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secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 08:42 AM

I had a friend who committed suicide a week ago. He done it beause of bipolar and schizophrenia, which 'god' gave him. How do we know that this wasn't the plan by god, that this was his way to go?

450donn · Jan 20, 2009, 09:00 AM

OK, lets look at it this way. If you take a gun, stick the barrel in your mouth and pull the trigger committing suicide. You have in fact committed murder am I right or wrong? So if you have just blown your brains all over the walls, how if you are dead can you ask for forgiveness for your sins? So as I see it, if you commit suicide there is really no way for you to repent for this sin and therefore you will In my opinion be going to Hell with no stops.

jakester · Jan 20, 2009, 09:01 AM

secret_123 -

May I ask how you found this post? Did you do a search on the keyword suicide?

I have good reason to ask so if you wouldn't mind, please let me know.

Thanks.

450donn · Jan 20, 2009, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by secret_123

i had a friend who committed suicide a week ago. he done it beause of bipolar and schizophrenia, which 'god' gave him. how do we know that this wasnt the plan by god, that this was his way to go?

God does not give bad gifts. Your friend was born into an imperfect world to imperfect parents. That is why he had the disease. He and his parents had a choice to use his disabilities as a blessing or not. Suicide was his choice. I am sorry for that loss, but it was still his choice to make.
I have friends who after losing one child in the womb discovered that their next child was going to have downs syndrome. They could have chooses to abort, but instead gave birth and for the last 16 years have done what ever was necessary for that child. Considering it a gift and a blessing to have that child in their lives. People have choices to make. You cannot blame God for the bad choices that man make.

ketch22 · Jan 20, 2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

God does not give bad gifts. Your friend was born into an imperfect world to imperfect parents. That is why he had the disease. He and his parents had a choice to use his disabilities as a blessing or not. Suicide was his choice. I am sorry for that loss, but it was still his choice to make.
I have friends who after loosing one child in the womb discovered that their next child was going to have downs syndrome. They could have chooses to abort, but instead gave birth and for the last 16 years have done what ever was necessary for that child. Considering it a gift and a blessing to have that child in their lives. People have choices to make. You cannot blame God for the bad choices that man make.

I somewhat disagree here. I agree that God does not give bad gifts... however, He does allow disease. When somebody has a mental disease so bad and he commits suicide, we cannot place the blame solely on the individual who is not capable of making his own decisions. This is where God's grace comes in. Only God knows when somebody is responsible.

secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

God does not give bad gifts. Your friend was born into an imperfect world to imperfect parents. That is why he had the disease. He and his parents had a choice to use his disabilities as a blessing or not. Suicide was his choice. I am sorry for that loss, but it was still his choice to make.
I have friends who after loosing one child in the womb discovered that their next child was going to have downs syndrome. They could have chooses to abort, but instead gave birth and for the last 16 years have done what ever was necessary for that child. Considering it a gift and a blessing to have that child in their lives. People have choices to make. You cannot blame God for the bad choices that man make.

So your willing to say god gives everything that is right, but not willing to accept that he gives bad things as well. You think that god gives all gifts anf the like, but he is not responsible for the bad things in the world? Wake up. My friend was given these illnesses by 'god' and these illnesses are what caused his death. How can you use bipolar and depression as a gift? He was down his illness gave him a distorted mind thinking no one loved him and that his life was over anyway even if he was still alive. You belevegod has contol over eveything, but you can't accept that it was his fault he has these illnesses. What he had was the same as someone who has cancer, or any type of disease, and this was his disease that caused his death

secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by jakester

secret_123 -

may I ask how you found this post? Did you do a search on the keyword suicide?

I have good reason to ask so if you wouldn't mind, please let me know.

Thanks.

I was on someone else's profile thingo were you can see comments and stuff made and I saw one about it so I went on. Why is that?

450donn · Jan 20, 2009, 06:45 PM

Let me ask you this. Does or has your father ever given you a bad gift?
The gift you are trying to blame on God was not and never could be from God, Sorry for your loss, but you are speaking irrationally.

secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Let me ask you this. Does or has your father ever given you a bad gift?
The gift you are trying to blame on God was not and never could be from God, Sorry for your loss, but you are speaking irrationally.

And why couldn't I t be from god. Your willing to accept all the good things and say oph that's god for everything ood in life, so whose to say that he doesn't also create the bad things?

450donn · Jan 20, 2009, 07:02 PM

Secret,
If you are going to pursue this line of questioning, please post it as another question. Your interference in the OP's question is unfair to the OP.

Fr_Chuck · Jan 20, 2009, 07:16 PM

Moved to its own thread.
Since it was not fair to OP and it was a old thread

In response, God is blamed for way too much, Satan is still alive and well on earth and man has sickness and pain and suffering because of the evil that is in this world. God gave man free will which also allows things to happen.

We want to blame God for things when we don't like what happened and think someone has to be at fault

secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

OK, lets look at it this way. If you take a gun, stick the barrel in your mouth and pull the trigger committing suicide. you have in fact committed murder am I right or wrong? So if you have just blown your brains all over the walls, how if you are dead can you ask for forgiveness for your sins? So as I see it, if you commit suicide there is really no way for you to repent for this sin and therefore you will IMHO be going to Hell with no stops.

However, when u are Baptised you are forgiven for all sins, before you commit them because god apparently see's what actions we will take.

450donn · Jan 20, 2009, 09:04 PM

Depending on your flavor of church, baptism is an affirmation of your belief or forgiveness of sin. Either way it does not absolve you of sins not yet committed. That must come when as soon as you understand that you sinned you go to your knees and ask God for forgiveness. That is the reason I said before and will say iot again a person that commits suicide cannot ask for forgiveness for the sin of murder because he is already dead.

secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Depending on your flavor of church, baptism is an affirmation of your belief or forgiveness of sin. Either way it does not absolve you of sins not yet committed. That must come when as soon as you understand that you sinned you go to your knees and ask God for forgiveness. That is the reason i said before and will say iot again a person that commits suicide cannot ask for forgiveness for the sin of murder because he is already dead.

So why is it that the bible says oh god is so merciful ra ra. However, you seem to believe that he wouldn't have mercy on a person so depressed and low in life that he os willing to take his own life

Akoue · Jan 20, 2009, 09:43 PM

This is really just an instance of the problem of evil. Why does an all-powerful and beneficent God allow suffering? I confess I can see no answer to that question without appealing to original sin. I don't know whether you accept or reject this doctrine, but if you accept it, the answer is: Because we have broken the creation by sinning and introducing evil into it, which evil spreads like a disease and erodes the fabric of reality itself. I'd be happy to expand on this if you like, but if you find the doctrine of original sin otiose it would be pointless to do so.

Wondergirl · Jan 20, 2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Suicide was his choice. I am sorry for that loss, but it was still his choice to make.

Choice? He made a choice? A person suffering from bipolar illness and schizophrenia made a rational and cool-headed decision to end his life? Have you ever talked with someone who is bipolar or schizophrenic? Do you have any idea of the hell someone with those diseases lives in every day. Sure, medication helps, but meds run their course and have to be adjusted or changed--and the mentally ill person, who by then is already descending into that hell again, has to somehow figure out that an adjustment or change is needed. (Pssst, he's well past that point.)

People who are bipolar or schizophrenic live in hell here on earth, a temporal hell. The world is groaning under the condition of sin. The evils that happen to us in this life are not part of God's plan. Mental illness is one of those evils. Why would a merciful and loving God send someone like that to a permanent hell?

arcura · Jan 20, 2009, 10:27 PM

secret 123,
I'm a believer that God does not give people diseases or mental disorders. They are consequences of this world of sin and many problems.
I have 2 different friends who committed suicide. Both of them in later life had mental problems. I grieve for them and I do not judge them.
That is the job of God alone as far as I and the bible are concerned.
I do think that loving, gentle, merciful Jesus takes situations such as these and others into consideration during judgement.
So I do pray for mercy for their souls.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

secret_123 · Jan 20, 2009, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

secret 123,
I'm a believer that God does not give people diseases or mental disorders. They are consequences of this world of sin and many problems.
I have 2 different friends who committed suicide. Both of them in later life had mental problems. I grieve for them and I do not judge them.
That is the job of God alone as far as I and the bible are concerned.
I do think that loving, gentle, merciful Jesus takes situations such as these and others into consideration during judgement.
So I do pray for mercy for their souls.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

He was 18. And I hope that if there is a god and a course of judgment that he will take into account the pain and hell he has gone through, and see's that any wrong doing he has done, his life and illnnessess were punishment enough

arcura · Jan 20, 2009, 11:07 PM

Secret 123,
That is what some folks call "hell on earth"
Peace and kindness,
Fred

plonak · Jan 20, 2009, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Depending on your flavor of church, baptism is an affirmation of your belief or forgiveness of sin. Either way it does not absolve you of sins not yet committed. That must come when as soon as you understand that you sinned you go to your knees and ask God for forgiveness. That is the reason i said before and will say iot again a person that commits suicide cannot ask for forgiveness for the sin of murder because he is already dead.

I think you are way off. So we all sin.. we all lie or cuss or lust right? We're human, we do it everyday even sometimes w/o knowing it..

so say you're on your way to work and you flip off the car in front of you for cutting you off and then you get in a fatal accident.. you think you will go to hell? Because you weren't able to repent to God for your sin of anger? You're saying the same thing about committing suicide. Sin is sin.. I believe God doesn't see it differently

I believe that God takes every situation into his judgement. He looks at the persons heart and decides from there.

Please don't spread false information to people who are curious about Christianity