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arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 08:58 PM

Tj3,
Wrong again, I do not interpret the bible for myself, but OBVIOUSLY you do!!
When it comes to my belief in The Church, I believe it and trust it far more than I do you because Jesus established it and the Holy Spirit has been guiding it for 2000 years.
In the past I have told you many times why I do not trust you.

Tj3 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
Wrong again, I do not interpret the bible for myself, but OBVIOUSLY you do!!!
When it comes to my belief in The Church, I believe it and trust it far more than I do you because Jesus established it and the Holy Spirit has been guiding it for 2000 years.

Why would Jesus come to earth in the flesh in the 1st century to establish a denomination in the 4th?

arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 09:25 PM

Tj3.
Jesus did not establish a denomination. He established The Church which today IS the Catholic Church. It was not a denomination it was ans is the Mother Church. Everyone knows that the denominations slit from the other Church after the reformation.
Your silly argument about a denomination is moot, without validity, or value and is therefore useless.

Tj3 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3.
Jesus did not establish a denomination.

That is what I keep telling you. He established the body of Christ, not a denomination.

BUt then you go and tell me that he established your denomination.

He established The Church which today IS the Catholic Church.

You did not answer my question about why Jesus would wait until the 4th century to establish his denomination.

ScottRC · Aug 24, 2008, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

That is what I keep telling you. He established the body of Christ, not a denomination.

Aren't all denominations part of that body of Christ?

Tj3 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by ScottRC

Aren't all denominations part of that body of Christ?

No denominations are. Only individuals.

1 Cor 12:27-28
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
NKJV

These individuals may be in a variety of denominations, but no denominations are members of the body of Christ.

ScottRC · Aug 24, 2008, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

No denominations are. Only individuals.

Okey dokey...

arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 09:41 PM

Tj3,
Please note that the person Jesus was talking to were the first members of The Church He called My Church.
As the bible tells us Jesus appointed Peter to be the first leader of The Church.
I believe that all true Christians are a part of the body of Christ.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
Please note that the person Jesus was talking to were the first members of The Church He called My Church.

The body of Christ, not any denomination, not even yours, but people who would be the first to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

As the bible tells us Jesus appointed Peter to be the first leader of The Church.

Maybe your Bible, but not the NT that was written in the 1st century.

arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 09:55 PM

Tj3,
Again that is your opinion.
Again I disagree.
Is that OK with you?
Fred

Tj3 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
Again that is your opinion.
Again I disagree.
Is that OK with you?
Fred

You can certainly believe what you wish Fred. I would prefer to discuss what scripture says with you, but if you prefer to believe what your denomination says, that is fine with me.

arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 10:03 PM

Tj3,
I believed first what the bible says that is why I became a Catholic.
I gave up being a Catholic basher many years ago.
You know that because I have told you that several time over the last several years.
Fred

Tj3 · Aug 24, 2008, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
I believed first what the bible says that is why I became a Catholic.

Do you believe it when scripture says we are saved by faith without works?

arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 10:10 PM

Tj3,
I believe what the bible says, "Faith without works is dead."
Fred

ScottRC · Aug 24, 2008, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Do you believe it when scripture says we are saved by faith without works?

OOOH can I play too!

I do!

I'm saved by grace through my faith in Jesus Christ... how about you?:D

arcura · Aug 24, 2008, 10:13 PM

ScottRC,
I believe the same.
Fred

Tj3 · Aug 25, 2008, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
I believe what the bible says, "Faith without works is dead."
Fred

But the works plays NO part in our salvation. The Bible says so.

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

Do you believe this part of the Bible?

sndbay · Aug 25, 2008, 09:14 AM

But let us not neglect to know all scripture written

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. KJV

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. KJV

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked. KJV

1 John 2:29 If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him.KJV

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. KJV

And Does Include Believing The Truth

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Hebrews 10: 16- 17 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the Saviour of the body

1 Sam 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

arcura · Aug 25, 2008, 07:42 PM

Tj3,
Eph 2 8-19 simply says that a person can not work their way to heaven on must have faith.
There are many verses in the gospels that speak of the works on must do in addition to faith.
So I do believe in the verse you mentions AND all the others which speak of faith AND works.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Aug 25, 2008, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
Eph 2 8-19 simply says that a person can not work their way to heaven on must have faith.
There are many verses in the gospels that speak of the works on must do in addition to faith.
So I do believe in the verse you mentions AND all the others which speak of faith AND works.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

So you do not believe what Ephesians says:

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

It says NOT of works. That means NO works. Salvation does not have anything to do with works. This is a mis-understanding caused by those who read the English out of context.

In Greek, the word faith is the same as faithfulness. In contrast to your perspective which tries to put one part of scripture at odds with another, if we look at the whole context of scripture, and especially in the context of how the original language reads, we can see that a man who is faithfulness will show that faithfulness in works. Works follow salvation. Nowhere in scripture does it even suggest that works are necessary for salvation or can in any way aid salvation.