[dcold]

I'm struggling with a pair of lights in a small workroom. The circuit comes in and feeds the two lights (on one switch) and three outlets from the 2nd (middle) light.

I figured out that I needed to make two hot whites leading to the switch from the first light so I made both of the whites hot leading to the switch which comes back on the black and feeds the two lights when the switch is thrown. But the 2nd light in the middle didn't light. I figured out that I needed to make the neutral connection and "borrowed" the ground to connect back to the neutral at the original light (where the power comes in.) And the lights both worked.

Here's the dilemma. I have a wire in the second light box which I connected to the two hot whites to feed a junction box that in turn feeds some outlets (I know I probably shouldn't have outlets and lights on the same circuit but that's how the previous owner had it.) Well the outlets are now getting an open ground reading because I broke the connection back to the box when I "borrowed" the ground between the two lights.

So... now I'm thinking that I'm stuck running a 4 wire between the two lights (which will require tearing up my newly finished and painted ceilings) or coming up with a different configuration that I'm not seeing.

I'm so mad at the folks that finished the basement right now.

Any other configurations that would do the job?

[donf]

Dcold,

Where to start? Do you have any electrical experience at all or is this your first adventure in wiring?

First, did you or a licensed electrician submit an application for an electrical permit to make changes in the wiring of your room?

There are two ways to bring power from the SEP or Main panel to this workshop. The first is by using a sub panel or "B" panel. This let's you bring power into the room via a smaller panel box that you can install different size breakers into. For example you could have a 15 amp breaker to feed the lights via #14 AWG conductors. The next breaker would be a 20 amp breaker to feed the three outlets. Remaining breaker spaces could be filled as needed.
This would have been the way I would have done it.

The other is to run a branch circuit off the Main Panel to feed every thing in the room, which sounds like what happened.

If you are really new to residential wiring, I would suggest that you visit a Barnes and Noble or Borders, Lowe's, Home Depot and pick up a copy of Black and Decker's "Complete Guide to electrical wiring".

This way you would be able to see how branch circuits are wired. I'm pretty sure that the circuit design you are describing is pictured correctly done .

As to your borrowed White. Every white that you used as a hot wire must be marked at each end with either a band of black or red tape to signify that these are Hot wires and not Neutral return wires.

I've got to run now but if you could sketch out what you think you have and scan it or snap a picture of ir and append it to your next response using the advanced tab at the bottom of the response block, I would be most appreciative.

[hkstroud]

I really confused. You said you have two lights but you make referance to a middle light.
I don't under stand what you mean by "you needed to make two hot whites leading to the switch". Did you mean two hot wires? Also you mentioned a junction box. Where is it? You cannot "borrow" a ground.

Lets start over.

Is what you want to do the first or second drawing?

[hkstroud]

Or maybe it this.

[dcold]

Thank you for your responses and I'm going to (hopefully) attach a drawing.

I know what I've got set up now is not safe... there is no ground to the panel. So I'm wondering if my only choice is to run a 12/3 wire between the two lights.

To shed a little light on the situation :)
I'm a little experienced having remodeled two properties before this but I'm dealing with a home where an amateur electrician who didn't read ANY books did the basement. So, I've already fixed an in-wall splice with the juction box from which I ran two new plugs.

I thought I was done until I was putting up the two lights and saw all sorts of splices and patches and wonderfulness. After two days of trying to make it "right" I realize why all the grounds were undone and some grounds attached to whites and all sorts of foolishness.

I lived in this house for 8 years and I just want to make it right for the next family. I've already fixed many other wiring goofs and was hoping this one would be an easy fix.

Hopefully the drawing will do a better job of explaining than I did.

[hkstroud]

You need to either come into the junction box, an outlet or the second light with your power or you need to install 3-conductor (4 wire) cable between the lights.

[MOWERMAN2468]

I too got confused with the reference of two lights, then the reference to the middle light.

[stanfortyman]

You need to either come into the junction box, an outlet or the second light with your power or you need to install 3-conductor (4 wire) cable between the lights.

dcold, THIS is the answer.
What you have in that drawing is EXTREMELY unsafe!

[donf]

Dcold,

What do you mean by, " There is no ground to the panel." Are you referencing the Service Entry Panel or Main Panel or is there a "B" or Subpanel in this room?

I am still waiting on critical load information and the wiring size of the conductors connecting all your devices. You absolutely need to know if you have the correct circuit breaker and conductor thickness for what you want to do.

Also, your drawing causes me concerns because you appear to be bringing power into the first light and then via conductors connecting light 2 and from there to the switch. With this drawing, you might as well not have the switch

I need some time to look through the other postings, but normally the responders here shy away from designing circuits for posters. I'll be happy to keep plugging away, but there is way too much information that is absolutely needed. The Main Panel Breaker Size, the conductor size between the Main Panel and the First light. You do not show a secondary panel so I'm back to a home-run connection from the Main panel to the first light and then you try to daisy chain everything together. To me it looks like a fire waiting to happen.

[dcold]

You need to either come into the junction box, an outlet or the second light with your power or you need to install 3-conductor (4 wire) cable between the lights.

Thank you, hk. I was afraid of that.

Stan, I know it's unsafe... you should have seen the wiring in the box BEFORE I took it apart!

Thanks for your help.

D.