[revans211]

I Was Contacted Today In Regards To A Payday Loan I Received In Dc In Or About April Of 2005. The Rep On The Phone Advise Me That A Warrant Would Be Issued For My Arrest For Bad Check Writing. The Rep Also Said The Loan Was Initially For $300.00 I Now Owe $1154.00. I Am Concerned Because I Have Not Received Any Documentation In Writing The Rep Gave Me Until Monday To Respond. I Advised The Rep That I Needed Proof That I Owe The Debt Before I Would Accept Any Liablity. Please Advise Me On What To Do. I Don't Want To Go To Jail And Find It Hard To Believe That This Is The Process.


Thanks In Advance,
Rhonda E

[Fr_Chuck]

OK, first did you write them a bad check, one that bounced ?
How much was that check for. Was it for the 300
I know many of the "payday" loan places require you to write them the check for payment before they give you the money, so if you don't pay, they cash the check and if it bouces, they can threaten you with the police

If you did not write them a bad check, then basically they are just lying. Most collection people just lie, they threaten to have you arrested, threaten to take your car, take your TV and more.

So tell us about the loan, was there a bad check written inregards to the loan?

[excon]

Hello R:

They can't put you in jail.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

Excon, in a PM they explained they wrote them a 300 dollar check to this payday place. This is common with payday loan places.
So this check bounced and is not a bad check.

So they can't put them in jail for the debt but they can press charges for the bad check

[JudyKayTee]

Excon, in a PM they explained they wrote them a 300 dollar check to this payday place. This is commom with payday loan palces.
So this check bounced and is not a bad check.

So they can't put them in jail for the debt but they can press charges for the bad check

And the final dollar amount is, unfortunately, not out of the ordinary for these payday loan places. NYS is trying to regulate them but it's a big business which, so far, is lobbying against regulatory laws. And, yes, people "here" are getting arrested on the bad check charge -

[excon]

Hello again, Padre and Judy:

I agree that the position these crooks take is that the bounced check is CRIMINAL. The doughnut eating cops, who would rather arrest a guy in debt than a real criminal, go along with this hooey.

However, it's my view, that the bounced check is in actuality, and legally, nothing more than a promissory note.

Certainly these people can't afford an attorney who will fight it based upon those grounds. But, if they did, I believe they'd win.

excon

[s_cianci]

Hello R:

They can't put you in jail.

excon

Not so fast here, excon. If the OP wrote a bad check, that is a criminal offense and in fact could theoretically result in imprisonment. That's not to say that it would but it is a possibility. Most payday loans entail the borrower writing a post-dated check to the lender, for the amount of the loan plus fees, etc. The borrower then receives the money. Then, by the time the date of the check rolls around, the borrower has to have deposited an amount sufficient to cover the check that was written to the lender. So, if the lender attempts to cash the check and it bounces, the borrower is guilty of writing a bad check and has committed a crimina offense. It's true that the borrower can't be imprisoned merely for failure to repay the loan, it's the fact that it involves a bad check that's the clincher.

[excon]

Hello again, C:

From Wikipedia

In criminal law, intent, or mens rea -- the Latin term for "guilty mind" -- is usually one of the necessary elements of a crime. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means that "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind is also guilty". Thus, in jurisdictions with due process, there must be an actus reus accompanied by some level of mens rea to constitute the crime with which the defendant is charged.

----------------

I say again, if the borrower intended to pay, then this is a civil matter irrespective of the bounced check. Although, it's better said this way - If the prosecutor cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the borrower INTENDED to cheat, he MUST be acquitted.

That's my position, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

And in the US, the bad check issue will also depend on the area you live.
Not that is it not illegal everywhere, but I have lived in places where unless the check was over 500, the local DA would not do much with it, and lived in other places where I saw someone get probation for a 30 dollar check

[s_cianci]

If the prosecutor cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the borrower INTENDED to cheat, he MUST be acquitted.

Certainly this is true - no question here. And as Fr. Chuck points out, it's not likely that any DA would bother with one $300 bad check. Now if the OP has a pattern of writing numerous bad checks, that's something else.

[excon]

Now if the OP has a pattern of writing numerous bad checks, that's something else.

Hello again, Padre and c:

Exactamente.

In my view, it's not the amount of the bounced check that matters. It's the intent of the check writer.

Now, I'm not much of an investigator - I admit to hanging out at the doughnut shoppe. But, if I was I could distinguish between the crooks who were scamming and the people who were in debt. I really could do that. You'd think a cop could too...

excon

[topladyj]

I work as a check casher and I have had to go to court to go against someone for a 150 dollar check before so I don't think the amount matters, but it might differ in different states. Here they take you to court and set you up with resitiution payments to the da till the check is paid in full. I don't know how they would get that large of an amount from 300 unless they are charging you some major interest. If you set up a payment plan to the da and fail to make your payments however that's another story. Who called you by the way?

[JudyKayTee]

I work as a check casher and I have had to go to court to go against someone for a 150 dollar check before so I don't think the amount matters, but it might differ in different states. Here they take you to court and set you up with resitiution payments to the da till the check is paid in full. I don't know how they would get that large of an amount from 300 unless they are charging you some major interest. If you set up a payment plan to the da and fail to make your payments however thats another story. Who called you by the way?

Is a check cashing business the same as a payday loan business?

Here is a brief explananation of how the interest/fees climb: "You need to borrow $100 for two weeks. You write a personal check for $115, with $15 the fee to borrow the money. The check casher or payday lender agrees to hold your check until your next payday. When that day comes around, either the lender deposits the check and you redeem it by paying the $115 in cash, or you roll-over the loan and are charged $15 more to extend the financing for 14 more days. If you agree to electronic payments instead of a check, here’s what would happen on your next payday: the company would debit the full amount of the loan from your checking account electronically, or extend the loan for an additional $15. The cost of the initial $100 loan is a $15 finance charge and an annual percentage rate of 391 percent. If you roll-over the loan three times, the finance charge would climb to $60 to borrow the $100."

As I said - NYS is attempting to regular the payday loan places; I don't know how check cashing places work. Can you explain?

[topladyj]

Is a check cashing business the same as a payday loan business?

Here is a brief explananation of how the interest/fees climb: "You need to borrow $100 for two weeks. You write a personal check for $115, with $15 the fee to borrow the money. The check casher or payday lender agrees to hold your check until your next payday. When that day comes around, either the lender deposits the check and you redeem it by paying the $115 in cash, or you roll-over the loan and are charged $15 more to extend the financing for 14 more days. If you agree to electronic payments instead of a check, here’s what would happen on your next payday: the company would debit the full amount of the loan from your checking account electronically, or extend the loan for an additional $15. The cost of the initial $100 loan is a $15 finance charge and an annual percentage rate of 391 percent. If you roll-over the loan three times, the finance charge would climb to $60 to borrow the $100."

As I said - NYS is attempting to regular the payday loan places; I don't know how check cashing places work. Can you explain?

Well I know how the fees work but I didn't think they could keep charging you for years and years I thought they would go cash your check in. I have been offered several jobs for payday loan places around here they say when you get tired of your job come over here. But I don't think I want to deal with all the paper work. We cash checks for fees. When a returned check comes back, its left as unpaid so we turn it into the da from there the customer can set up payment plans and if not paid they have been known to get locked up especially on forged checks or checks they wrote off there own acct. So I'm not sure really how these differ in the courts though.

[progunr]

Most, and I emphasize MOST States will not prosecute on a post dated check, which is exactly what a payday loan is.

When they accept your check, they have full knowledge that the check is "bad" when they take it, in hopes that it will be "good" on the date they have agreed to hold it until.

Since they knew it was no good that day, they have not taken a bad check, they have issued a loan.

Every State I'm sure has different laws, but, in the 5 that I have done business in, this was the policy. No hold, or post dated checks will be accepted for prosecution.

These places are somewhat unscrupulous in their practices and some get you to "date" the check with the date it is to be deposited or paid. If they do, be sure to write on the memo line written on (insert the date written) or just put "hold check". If they refuse to accept your check with this type of disclaimer on it, I would find another place to do business.

I believe the only true action here is some type of civil suit.