[NeedKarma]

So what is your opinion mountain_man?

[mountain_man]

This is the best place for a thread of this nature so I have removed the DUPLICATE posted in Christianity.

Our views may be contrary to your own, but at least we are willing to listen to various view points before jumping to judgemental conclusions.

Ps Only Mods and Admin can close threads ;)

WOW! You are going to override what and where a poster wants to start and discuss a thread just because you think it is best discussed here. Does everyone have to go through you with questions to make a determination where they can post there question?

I completely disagree with you!! You are trying to control discussions which I don't think is the intent of a administrator. The only discussion I will receive on this thread is attacking dissenting views for what I believe, I am able to stand to that, but my intention was to see where other christians were in their views and you are stifling that freedom of speech that I have.

[NeedKarma]

A person saying that they don't share the opinion that you posted (all the while asking for feedback on that opinion) is not attacking. Where did you get that idea? BTW most threads have people with dissenting opinions, that's what a discussion is.

As for Curly's decision - I believe that he may be trying to stem the abuse of the comment/rep feature thatmay have occurred in the question were in the other category.

[mountain_man]

So what is your opinion mountain_man?

I hold all of those religious views and think it is very important for other christians to establish and maintain those views in their everyday life. Christians need to be solidly founded in their beliefs regarding the supremacy of Christ and God and the absolute truths of the Bible. There has been a huge push to be more liberal in our views and that is fine as long as it is in line with the Bible.

[mountain_man]

A person saying that they don't share the opinion that you posted (all the while asking for feedback on that opinion) is not attacking. Where did you get that idea? BTW most threads have people with dissenting opinions, that's what a discussion is.

As for Curly's decision - I believe that he may be trying to stem the abuse of the comment/rep feature thatmay have occured in the question were in the other category.

I would like to hear from Curly not your interpretation of Curly's decision...

[Curlyben]

You are going to override what and where a poster wants to start and discuss a thread just because you think it is best discussed here.

What - no, within reasonable guidelines.
Where - Yes, as per NK's comments regarding previous abuses of the reputation feature in threads of this nature.

As you so rightly point out this is a discussion and so correctly belongs on the Religious Discussions board.


As for your other comments, you are more than welcome to disagree with my decision, but I will draw you attention to this:

Of course it is... if it's a public forum. This isn't.
Of course it it... if someone has paid for rights. No one has
People have merely registered to be allowed to use the forum and its facilities. That doesn't confer any rights.

"Freedom Of Speech" is concerned with what the Government can and cannot do.
This is a PRIVATE forum and as such "Freedom Of Speech" DOES NOT apply, we ALL must abide by the site rules.
People have merely registered to be allowed to use the forum and its facilities. That doesn't confer any rights or privileges of any kind.

Freedom of speech

Also may I draw you attention to this.

An Islamic worldview was defined as believing that absolute moral truths exist; that such truth is defined by the Qur'an; and firm belief in six specific religious views. Those views were that Allah is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe and He stills rules it today; salvation is a gift from Allah and cannot be earned; Satan is real; a Muslim has a responsibility to share their faith in Allah with other people; and the Qur'an is accurate in all of its teachings.

Sound familiar ?

[mountain_man]

Mr Gatekeeper (Curly)

What then are your responses to the questions posed in the original post?

[Curlyben]

I believe that I covered this in post #12, but as you missed it here it is again.

As you well know there are numerous denominations of Christianity all with varying views on the Bible and it's teachings.
Your quoted "Worldview" seems to represent a very narrow section of Christian indeed and to label anyone that doesn't hold the same view as a heretic (almost) simply goes against Christian teaching of tolerance and love of your fellow man.

[mountain_man]

That really doesn't answer the questions posted above. They were intended to ellicite your personal views not general facts.

[NeedKarma]

That really doesn't answer the questions posted above. They were intended to ellicite your personal views not general facts.

But I answered with my view and you started questioning me. Why?

[mountain_man]

But I answered with my view and you started questioning me. Why?

That response was not directed at you but at Curly... sorry for the confusion

[mountain_man]

NK, also at the time I responded to you I thought this question was posted on the Christianity board and I viewed your response as a sabotage. I apologize. Thanks for sharing your view.

[Donna Mae]

believing that absolute moral truths exist; that such truth is defined by the Bible; and firm belief in six specific religious views. Those views were that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life; God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe and He stills rules it today; salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned; Satan is real; a Christian has a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with other people; and the Bible is accurate in all of its teachings.[/I][/B]

What do you believe regarding this study? Do you hold a "biblical worldview"? And if you do in your opinion is this crucial view to have?

I know my opinions; what are yours?

I most certainly believe that Jesus Christ was, and will ever be, the only man who ever walked on this earth that had no sin. God is the all in all Creator and does still rule today. Salvation is by grace not by works. Satan is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Then He (Jesus) said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. The Bible is the one and only true word of God, and we are the workers.

I believe that without these truths, we will have no life in us. Jesus is the only way to salvation.

[Fr_Chuck]

First this post needed to be in the religoius discussions to allow a more open rant of everones opinion. These and all threads are moderated very well and threads posted in what we feel are in the wrong places will be.

For example I would say as to the original post, that 100 percent of all Christians believe this, since I can't believe someone could be a Christian and not believe all of those. Those appear to be basic articles of faith as described by creeds such as the Apostles creed.

Now I am not saying 100 percent of church goers, I would not even guess 1/2 of church goers are actually beleivers, there was study in England some years ago, and a percentage of Anglican Priests did not even believe in God, so what can one expect of the followers.

See in the Christian area I may have been over the top, as would the non beleivers challenging what you posted.

So in the end, had someone else not moved this, I would have myself as threads turn form questions to discussions

[mountain_man]

First this post needed to be in the religoius discussions to allow a more open rant of everones opinion. These and all threads are moderated very well and threads posted in what we feel are in the wrong places will be.

for example I would say as to the orginal post, that 100 percent of all Christians beleive this, since I can't beleive someone could be a Christian and not believe all of those. Those appear to be basic articles of faith as described by creeds such as the Apostles creed.

Now I am not saying 100 percent of church goers, I would not even guess 1/2 of church goers are actually beleivers, there was study in England some years ago, and a percentage of Anglican Priests did not even beleive in God, so what can one expect of the followers.

See in the Christian area I may have been over the top, as would the non beleivers challenging what you posted.

So in the end, had someone else not moved this, I would have myself as threads turn form questions to discussions

I appreciate your response however it is absurdly obvious that non-believers would not hold this view RIGHT! It goes without saying and opening it up only supports arguments that vere away from the original thread. I have been in this forum long enough to predict with accuracy who of the dissenting opinion will say what and why; and I am sure you can do the same. The point was to discuss why only 4% of believers/followers in this study held this view. Obviously people claiming to be christian do not hold this view in the majority. There has been 1 post in the "religious discussions" forum from a believer that agreed the rest have been opposition not that that is wrong it is just obvious. Again my intention was to see from people claiming to be christians if they held this view (to either support or counter the results of the study) and to discuss why, like you said, subscribe to those basic creeds. Thank you

[jillianleab]

Heathen here, so you know I don't hold the biblical worldview, but I do have a comment about this:

The point was to discuss why only 4% of believers/followers in this study held this view. Obviously people claiming to be christian do not hold this view in the majority.

The "biblical worldview" is one which is conservative, and I think the majority of Christians are not conservative, but "modern Christians". They like to indulge, they like to do their own thing, they like to make their own rules. They still call themselves Christians, but to the conservative Christian, they are not "true" Christians. I think a large portion of people who refer to themselves as "Christian" do so because they believe in god, in heaven, and in hell, but don't give any thought to the rest of the religion.

I didn't read the article you linked (don't have time right now), but I'd be interested to see where the study was conducted and who they polled. Statistics can be skewed, that's the problem with them!

[Galveston1]

As for me, I hold to all of the points in the Christian world view.

[NeedKarma]

From a review at Amazon:

In his book The Heart of Christianity (2003) Marcus Borg of Oregon State University describes how his university students have a uniformly negative image of Christianity. "When I ask them to write a short essay on their impression of Christianity," says Borg, "they consistently use five adjectives: Christians are literalistic, anti-intellectual, self-righteous, judgmental, and bigoted."

Christians might object, rather defensively, that it's unfair to draw sweeping conclusions based upon the report of one person. If you think that way, you'd be right in your logic but wrong in your conclusion. A new book called unChristian (2007) by David Kinnaman of the Barna Group presents objective research that supports Borg's subjective anecdote. Kinnaman's three-year study documents how an overwhelming percentage of sixteen to twenty-nine year olds view Christians with hostility, resentment and disdain.

These broadly and deeply negative views of Christians aren't just superficial stereotypes with no basis in reality, says Kinnaman. Nor are the critics people who've had no contact with churches or Christians. It would be a tragic mistake, he argues, for believers to protest that outsider outrage at Christians is a misperception. Rather, it's based upon their real experiences with today's Christians. In addition to their statistical research, the book includes anecdotes from people who were interviewed, follow-on comments at the end of each chapter by some 30 Christian leaders, and reflections about why we've come to such a place and how we might make it better.

According to Kinnaman's Barna study, here are the percentages of people outside the church who think that the following words describe present-day Christianity:

* antihomosexual 91%
* judgmental 87%
* hypocritical 85%
* old-fashioned 78%
* too political 75%
* out of touch with reality 72%
* insensitive to others 70%
* boring 68%

It would be hard to overestimate, says Kinnaman, "how firmly people reject-- and feel rejected by-- Christians" (19). Or think about it this way, he suggests: "When you introduce yourself as a Christian to a friend, neighbor, or business associate who is an outsider, you might as well have it tattooed on your arm: antihomosexual, gay-hater, homophobic. I doubt you think of yourself in these terms, but that's what outsiders think of you" (93).

Gabe Lyons of the Fermi Project who commissioned the Barna research remembers his first look at the data. "I'll never forget sitting in Starbucks, poring through the research results on my laptop. As I soaked it in, I glanced at the people around me and was overwhelmed with the thought that this is what they think of me. It was a sobering thought to know that if I had stood up and announced myself as a 'Christian' to the customers assembled in Starbucks that day, they would have associated me with every one of the negative perceptions described in this book" (222, his italics). Sad to say, Marcus Borg was even more right than he knew.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, often people with strong moral values, importance of family values, work ethics and the idea of personal responsibility, and though in faith and salvation though their Lord and Savior, many will wish to judge them with hate and non acceptance.

and for myself, if they wish to use those terms for someone who stands for Christ and will not be scard to admit what real sin is, thank God I am counted amount them.

[NeedKarma]

people with strong moral values, importance of family values, work ethics and the idea of personal responsiblity,

That defines most atheists I know including myself.