[talaniman]

Now what can (and-or should) one really do if one does not believe in (and or questions) the existence of God?

You simply look into your own heart, and do as you must to be who you are, or want to be. Whether you believe or not, you still have the gift of choice to use as you may. There is no spiritual contradiction, or conflict. Only one imposed on one human to another.

[Credendovidis]

.... You do not believe in the Almighty but you wonder what you should do because you are not a believer? Or questions His existence? ....

With all respect : let me tell you what my thoughts on that are : I got tired of all those "friendly" Christians telling me that anyone who doesn't believe in the Christian faith is wrong. That's a clear lack of respect for my personal views, and a show of their hypocrite self-righteousness.
Specially as NOBODY ever has provided even the slightest iota of objective supporting evidence for the existence of their God.
.
I do not deny anyone the right to believe. And I do not tell any Christian that what he/she believes is wrong. All I do is telling them that what they BELIEVE is BELIEF and NOT FACTUAL (at least never ever has that objectively been proved to be factual)
;)

[Credendovidis]

... I'm having trouble understanding what sort of answer you want ; it sounds more like you are trolling...

It's more a mirror that I hold up to (good-willing but never-the-less) respect-less and self-righteous Christians who insist at every opportunity that I have to accept their belief.
But when you ask them HOW you can convert yourself to ideas that are totally foreign to yourself, their reaction turns into accusing and insulting you, like you do with suggesting that I am "trolling".
.
With all respect : why don't you answer my question : HOW and WHY would anyone convert to the Christianity, if every braincells in him/her tells that religion makes no sense?
:rolleyes:

[Credendovidis]

You simply look into your own heart, and do as you must to be who you are, or want to be. Whether you believe or not, you still have the gift of choice to use as you may. There is no spiritual contradiction, or conflict. Only one imposed on one human to another.

I did. Many times. But I disagree that I have a choice. For me there are no supernatural entities, and so far nobody ever has been able to provide me with a single iota of objective support to the opposite of that view.
Still Christians tell me that I am wrong. And they tell me that what they BELIEVE is the ONE-AND-ONLY-TRUTH.
With all respect : if they want that BELIEVE, fine with me. But why should I accept that as my reality? And why should I be wrong not accepting what they BELIEVE?
:rolleyes:

[talaniman]

But I disagree that I have a choice.

Your exercising that choice now by not believing in what others say, and that's up to you. By the way I'm not a Christian, and am not telling you what, or why you should believe. If you require evidence, as opposed to blind faith, cool, again YOUR choice. Don't be mad at christians for trying to express themselves, and the way many of them go about it, they are as human as any of us, and feel strongly in the way they believe.

[firmbeliever]

With all respect : let me tell you what my thoughts on that are : I got tired of all those "friendly" Christians telling me that anyone who doesn't believe in the Christian faith is wrong. That's a clear lack of respect for my personal views, and a show of their hypocrite self-righteousness.
Specially as NOBODY ever has provided even the slightest iota of objective supporting evidence for the existence of their God.
.
I do not deny anyone the right to believe. And I do not tell any Christian that what he/she believes is wrong. All I do is telling them that what they BELIEVE is BELIEF and NOT FACTUAL (at least never ever has that objectively been proved to be factual)
;)

Sometimes with your questions I wonder if you actually want someone to prove it so you could believe? :)

If what we believers believe is only belief then so is yours.It is your belief that there is no Almighty.
Are you not doing the same thing as "those"who think they are right by trying to prove believers wrong?

[jillianleab]

It's more a mirror that I hold up to (good-willing but never-the-less) respect-less and self-righteous Christians who insist at every opportunity that I have to accept their belief.

Yup, that's annoying, but as I said, trying to do that sort of thing here, on a board where psychologically people are of strong opinion (because they participate in such a public forum to express their views) is going to make little difference. I'm not saying you shouldn't have posted your question, I'm just saying, IMO, it's a waste of time if you are hoping to reach people here.

But when you ask them HOW you can convert yourself to ideas that are totally foreign to yourself, their reaction turns into accusing and insulting you, like you do with suggesting that I am "trolling".

I didn't say you were trolling, I said it seems like you might be trolling. Your question is very confrontational, very challenging of the other side, and then you re-post with, might I say, quite a bit of arrogance because you didn't get the answer you wanted. Unless you have led a very shelterd life it should come as no surprise to you that there are people in this world who will insist to the very end that THEY are right, and YOU are wrong. Those are people with little to no respect for other's opinions or beliefs; why engage them? There's a handy feature on this site - the "ignore" button; I've used it frequently because there are people here that simply aren't worth my time and energy. But regardless of all of that, why ask how you can convert? Why not explain you are content with your belief system and leave it at that? Why not flip the table on them and ask how can you convert them to YOUR belief system? And when they say, "There's no way," you simply say, "I rest my case."

And as an aside, it's been MY experience that when I tell someone their ideas are foreign to me, they react by telling me I must have "faith" to accept. So either you deal with angrier people than me, or our approaches are different.

With all respect : why don't you answer my question : HOW and WHY would anyone convert to the Christianity, if every braincells in him/her tells that religion makes no sense?
:rolleyes:

I don't care if you convert to Christianity or not, I'm not a Christian. I don't see why anyone would convert if they didn't believe; it would be pointless. I also don't see why someone who doesn't believe is seemingly overwhelmed with the idea of convincing themselves to believe, or finding a way that it can be articulated that you can overcome your lack of belief. Why are you so concerned with what these people think about you? Maybe this is not your intent, but it screams of insecurity on your end.

Here's what it comes down to - faith. You either have it, or you don't. You can lose it (apparently), you can find it (apparently), but you either have it or you don't. You either allow yourself to believe in the supernatural, or your brain tells you, "Nope, I don't think so!" It's not about convincing yourself to believe, or pretending, it's about faith. Every theist I've ever encountered will eventually relent and say that to believe, you must have faith. No faith - no god. It's really as simple as that.

[inthebox]

Donna Mae posted in topic "Is there a God?" :

"I believe it as soon as I see it. The problem with this statement is that when you see it (the Judgement), it will be to late to believe then".

Besides that that only MAY BE TRUE (as it is subject to the existence of that deity which many of you call "God", and if there is any judgement at all), there is another problem with this point of view.

YOU may believe in the existence of God, and in the powers and features attributed to God, but if you don't believe in the existence of (your and any other) God : what can one do?

Born into a Christian family I rejected the belief in (any) God(s) at the early age of 12 years.
I did not change any other habits and viewpoints. I have not murdered anyone, pay my dues where demanded from me, do a lot of unpaid volunteer activities, am a member of an international disaster team, still help old women to the other side of the street (if they want to go there), and am open to other views (i.e. also to Christianity). But I do not believe in the existence of God.

Donna may be correct. Or she may not be correct. It is the wellknown ´Wager of Pascal`.
Should I fake it than? Would an omniscient God not know I would fake it?

Most of you are all 99,999.999.999.999.999% (1) convinced that there is that deity called God with all these characteristic descibed to it, while I am 99,999.999.999.999.999% (1) convinced that the deity called God does not exist, and that there is no ´Satan`, that there are no ´Heaven and Hell`, that there is no ´Final Judgement`, etc.

Besides that everyone should be allowed to believe whatever ´feels good`, you can not force a belief upon yourself or another. I do not see any reason neither to even try to change my position. But I respect whatever you believe in.

All I do not respect are the conclusions some of you draw from your religious beliefs. Like a 6000 years old earth, or the creation myth converted into anti evolution attack (a rather intolerant approach towards those of other views, while creationists demand full tolerance towards their own views (but most of the time fail to provide themselves towards those of other views). Just as you are allowed in your belief(s), I am allowed in what I feel right !
.
Now what can (and-or should) one really do if one does not believe in (and or questions) the existence of God?
.
(1) 99,999.999.999.999.999% : sassyT claims that there is nothing you can know 100%, so 99,999.999.999.999.999% than :)
.

As per what Jilleanleab just stated.

Ultimately it's belief / faith. Not that Christians don't think or blindly accept, though I'm sure some do, but it is a free choice.


Credendovidis:

Do you want to believe in God?

[Credendovidis]

Do you want to believe in God?

It's not IF I want to believe. That is up to me to decide.
.
As I stated it are Christians who insist at every opportunity that I have to accept their belief.
That I must read their Bible to (learn to) believe in God. That I am wrong regarding my non-religious world views.
.
So I did that in the past. I read and know the Bible. But I still do not believe in the existence of God.
.
My point is : even if I would want to believe in God, I know that I can not believe in God (at least not at this moment). That it is impossible for me to do. Reading the Bible, participating in religious discussions, whatever else I did convinced me every time even more than before , that it is not I who is wrong.
.
In some way I just believe as strong in my non-religious views, as the most convinced Christian believes in her/his religious views.
.
Now I have never in my life tried to convince any Christian of my views.
Also I have never told any Christian that he/she is wrong.
All I ever mentioned is that Christians circular-argue by using what they believe as "evidence" for their belief to be factual.
.
And other Christians continue telling me that I have to change, even although I am very open and clear about my position, and am a convinced Atheist.
.

[inthebox]

Credendovidis,

Thanks for clearing that up.

You are right, it is your choice.

[Donna Mae]

With all respect : why don't you answer my question : HOW and WHY would anyone convert to the Christianity, if every braincells in him/her tells that religion makes no sense?
:rolleyes:

I have to say that I have been a believer for as long as I can remember so it is hard for me to really understand how anyone could not believe in God and Jesus. But I do realize that it is hard for some to accept God, I don't understand it myself, but I can see your side. I am sorry if I have been pushy with my beliefs, but telling others about God and Jesus is something I have to (and want to) do.

My suggestion would be prayer. If you really want to know if God exists, pray, I believe that somehow God will let you know your answer.

[talaniman]

You don't have to convert to anything. Especially if it makes no sense.

[BABRAM]

I think Talaniman has a good point. The fact that Cred is happy with himself, as an atheist, is of no consequence to me or anybody for that matter. Likewise for whatever Donna Mae's Christian beliefs are, than good for her as well. Personally I take value in the Torah and that's important to my understanding in this life, but I acknowledge that most people are not harmful to others in society and are rather productive helping humanity in general, maintaining healthy relationships with friends and family. For example: I think of the Judaism board as a place that people should visit that desire to know more about the Jewish faith (and/or history) and come willingly to ask questions. Sure there are a few that feel the need to debate and if they come respectfully they are also welcomed. But I do think it's often offensive, when in a zealous manner, one forces him or herself upon another, or goes board trolling just for the sake of religious or anti-religious arguments. Generally speaking, I know that if either atheist or Christian saw someone hurt in a horrific car crash that neither would hesitate to comfort the person the best they could and get help.

[talaniman]

No one will respect your choices, if you don't respect theirs. That's only human nature. That's also the problem, a lack of respect, that alienates and divides.

[NeedKarma]

^^

That's why Tal has all those greenies. :)
Well said.

[Credendovidis]

... I think of the Judaism board as a place that people should visit that desire to know more about the Jewish faith (and/or history) and come willingly to ask questions ...

Indeed. One can be interested in (other) religions for many reasons, even without any interests ever to convert to any of them.
I know many Jewish people and am very much interested in their culture. In the past I communicated with many Jews about that. Still none of them ever tried to push me to accept their religion, even if from my mother's and her mother's side I am linked to Judaism.
It is only on the Christianity board that one feels that constant attempt to put pressure towards conversion.
Why can (some) Christians not understand that one can be interested in their religion without any need or wish to become a Christian? Their pushy approach only adds up to resentment.
;)

[Fr_Chuck]

It is the purpose to Christianity to tell others, that was the one main command of our Lord and Savior to tell others about him. The choice is always yours, but we have to be sure you have had that choice.

And of course we do it because we really love and care for you, we don't want you to for your lack of acceptace to be doomed to hell. We don't want that for our worst enemies.
So when christianity is talked about, salvation and telling others is really a required part of it.

And you can be saved today if you will only accept Christ

[talaniman]

and you can be saved today if you will only accept Christ

Saved from what?

[simoneaugie]

"I believe it as soon as I see it." Credendovidis is one clear-thinking person. But after reading his response to another post, I must ask; what if you were bind? Suppose you were Helen Keller without the ability to feel touch. What would make you believe? Just needling you.

I believe that we cannot conceive of/find God because we keep looking at, or away from a particular religion or spot on the wall. We are all part of God. Yes, he is out there, or up there, or in here. But you can't "find" or believe in something that is tangible and intangible at the same time. You can only BE it. People write books that guide. People talk and talk and argue. If the person I most disagree with is part of God, and Im part of God, why even disagree? You are me, I am you.

We wage war, to kill the others that we disagree with. We are killing ourselves. What a waste of time and resources.

[Credendovidis]

... and you can be saved today if you will only accept Christ

So do I have to restart this entire topic AGAIN?
It's not a case of willing or unwilling. It's being unable.
I am just as strong in my current word view as you are in your current world view.
Your reply here is of no use at all.
;)