[Jonegy]

The first job of the "holyman" (shaman, con-man = same thing) is to put into the schmucks head that you don't just die - but your "spirit" lives on.

Then that this living on is ruled over by a god who is all benificent - as long as you worship him and keep his priests, preachers, bishops, archbishops, rabbis, gurus,. (please add more at your pleasure) in a comfortable living.

Next, the now convinced dullard is told the if he doesn't worship this god and pay his "tithes" ( I love that word - got it off a certain site ) - his "spirit" will go to "hell" and suffer burning and all manner of ills so he must now go and tell his friends of the danger they are in and the shaman will pray for them and save them.

As discussed in another thread 103% can do a lot of convincing.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Any replies to this post containing biblical or other such quotes as the proof that the above is false will - naturally - be ignored.

may your god go with you

[31pumpkin]

Jonegy - A Christian doesn't have to pay tithes. It is an old testament rule. That doesn't stop members of a Church from tithing just as some churchgoers give an "offering" or "pledge" as an act of faith and worship. Giving cheerfully.


I think there's first HELL after death for the condemned, then (as in Revelation)
Then DEATH & HADES... Hades: meaning HELL - gave up their dead & death & "hell" were thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE. So it looks like 2 different hells for the condemned. :mad:

[Starman]

Christianity, not a denomination or a sect, but Christianity itself, requires you to question what you are taught. When Paul taught the Bareans they were commended for searching the scriptures to see if the things Paul taught were true. The only "mind control" in true, biblical, Christianity, is the sincere seeking to have the "mind of Christ" in all matters. This, in itself, shows the need to be open to the teaching of the Word of God regardless of what one hears from teachers and preachers whoever they be. Skeptical analysis is exactly what the Bareans were commended for.

Many so-called "christian" groups do attempt control the beliefs of their adherents to the degree that adherents are not "allowed" to deviate from the groups teachings no matter what. Frank Sandford's "Holy Ghost and Us bible school" and "Shiloh" in Durham, Maine from the late 1800's to early 1900's is an outstanding example of this type of group (see "Fair, Clear, and Terrible" by Shirley Nelson.) Arguably the most prevalent group extant today to practice this type of "mind control" is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses), but there are many such groups ("The House of Yahweh" in Abilene, Tx. for example) that are equally and even more controlling.

This is not how the Church of God ought to be, nor is it what the bible teaches. This type of controlling abuse occurs not only in psuedo-biblical cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses and the House of Yahweh, but also in some more doctrinally sound churches as well. A good book on this subject is "Churches that Abuse" by Ronald M. Enroth (and it's sequel "Recovering from Churches that Abuse").

Now, you have stated also that we are told what to believe from the bible, and you are correct, we are. On the major tenets of Christianity the bible is very clear and we are taught, as Christians, to be of the same mind concerning these, and not to be mislead by those who teach contrary to the sound doctrine of the Word of God. I fail to see, however, that this is mind control. Christians, like myself, believe that God has given us His word through the bible. It is not mind control that we search it for truth and even test it to see whether it is true. Christianity is not meant to be a religion of blind faith. Indeed, we are called to come to Christ with our eyes wide open! We are called to study the scriptures and question our beliefs as well as the beliefs of others. Christianity does not tell us to believe blindly, but to know what we believe and why.

Phil Debenham

"No matter what" is the operative expression here and needs clarification.
I understand it to mean no matter what I want to do when I want to do it they still say I can't. Which brings us back to the question of what it is you are wanting to do and why.
If it involves adultery, fornication, theft, blasphemy, unjustified physical violence, rape, child abuse, wife beating, abuse of human rights, then they will say you can't no matter what. Or if you want to teach your own version of the Bible while claiming to represent Jehovah's Witnesses, that too is not acceptable no matter what you say in order to convince them that they should accept it-such as that they are trying to control your mind by not approving that you do these things.


All meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses are Bible oriented and all things taught are supported with scripture. In fact, the Bereans you mention are taken as a model of exemplary conduct in reference to any claim or idea put forth as truth. Only someone unfamiliar with this organization would claim they don't study the Bible.

BTW
I find your name-calling condemnation and general attitude of superiority over others who have also voluntarily accepted the Ransom Sacrifice of Jesus for their sins offensive. There's much more to being a Christian than mere doctrinal accuracy.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

"One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism" not, "Any Lord you want, any faith you like, and any baptism that suits you"

That is Christianity. Anything other is something other.




M:)RGANITE

Does that include one hell also?:rolleyes:

[Morganite]

A Christian doesn't have to pay tithes. It is an old testament rule. That doesn't stop members of a Church from tithing just as some churchgoers give an "offering" or "pledge" as an act of faith and worship. Giving cheerfully.

Not everything in the OT was 'fulfilled' by Jesus. Only the Coda Mosaica. Tithing was not part of that, having been divinely insituted much earlier.



M:)

[Jonegy]

Hi Morganite --

I think that if you check - the quote you use above actually came from Pumpkin.;)

[31pumpkin]

Frank4yahweh -

What is Yahweh, other than it means God? Why does Yahweh depict a "Three-headed God" in a picture? Is that your version of a Trinity?

[STONY]

Bobbye,
Hell Is A Certainty But Death Before Hell I Can Question. Just Ask Any Heroin Addict If There Is A Hell On Earth. I Think You Will Find The Answer Is Yes. But, Then In Our Limited Mind That Is The Closest Thing We Can Relate To... I Have No Doubt That Hell
Is Far More Severe Than Anything We Can Imagine. Just My Observations... stony