[ETWolverine]

French pool bars Muslim woman for 'burquini' suit

By MARIA DANILOVA, Associated Press Writer Maria Danilova, Associated Press Writer

PARIS – A Muslim woman garbed in a head-to-toe swimsuit — dubbed a "burquini" — may have opened a new chapter in France's tussle between religious practices and its stern secular code.
Officials insisted Wednesday they banned the woman's use of the Islam-friendly suit at a local pool because of France's pool hygiene standards — not out of hostility to overtly Muslim garb.
Under the policy, swimmers are not allowed in pools with baggy clothing, including surfer-style shorts. Only figure-hugging suits are permitted.
Nonetheless the woman, a 35-year-old convert to Islam identified only as Carole, complained of religious discrimination after trying to go swimming in a "burquini," a full-body swimsuit, in the town of Emerainville, southeast of Paris.
She was quoted as telling the daily Le Parisien newspaper that she had bought the burquini after deciding "it would allow me the pleasure of bathing without showing too much of myself, as Islam recommends."
"For me this is nothing but segregation," she said.
The issue of religious attire is a hot topic in France, where head-to-toe burqas or other full-body coverings worn by some Muslim fundamentalists are in official disfavor.
France is home to western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at 5 million, and Islam is the nation's second religion after Roman Catholicism.
A 2004 law banning the wearing of Muslim head scarves at public schools sparked fierce debate. That legislation also banned Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses in public classrooms.
French lawmakers recently revived the issue of Muslim dress with a proposal that the burqa and other voluminous Muslim attire be banned.
President Nicolas Sarkozy, a conservative, backs the move, saying such garb makes women prisoners.
The "burquini" covers the arms to the wrists and the legs to the ankle and has a hood to cover neck and hair.
An official in charge of swimming pools for the Emerainville region, Daniel Guillaume, said the refusal to allow the local woman to swim in her "burquini" had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with public health standards.
"These clothes are used in public, so they can contain molecules, viruses, et cetera, which will go in the water and could be transmitted to other bathers," Guillaume said in a telephone interview.
"We reminded this woman that one should not bathe all dressed, just as we would tell someone who is a nudist not to bathe all naked," he said.
Guillaume said France's public health standards require all pool-goers to don swimsuits for women and tight, swimming briefs for men — and caps to cover their hair. Bathers also must shower before entering the water.
Guillaume said Carole had tried to file a complaint at a local police station, but her request was turned down as groundless.

Carole told the daily Le Parisien she would protest with the help of anti-discrimination groups.
Emerainville Mayor Alan Kelyor said he could not understand why the woman would want to swim in head-to-toe clothes.
"We are going back in civilization," he said by telephone. Women have fought for decades for equal rights with men, he said. "Now we are putting them back in burqas and veils."
The suits have a clear market.
Women "jump on the occasion so they can swim with their families. Otherwise, they end up staying on the beach and watching," said Leila Mouhoubia, who runs an online site from France that specializes in the sale of Islamic swimsuits. Sales, she said, are strong.
"I think it's forbidden (in France) because it presents an image of the Muslim woman (and) they have prejudices against Muslims," she said by telephone. "They want women to be undressed."
Mouloud Aounit, head of the anti-racism group known as MRAP, said the decision to ban Carole from the pool appeared fair, since pool authorities were observing regulations. But Aounit lamented that the incident was likely to fuel religious tensions.
"The rules must be the same for everybody, regardless of the color of their skin or their religion," Aounit said. "The concern I have is that this case will again lead to stigmatization of the Muslim population in France."
The all-body suits, worn regularly by some women in Muslim countries, are growing popular in the West. They can be seen on female Muslim lifeguards on Australian beaches, in the United States and various European countries, from the Netherlands to Sweden — which OKed them after two women won discrimination cases last year.
__________
Associated Press Writers Rod McGuirk in Sydney, Australia, Melissa Eddy in Berlin, Germany, Malin Rising in Stockholm, Sweden, Ian MacDougall in Oslo, Norway, and Toby Sterlin in Amsterdam, the Netherlands contributed to this report. (This version CORRECTS headlines to "French pool" sted "Paris pool.")

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.

French pool bars Muslim woman for 'burquini' suit - Yahoo! News

I am no particular friend of the Muslim community. But to me, this smacks of religious descrimination.

I have known cases where Muslims have manufactured cases of religious descrimination in order to push a political agenda. But somehow this doesn't have that sort of feel to me. It feels like a targeted policy meant to exclude certain people. And it's not like the French don't have a long history of religious descrimination, but using other excuses to pull it off. (The Dreyfus Affair comes to mind, but that is just one case of many.)

Can anyone explain why baggy clothing might be considered a hygene issue where tight clothing wouldn't? And if not, can anyone explain why the pool would have such a policy in place OTHER than to exclude certain people? Are there some facts that the article does not make me aware of?

I hate to say it, but I agree with the Muslims on this one based on my reading of THIS ARTICLE.

Comments please?

Elliot

[spitvenom]

ET, I think I am going to have to agree with you on this one. If anything they should allow baggy clothes. Have you ever been to disney world and all the old fat french guys are wearing banana hammocks. They don't seem to hygienic to me. Also I attached a picture of a burquini.

[simoneaugie]

Guillaum sounds as if he could make diamonds if he ate coal.

Do they have written, published studies to support the pool rules? Because, if more chlorine must be added to the water to accommodate the swimwear then it is a problem. If no more germs are present in the burquini than in a swimsuit with exposed skin then it does constitute discrimination.

The discrimination, if that is what we're dealing with, is not only religious but also sexist in my mind. Germs, then are not the problem, expectations are.

[hheath541]

I would honestly consider wearing something like that to swim in. not because I'm muslim, because I'm not, but because I burn easily and sunscreen always feels greasy.

I see no reason why an outfit like that would contain any more germs than a speedo.

[paraclete]

Of course it's discrimination but the French do it so well. The French discriminate against everyone who is not French, must be hundreds of years of living next to the English.

It's part of the not made here syndrome, it wasn't a french idea, so.

I come from a place where people wear what they want to go swimming, some cover is required but after that. This is such a beat up and a non event.

[speechlesstx]

I'm not sure how they can claim it's a hygiene issue... but then we are talking about the French. Do they not chlorinate the pools in France? How many French urinate in the pool?

I don't see any need to ban burqas, that does smack of religious discrimination. On the other hand, at least the French aren't throwing Islamic women under the bus like Obama did in Cairo.

[firmbeliever]

The buruqini is made of swimsuit material,it isn't like the women wear it around town like regular clothes before swimming in it.

[tomder55]

This is discrimination pure and simple. And if I can't wear baggy swim suits I'd rather not go into the pool. Me in speedos is not a pretty picture.

[tomder55]

Then again... there are some people who don't look good in baggies either

[ETWolverine]

ROTFLMAO

Was that a picture of Ted Kennedy?

[ETWolverine]

I really see no difference between a burkini (as pictured in Spitvenom's post #2) and a wetsuit that might be used by a surfer.

So, yeah... as I thought. This is descrimination.

Elliot

[tomder55]

ROTFLMAO

Was that a picture of Ted Kennedy?

Yup ;the paragon of health who's model of universal health care is lurking in the Senate waiting to be sprung once the House version is dissected .
Dissecting the Kennedy Health Bill - WSJ.com

It specifically exempts him and hs cronies in Congress from participation ;leaving them the option of continuing their gold plated tax payer subsidized options.

[speechlesstx]

Most people in a speedo is not a pretty picture. I think the burquini looks quite fashionable actually. Much nicer than what some bathing beauties used to wear...

[cal823]

Sounds like france has some really weird hygene laws.
But I do not see that as discrimination. It does appear to have some baggy sections (parts of the hood and that overlapping skirty bit).
The Hood could easily be redesigned to fit like a swimcap and the skirty bit shortened a fair bit. It would still cover everything.
Of course, it would be better if french health authorities would stop being so anal and just ditch those ridiculous hygene laws. Here in Australia we have no such regulation against baggy clothes. Board Shorts/ Swim trunks are very popular over here. Speedos are gross, especially with really gross fat old men with their boners visible through the speedos walking around(no offense intended to anyone, I'm sure gross fat middle aged men are wonderful people too) I seriously doubt that baggy swimmers has any effect on my physical health, but speedos can have a serious effect on my mental health. (What has been seen cannot be unseen)

[tickle]

of course it's discrimination but the French do it so well. The French discriminate against everyone who is not French, must be hundreds of years of living next to the English.

It's part of the not made here syndrome, it wasn't a french idea, so.

I come from a place where people wear what they want to go swimming, some cover is required but after that. This is such a beat up and a non event.

I prefer swimming in what god gave me (no this insnt a religious post !). :eek:

Ms tick

[ETWolverine]

I prefer swimming in what god gave me (no this insnt a religious post !). :eek:

ms tick

So do I. G-d gave me enough money to buy a swimsuit. :cool:

[tickle]

So do I. G-d gave me enough money to buy a swimsuit. :cool:

:p I am glad you and I can agree on something so basic. Have a great day ET !

Tick

[handyamby]

I just went to a water park this weekend and many muslim people were wearing just there regular head to toe burkas they had worn all day. No one had one of theseburkinis and I wish they did have them because I am sure the cleanliness of the water was affected by the clothes. Many people dressed head to toe had an odor, (because it was exceptionally hot and humid and anyone fully dressed would smell), all to be rinsed off in the pools and water slides. Not to mention the residual dyes and laundry detergent.

[excon]

ROTFLMAO Was that a picture of Ted Kennedy?

Hello El:

That wasn't YOU making fun of the fat guy, was it?? Nahhh. Even you aren't that brave.

excon

[ETWolverine]

Hello El:

That wasn't YOU making fun of the fat guy, was it??? Nahhh. Even you aren't that brave.

excon

Yeah, it was.

What... should I be afraid that the CIA's going to send a copy of this to Ted Kennedy and he's going to send his goon squad after me?

Anyone who lets a picture like that into the public venue DESERVES to be laughed at.

There are reasons that I don't have any pictures of myself in swim trunks.

Elliot