[KBC]

I'm not going to give you a reddie because it would be rude, but I completely disagree with you about this. Not everyone has a "god shaped" hole in their life, I don't. My husband doesn't. In fact, none of the atheists I know do. I'll never understand why it is you and many other Christians are convinced one cannot be happy without god; that atheists are miserable, lacking something, have a void, etc. It just simply isn't true. I won't deny there are people in this world that "need" god to make themselves feel complete, but to make a statement that "all" people have a "god void" is arrogant and incorrect. I get it, without god, YOU would be miserable. Did you stop to think that perhaps with god I would be miserable?

I also agree with the giving of a red,

Try to picture this,

I had a recovering 'friend' come to the meetings stating personal issues that she wouldn't tell anyone, at least in detail.

Eventually, through enough time and closeness to the small group, she did confide in me.

A person born and raised in a functional Satanic cult( believe me, not many get away from this situation and live outside for long)Her raising was for procreation of sacrificial babies,amongst other duties.

Now was she 'miserable' or missing something in herself that 'My God' would cure? I would like to think so, and tried to compassionately express,to no avail, She made it clear,what her beliefs were, and that she is OK in her shoes, just not in mine. Now, do I have to accept her as just another one of gods creatures, or look at her with disdain over the upbringing and past she has.My atheist side says, LIVE AND LET LIVE, the religious side says SAVE HER FROM HERSELF.

Who is right?

Ken

[mountain_man]

You all KBC, ordinary guy, NK, jillianleab; all have the right to "stand on your own" that is and always will be your choice. I am not pushing anything on either of you, although I would love to see you believe and be saved, I cannot force you or can anyone. You are free to make your own choice and clearly have. There is no point to further agree a point where two sides are so firmly grounded. If a reddie is what you see fit to give go ahead I don't see it as rude but I will continue to agrue or debate my beliefs against whatever topic is posed so if we come back to this point so be it. Take care

[firmbeliever]

You all KBC, ordinary guy, NK, jillianleab; all have the right to "stand on your own" that is and always will be your choice. I am not pushing anything on either of you, although I would love to see you believe and be saved, I cannot force you or can anyone. You are free to make your own choice and clearly have. There is no point to further agree a point where two sides are so firmly grounded. If a reddie is what you see fit to give go ahead I don't see it as rude but I will continue to agrue or debate my beliefs against whatever topic is posed so if we come back to this point so be it. Take care

Are you talking about being saved by Jesus(alaihi salaam)?

[mountain_man]

Are you talking about being saved by Jesus(alaihi salaam)?

Yes

[firmbeliever]

Then according to your thinking I will need saving too,but then as I already accept Jesus(alaihi salaam) a little differently from you I do not believe in what you believe.
I believe in an Almighty who has none equal or like Him.No partners.Not born of anyone, no offspring...

Now see the road this could take.

I believe mine is the One true religion,but I cannot show concrete proof as expected by most people.

[inthebox]

The irony of what you say here is that most of the 'bible thumpers' have 'found' god because they hit rock bottom with addictions and abuse. Yet the non-believers have had no such issues.

Your statement about believers is just as wrong as if I classified all atheists as this monster:

Jeffrey Dahmer - Wikiquote







Grace and Peace

[KBC]

But in here we can at least have a social discussion on a very volatile issue.

Catholicism,Judaism,atheism,satanism,paganism,wicc an,baptist,. the list could go on and on.

IS THERE A HAPPY MEDIUM WE CAN ALL AGREE TO?

NO!

What makes one better or more right than the other? NOTHING,just a concept.

If I can live without belief in a higher power/god figure,YES, I will 'stand on my own' like mountain_man stated. Is it something others have to accept,YES.

Anyone else?

Ken

[jillianleab]

You all KBC, ordinary guy, NK, jillianleab; all have the right to "stand on your own" that is and always will be your choice. I am not pushing anything on either of you, although I would love to see you believe and be saved, I cannot force you or can anyone. You are free to make your own choice and clearly have. There is no point to further agree a point where two sides are so firmly grounded. If a reddie is what you see fit to give go ahead I don't see it as rude but I will continue to agrue or debate my beliefs against whatever topic is posed so if we come back to this point so be it. Take care

I'm not giving you a reddie because it is rude to do so when someone has expressed their opinion. I felt it necessary, however, to point out the flaw in the reasoning you used to come to your opinion. You said "all" when you should have said "some". I'm sure you would disagree with me if I said, "All people would be better off if they were atheist".

As far as pushing anything on any of us, you've done just that. Rather than respect the differences in our views and beliefs, you have consistently told us to "ask god to see him" and so on. Have I asked you to turn away from god, except in the sense that if you do it will help you gain empathy for our position? You continue to say how you would "love to see us believe and be saved", yet no one has said they hope you reject god. So perhaps in your mind you are not pushing your views, but reverse everything you've said, and pretend it came from me.

All people would be better off if they are atheist.
No one has a "god shaped" hole.
Open your eyes, and you will see there is no god.
I would love to see you reject god and realize atheism is the true way.

If I said those things to you, would you not feel I was pushing my beliefs on you? I think you would. Here's the difference between you and me: I don't care what you believe. I really don't. You don't hurt me in any way, shape or form by believing in god. In fact, if your faith is what gives you moral guidance and keeps you from killing your neighbor, well, I'm GLAD you believe in god. But you, on the other hand, appear to have a problem with the fact that I don't believe. Despite the fact that I have morals and values, I don't commit crimes, I'm a good person, I contribute to society and my community, I have a family, etc, that's not enough for you. You insist I must believe to be "good" in your eyes. How about basing your opinion of someone based off their actions instead of their beliefs? How about respecting the differences people have, and keep your religion to yourself when you encounter someone who is satisfied with their spiritual self?

You say you will continue to argue or debate your beliefs, and I respect that, I really do, but this thread is not about YOUR beliefs. This is not the place to argue why Christianity is the "way" the "truth" or whatever. This thread was started to find out WHY atheists believe what they do and what they if fact, believe. It's here to clear up misconceptions, no to present an argument as to why atheism is better that Christianity. There's nothing personal about it, but you seem to have taken it as such.

[KBC]

I'm not giving you a reddie because it is rude to do so when someone has expressed their opinion. I felt it necessary, however, to point out the flaw in the reasoning you used to come to your opinion. You said "all" when you should have said "some". I'm sure you would disagree with me if I said, "All people would be better off if they were atheist".

As far as pushing anything on any of us, you've done just that. Rather than respect the differences in our views and beliefs, you have consistently told us to "ask god to see him" and so on. Have I asked you to turn away from god, except in the sense that if you do it will help you gain empathy for our position? You continue to say how you would "love to see us believe and be saved", yet no one has said they hope you reject god. So perhaps in your mind you are not pushing your views, but reverse everything you've said, and pretend it came from me.

All people would be better off if they are atheist.
No one has a "god shaped" hole.
Open your eyes, and you will see there is no god.
I would love to see you reject god and realize atheism is the true way.

If I said those things to you, would you not feel I was pushing my beliefs on you? I think you would. Here's the difference between you and me: I don't care what you believe. I really don't. You don't hurt me in any way, shape or form by believing in god. In fact, if your faith is what gives you moral guidance and keeps you from killing your neighbor, well, I'm GLAD you believe in god. But you, on the other hand, appear to have a problem with the fact that I don't believe. Despite the fact that I have morals and values, I don't commit crimes, I'm a good person, I contribute to society and my community, I have a family, etc, that's not enough for you. You insist I must believe to be "good" in your eyes. How about basing your opinion of someone based off of their actions instead of their beliefs? How about respecting the differences people have, and keep your religion to yourself when you encounter someone who is satisfied with their spiritual self?

You say you will continue to argue or debate your beliefs, and I respect that, I really do, but this thread is not about YOUR beliefs. This is not the place to argue why Christianity is the "way" the "truth" or whatever. This thread was started to find out WHY atheists believe what they do and what they if fact, believe. It's here to clear up misconceptions, no to present an argument as to why atheism is better that Christianity. There's nothing personal about it, but you seem to have taken it as such.

Well, since I can't give another greenie to you, I will just state the obvious, WE really do see alike on this issue, and I for one, am glad you can write out the feelings I feel so clearly, thank you for your outlook and opinion.

Ken

[NeedKarma]

Your statement about believers is just as wrong as if I classified all atheists as this monster:
Jeffrey Dahmer - Wikiquote
Grace and Peace

Actually I was referring to this discussion board uniquely. And I wasn't painting all believers as such, you know me better than that, only the ones who constantly push scripture and can't understand why we don't want to be saved.

[mountain_man]

Then according to your thinking I will need saving too,but then as I already accept Jesus(alaihi salaam) a little differently from you I do not believe in what you believe.
I believe in an Almighty who has none equal or like Him.No partners.Not born of anyone, no offspring......

Now see the road this could take.

I believe mine is the One true religion,but I cannot show concrete proof as expected by most people.

I believe in the Bible and the road to salvation represented in that. We will all be ultimately be judged by the one true God, I can only do what I believe to be right and have faith that it is such.

[mountain_man]

I'm not giving you a reddie because it is rude to do so when someone has expressed their opinion. I felt it necessary, however, to point out the flaw in the reasoning you used to come to your opinion. You said "all" when you should have said "some". I'm sure you would disagree with me if I said, "All people would be better off if they were atheist".

As far as pushing anything on any of us, you've done just that. Rather than respect the differences in our views and beliefs, you have consistently told us to "ask god to see him" and so on. Have I asked you to turn away from god, except in the sense that if you do it will help you gain empathy for our position? You continue to say how you would "love to see us believe and be saved", yet no one has said they hope you reject god. So perhaps in your mind you are not pushing your views, but reverse everything you've said, and pretend it came from me.

All people would be better off if they are atheist.
No one has a "god shaped" hole.
Open your eyes, and you will see there is no god.
I would love to see you reject god and realize atheism is the true way.

If I said those things to you, would you not feel I was pushing my beliefs on you? I think you would. Here's the difference between you and me: I don't care what you believe. I really don't. You don't hurt me in any way, shape or form by believing in god. In fact, if your faith is what gives you moral guidance and keeps you from killing your neighbor, well, I'm GLAD you believe in god. But you, on the other hand, appear to have a problem with the fact that I don't believe. Despite the fact that I have morals and values, I don't commit crimes, I'm a good person, I contribute to society and my community, I have a family, etc, that's not enough for you. You insist I must believe to be "good" in your eyes. How about basing your opinion of someone based off of their actions instead of their beliefs? How about respecting the differences people have, and keep your religion to yourself when you encounter someone who is satisfied with their spiritual self?

You say you will continue to argue or debate your beliefs, and I respect that, I really do, but this thread is not about YOUR beliefs. This is not the place to argue why Christianity is the "way" the "truth" or whatever. This thread was started to find out WHY atheists believe what they do and what they if fact, believe. It's here to clear up misconceptions, no to present an argument as to why atheism is better that Christianity. There's nothing personal about it, but you seem to have taken it as such.

You are right, although I could respond to this I will not because it has nothing to do with the original post.

[firmbeliever]

I believe in the Bible and the road to salvation represented in that. We will all be ultimately be judged by the one true God, I can only do what I believe to be right and have faith that it is such.

I was just saying what I said because when you want to save me or others from whatever fate is in store for us after death, it is not really in our hands.

We cannot change hearts,soften them or humble them, but the Almighty does when it is their time to accept.

As far as this thread goes, I asked for informations sake about atheists,because as a believer it is hard for me to think of not believing ever as it does not make sense for me not to believe.
Since I started this thread I have come to an understanding of the why's people may not believe and I accept that (not that I accept their beliefs),but just their reasoning.

As I cannot say who is and who isn't going to be saved from Hell (except those mentioned in the Book I follow), I am not going to say all those on this thread will go to Hell or Heaven. As far as I believe, someone who does sin all his life,may change his beliefs in an instant and that is all that takes for a change of heart from disbelief to belief.The same goes for those who believe, I cannot guarantee my place in Heaven just because I believe, it is by the Mercy of the Almighty if I am in Heaven in the afterlife.

All I know is that I am firm in my belief and that I believe I am on the truth,whether others accept that or not I really do not care.The only One I humble,submit myself to is the Almighty and His judgement alone is all that counts in the end.

None of you on this thread can prove to me that my belief is false because none of you can show me proof,nor can I show you proof of the truth of my beliefs except it takes a lot of faith to believe in an unseen Almighty God and as I had said somewhere I see sense in my belief.

I pray that those I do care about (that would include a lot of people on this thread and forum.. :)),see the light before their life ends,but then I cannot guarantee anything to any of you. All I know for certain is that the temporariness of this worldly life is something all of us will agree on.For each it lasts only as long as one is alive,then it ends for that person.

What lies beyond I believe my belief shows me the truth of the afterlife and what happens in the afterlife happens whether one believes or not.Heaven or Hell, its existence will be confirmed to each of us at the moment of our death.

For those of you who are trying to save those who do not have the same faith as you, please help those who seek help first, the ones that turn to you in need of guidance.

The ones that have not asked yet, are not ready to seek that path, no matter how much we wish for things, it happens only at the time it is supposed to happen,not before or after that moment.

The money we earn,the families we share,the friends, homes,degrees,knowledge... all these things matters,but without peace within ourselves there is little we can enjoy..
I wish all of you peace... complete Peace.
I believe that is what all desires for from the depths of their being.

[jillianleab]

For those of you who are trying to save those who do not have the same faith as you, please help those who seek help first, the ones that turn to you in need of guidance.

This needs repeating.

Wonderful post, firmbeliever.

[firmbeliever]

Thank you Jill,
That post is from the depths of my soul.

[ordinaryguy]

We will all be...

There you go again. You'd get a lot better reception for your ideas if you could just avoid that word "all" when referring to people. Stick with "I" or "some" and you'll be amazed at how much more receptive people will be. Try it. The next time you're tempted to write "we will all" or "we are all" or "we all have" such and such, just say "I" instead. What you believe goes for you, and those who agree with you. Nobody else.

[startover22]

Thank you Jill,
That post is from the depths of my soul.

I feel like every post of yours is from the depths of your soul... That is why I respect you so much Firmy! You are good!;)

[Capuchin]

There you go again. You'd get a lot better reception for your ideas if you could just avoid that word "all" when referring to people. Stick with "I" or "some" and you'll be amazed at how much more receptive people will be. Try it. The next time you're tempted to write "we will all" or "we are all" or "we all have" such and such, just say "I" instead. What you believe goes for you, and those who agree with you. Nobody else.

I think I disagree with you here. It annoys me when people think they have a religion that only applies to them. If there is one true religion, then it will apply to all of us, and if there is no true religion, then the fact that we are nothing more than a fortuitous arrangement of salty water applies to all of us.

[Synnen]

In that case, Cappy...

We're all going to be reincarnated. If the good things you did in your life outweigh the bad, then you'll come back as something or someone of a higher station than you are now. If your evil actions outweigh your good, you will come back as the thing you looked down on the most, so that you can have a better understanding and compassion for that position. If you don't learn your lesson in one life, rest assured that you will in another. And once we all learn all of our lessons, the peace and joy that we all will have, the understanding and knowledge, will allow us to stay by the side of the Goddess forever. The only hell that you will be condemned to, ever, is one of your own making... the hell of having to live as that which you despise or condemn the most.

/grin

I'm sorry... I just HAD to.

[geniegee2003]

You can't say that "you'll come back as something or someone of a higher station than you are now" you can't tell or promise someone that because you don't know that is what will definitely happen, it's kind of giving people false hope.