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BMI · Feb 26, 2008, 01:16 PM

So workerbee, essentially you took what I wrote about you and spun it in your own words and shot I back at me?

First off you are incorrect about Einstein, that's all. The comment about Mother Teresa's priest friend is absurd, keep watching t.v, your gaining quite the belief because of it. By theway, did you read what I wrote? I get the nagging suspicion you fast read and pick out what you like but you don't really read everything being said. If that's the case you should not even be writing here.

In response to the "open/closed mind argument" that's really a bunch of rubbish to be used when you have no further points to be made. Like Fr. Chuck said earlier, to believe in something a close mind will always exist, its a lot different than no respecting one's views. I believe in hell, I believe that if you do not believe in God you get what you believe, and that is no afterlife, nothing. So yes I am closed minded in some regards relating to my belief but then again who isn't?? I don't tell you to believe because my belief says you will get what you believe, I don't feel sorry for those who don't believe, it's their life. All of this back and forth is based on something entirely different.

Trying to prove what cannot be comprehended by man is foolishness, you obviously don't subscribe to faith, great! Hope it works out for you. Don't expect people to be able to prove that which cannot be proved and then continue playing that card as a defence or for any other reason.

BMI · Feb 26, 2008, 01:41 PM

"But throughout his life, Einstein was consistent in rejecting the charge that he was an atheist. "There are people who say there is no God," he told a friend. "But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." And unlike Sigmund Freud or Bertrand Russell or George Bernard Shaw, Einstein never felt the urge to denigrate those who believed in God; instead, he tended to denigrate atheists. "What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos," he explained." - TIME 2007

"In fact, Einstein tended to be more critical of debunkers, who seemed to lack humility or a sense of awe, than of the faithful. "The fanatical atheists," he wrote in a letter, "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who--in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses'-- cannot hear the music of the spheres." - TIME 2007

"For some people, miracles serve as evidence of God's existence. For Einstein it was the absence of miracles that reflected divine providence. The fact that the world was comprehensible, that it followed laws, was worthy of awe." - TIME 2007

Also, in further response to being open minded. So far as I can tell workerbee, your arguments are based on a T.V show of Mother Teresa, googling an Einstein passage, and watching a 2 hour video posted here! If that's your view of things than close your mind just a bit as it seems you are very impressioned with whatever it is you see at the time.

Delete/disagree at will.

nicki143 · Feb 26, 2008, 01:54 PM

My views on this are as follows I am not that great with words so please bear with me
What zeitgeist is trying to get across is that we believe what people want us to believe
Such as there is a god and jesus how do we really know he is there have you seen him yourself
9/11 was just terrible but the american government wouldnever do something like that to its own people would it
The wall street crash was that all it was made out to be
The world is all about control the government,church even the media all make you believe these things are real they get it in your head and in the end you believe but then you think you made that decision yourself when in fact they controlled you they told you things put things in place to make you believe.
Like the church in the beginning of zeitgeist it makes a joke god needs money he does not need money he is not there the church wants your money so they can live a life of luxuary whilst you work your butt off for them why because youy believe evrything they tell you.
Why do you believe because if the bloke at the front of the church is right and you do not believe you will burn in hell so you best not take that chance.
Its all brain washing never did believe never will believe when I am dead I am dead

talaniman · Feb 26, 2008, 02:58 PM

The thing that has always stuck in my craw was the pomp, ceremony and traditions that organised religion attaches to itself and the self righteous way they can put forth there "truth" as absolute and unbending. That fire and brimstone is so self serving and consider even with the great works many churches do, is so wholly inadequate when compared to the real needs of those it purports to serve. Not saying all, bit there are enough, to tell me to leave those folks alone, as I cannot change them. Yes many are closed minded, that's there choice, and has not a darn thing to do with me and mine. Live and let live and if you see me in hell, I'm going to laugh my butt off. But if we meet in the line to heaven, I will still consider letting you have a cut in front of me. That's the kind of human I am.

Greg Quinn · Feb 26, 2008, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

The thing that has always stuck in my craw was the pomp, ceremony and traditions that organised religion attaches to itself and the self righteous way they can put forth there "truth" as absolute and unbending. That fire and brimstone is so self serving and consider even with the great works many churches do, is so wholly inadequate when compared to the real need s of those it purports to serve. Not saying all, bit there are enough, to tell me to leave those folks alone, as I cannot change them. Yes many are closed minded, that's there choice, and has not a darn thing to do with me and mine. Live and let live and if you see me in hell, I'm gonna laugh my butt off. But if we meet in the line to heaven, I will still consider letting you have a cut in front of me. That's the kind of human I am.

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I'll be the one to cut in front, I'll also be wearing a mask so as "God'' does not recognize me. :D

Greg Quinn · Feb 26, 2008, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by nicki143

My views on this are as follows i am not that great with words so please bear with me
What zeitgeist is trying to get across is that we beleive what people want us to beleive
Such as there is a god and jesus how do we really know he is there have you seen him youself
9/11 was just terrible but the american goverment wouldnever do something like that to its own people would it
The wall street crash was that all it was made out to be
The world is all about control the goverment,church even the media all make you believe these things are real they get it in your head and in the end you believe but then you think you made that decision yourself when infact they controlled you they told you things put things in place to make you beleive.
Like the church in the beginning of zeitgeist it makes a joke god needs money he does not need money he is not there the church wants your money so they can live a life of luxuary whilst you work your butt off for them why because youy belive evrything they tell you.
Why do you believe because if the bloke at the front of the church is right and you do not believe you will burn in hell so you best not take that chance.
Its all brain washing never did believe never will belive when i am dead i am dead

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It is so much like the Matrix,:eek: except I can't shut it off.

jj333 · Feb 26, 2008, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

I'm an atheist and have been since I was very young. I always had a great argument due to being brought up in a religious home, but never had the answer as to how religion came into play. My friend brought this video over to my house and it seemed a little boring at first, then about ten minutes into it, I realized this may very well be the answer to my question!! I've researched arguments against the facts here and have found none that out weigh the obvious. The thing is, I'm shocked at how it was in my face and every ones face all this time. Please watch this segment and tell me what you think and if you can see another truth. Best regards, Greg Q

Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007

I strongly suggest you watch this video that refutes the false claims by zeitgest YouTube - Zeitgeist | The Response (Part 1) then do your own diligent research.

Greg Quinn · Feb 27, 2008, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by jj333

I strongly suggest you watch this video that refutes the false claims by zeitgest YouTube - Zeitgeist | The Response (Part 1) then do your own diligent research.

______________________________-
Awesome, thanks for the link. I've already watched a little of it and I have read a few of those arguments before. I wish they had posted links as to where they obtain their information, it would be much easier to research each question. Where did you go to prove it was false? I've been going to forums mostly.

workerbee · Feb 27, 2008, 10:38 AM

BMI. This is getting boring. I want to respond more but what' s the point?
Greg I went to the library and saw the film, this is compelling but is true?

workerbee

BMI · Feb 27, 2008, 10:53 AM

I agree workerbee, quit while your only this far behind.

workerbee · Feb 27, 2008, 11:29 AM

I think I am way ahead. I guess we have different measuring sticks Huh?

workerbee

BMI · Feb 27, 2008, 11:44 AM

Perhaps we do, mine's brand new, the steel one's with all the conversions. Yours must be the one's my dad breaks up to use as poles for the tomatoes:)

All right, I'm done... seriously, no more. Workerbee, hopefully we can war on another topic or dare I suggest... agree?? Let's move on from this thread, it has enough pages to keep all those interested busy for a while, kind of like a bee.

K, with a joke that bad I seriously am out.

Greg Quinn · Feb 27, 2008, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by workerbee

BMI. this is getting boring. I want to respond more but what' s the point?
Greg i went to the library and saw the film, this is compelling but is true?

workerbee

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I'm not sure, I know there are some pretty amazing coincidences. I'm also seeing arguments that sway either way in other forums.
I've been trying to find a better copy of "The response" to burn and share with a few of my student friends.
Its hard to find time to research old historical truths, misleads & misinterpretations when life is so busy with other things. I've certainly made it half of my computer time, but... I seem to always get side tracked finding unrelated stories that might have been relative to the questions (a lot of wasted reading). I keep a paper and pen + I keep Word open, but mostly I only have questions written down. I also went into your posted link and found the prayer argument to be entertaining. I'm praying for an amputee right now, I hope you are too.

Greg Quinn · Feb 27, 2008, 12:17 PM

You guys and your little sticks.

workerbee · Feb 28, 2008, 07:16 AM

Greg, it might interest you to know that I asked about Zeitgiest on another forum, the response from one who said he had met the women who worked on the first part but wanted to make it clear that she had nothing to do with the second and third parts.
He also said the second part was proposterous, I asked why here is his answer hope you find it interesting: "A few years ago, Popular Mechanics put together a team of top engineers and scientists to go over every single point that the conspiracy theorists brought up. In nearly every instance they found that the theories were based on ridiculous ideas of normal physics, misinterpretations of evidence, or outright lies. Most of these were so obvious that they were laughable, like the shadow that the right engine cast on the wheelwell of one of the planes being seen as a missile strapped to the fuselage. The conspiracy nuts point to one blurry frame of video which sort of looks like that, but when you see the moving video in context it's blatently obvious what's really happening."

I never knew any of this it goes to show that these conspiracy nuts should not be believed
To easily. Years ago a friend who was a born again Christian told me about a conspiracy book that she thought was incredible. Well, none of the predictions came true. In the film it says that by May 2008 we (I guess Americans) will be required to have an ID card. I am willing to bet it won't happen.

workerbee
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talaniman · Feb 28, 2008, 08:30 AM

It already required, if you drive, or vote, or cash a check, or use a credit card, but a house, or car, rent an apartment, fly in a plane..!

jillianleab · Feb 28, 2008, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by workerbee

Greg, it might interest you to know that i asked about Zeitgiest on another forum, the response from one who said he had met the women who worked on the first part but wanted to make it clear that she had nothing to do with the second and third parts.
He also said the second part was proposterous, I asked why here is his answer hope you find it interesting: "A few years ago, Popular Mechanics put together a team of top engineers and scientists to go over every single point that the conspiracy theorists brought up. In nearly every instance they found that the theories were based on ridiculous ideas of normal physics, misinterpretations of evidence, or outright lies. Most of these were so obvious that they were laughable, like the shadow that the right engine cast on the wheelwell of one of the planes being seen as a missile strapped to the fuselage. The conspiracy nuts point to one blurry frame of video which sort of looks like that, but when you see the moving video in context it's blatently obvious what's really happening."

I never knew any of this it goes to show that these conspiracy nuts should not be believed
to easily. years ago a friend who was a born again Christian told me about a conspiracy book that she thought was incredible. Well, none of the predictions came true. In the film it says that by May 2008 we (I guess Americans) will be required to have an ID card. I am willing to bet it won't happen.

workerbee
__________________

I saw the same article; it was also on a TV program (can't remember which one). It was very interesting, and the creators of the film were on the program recanting some of their "facts". I remember especially the "Building Engineer" in the film... he was, in reality, a construction worker. Maybe that's like calling garbage men "Sanitation Specialists"...

I think a lot of people who think the government is capable of such things think our government is a lot more put together than they actually are. Move to DC; you'll learn! :)

Greg Quinn · Feb 29, 2008, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

It already required, if you drive, or vote, or cash a check, or use a credit card, but a house, or car, rent an apartment, fly in a plane........................!!!!!!!!!

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Basically live.
Alex Jones Predicts 911
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Allheart · Feb 29, 2008, 04:17 AM

Personally,

I don't think I would survive very well here without believing in the Love of God.
I just really wouldn't it would be so hard for me to handle a great deal of things.

But as I cherish my faith, I also cherish whatever is or is not in your heart. All of you are individuals, with many wonderful gifts, talents, blessings and are entitilted to whatever is in your heart.

Acceptance is an act of love and helps for each of us to grow and share in what we believe.

Clough · Feb 29, 2008, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Allheart

Personally,

I don't think I would survive very well here without believing in the Love of God.
I just really wouldn't it would be so hard for me to handle a great deal of things.

But as I cherish my faith, I also cherish whatever is or is not in your heart. All of you are individuals, with many wonderful gifts, talents, blessings and are entitilted to whatever is in your heart.

Acceptance is an act of love and helps for each of us to grow and share in what we beleive.

I really like what you say here, Allheart! :)