal with the idea of a supreme life bringing all we can see and witness into being I found that the article did that without mentioning it. That is typical of much of science not willing to give God credit for anything I thought.
Yes, I do believe that life created life and everything else, do you?
If so, why so? If not, why not?
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

Well, it is certainly circular logic if ever I have heard it! I am a science major with a Masters and a devout Christian. I have found that contrary to popular belief, most scientists are Christians! The problem seems to be that a lot of Christian sects cannot believe in science.

I would say to them that their God is to small! The Big Band theory fits perfectly with the Biblical account of the Creation of the Earth and Heaven. And do the really believe that an Eternal God operates on a 24-hour day. I purpose they rethink that supposition

A simple answer to "did life create life and everything else" Sure! The next logical question is "Where did the original life come from?" For me - that is a no brainer!

Mollie "I, for one, do not believe two molecules got together just to dance!"

[MollieB327]

I read an article in the May issue of Discover magazine entitled The Biocentric Universe.
It was about, “A radical new view of reality: Life creates time, space, and the cosmos itself.”
First of all I don’t believe that is a new idea, for the God of life who created all life created everything else.
But In the article I found many statements which made little of some of the other theories such as the spring theory and those of many universes.
It also made use of quantum physics and quantum mechanics which has caused some scientist to believe that there is a supreme mind or being involved in the creation of the universe.
Being a believer in Intelligent Design I found much of the article to be very interesting. One such part mentioned the idea that the universe started out and came to be what it is today strictly by chance which mathematically is impossible.
Also mentioned were the several seemingly impossible things going on in the subatomic world like particles appearing out of nowhere and disappearing and the fact that observing a particle will cause it to react to being observed and that being in one place that will cause its twin to react in the same way even if miles apart.
Though the article did not deal with the idea of a supreme life bringing all we can see and witness into being I found that the article did that without mentioning it. That is typical of much of science not willing to give God credit for anything I thought.
Yes, I do believe that life created life and everything else, do you?
If so, why so? If not, why not?
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

Well, it is certainly circuitous logic if ever I have heard it! I am a science major with a Masters and a devout Christian. I have found that contrary to popular belief, most scientists are Christians! The problem seems to be that a lot of Christian sects cannot believe in science.

I would say to them that their God is to small! The Big Bang theory fits perfectly with the Biblical account of the Creation of the Earth and Heaven. And do they really believe that an Eternal God operates on a 24-hour day. I purpose they rethink that supposition

A simple answer to "did life create life and everything else" Sure! The next logical question is "Where did the original life come from?" For me - that is a no brainer!

Mollie "I, for one, do not believe two molecules got together just to dance!"

[arcura]

MollieB327,
Thanks much for toy post on this.
I agree that life created life and everything else.
It was the author of life and existence that did the work.
I believe He designed it to become what we see today.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[cadillac59]

galveston,
I agree with you.
Fred

You agree with him about what? Just curious.