[BMI]

Jesus was illiterate?

Perhaps you misinterpret what is being said, you can find no logic in the statement made?

The article you refer to must be the one posted in Time magazine. You say Mother Teresa received no answer from God, was it not her that said God told her to do all the great things she did? Did Mother Teresa die believing in a God despite the fact that she felt alone? I wonder why that would be, perhaps it is along the lines of what I mentioned before.

Sorry if I sound aggressive workerbee, I know you do not intend to come off the way your writing suggests, however, that's how it seems. ESPECIALLY the website post "whydoesGodhateamputees", by far the stupidest, most inane, mis-guided, foolish web address I have ever come across. I question why you would even post a link to something like that, you seem like a very nice person.

[workerbee]

Let me answer your questions one by one. As far as jesus being illiterate, as I said there were no writings in his hand so it is possible that he was illiterate as were most people of his day. He said illness is caused by sin, so does that sound like an all knowing god speaking or someone who did not know about illness. 2 Mother Terasa said those things form her letters (read her book just came out) As far as the amuptees site is concerned I am surprised you can't see the humor in it. The point of the name is that we hear about certain cures , a lot turn out to be false but if they are true then why no amputees ever getting a limb back? God must have something against them or these cures are false because no matter how much you pray God can't grow a limb, why not? Perhaps pray does not work ( read the clinical trail) I want proof if possible of prayer, etc. Without proof you get lots of nutjobs, like those crazies who thought that killing themselves they would enter a U F O hiding behind Hale-bopp or the group who believe with no proof I might add that zionists are planning to take over the U S for the antichrist, etc, etc,etc. these days faith is just not enough, the people I just menetioned all had faith they were correct

workerbee

[Hajnal]

Well, I think "god" was created by people, who realised, that to be able to control masses of people they need something untouchable, un reachable who people can fear.
A king, or any any living ruler is vulnerable, since they are physically harmable... but a "thing" like "god" is not...
People put down the 10, and no one can get angry at them, because "god" say that...
The whole world is controlled by "gods"... lol the real "god" is money though.. LOL
But a parent, who loose a child, need to be able to say : " she or he is with god now in haven"... otherwise it would loose its mind.
I work as a paramedic now, and when I get some one to breath again relatives often say: "Thank god"
.. and I think: "No Mr. thank me"... If its up to your god, why did u dialed 911... why not the number of the Vatican?
When 30.000 children dies on this planet EVERY 24 hours... and the big churches are sitting on such an unbelievable amount of money... how can they preach to me about I am not a good person, because I don't believe they BS?
Its clear to me, that there are no god as such... if there would be god, he/she would have ended our misery long time ago...

[ScottGem]

Its clear to me, that there are no god as such....if there would be god, he/she would have ended our misery long time ago....

I agree with much of what you said. One of the reasons I don't believe in organized religion is because I cannot believe in a deity powerful enough to create our universe who would allow such suffering as we see daily.

I'm sure other people will argue free will and preparation for heaven and stuff, but that just smacks of the carrot and stick approach where the carrot is never seen.

[Allheart]

I agree with much of what you said. One of the reasons I don't believe in organized religion is because I cannot believe in a diety powerful enough to create our universe who would allow such suffering as we see daily.

I'm sure other people will argue free will and preparation for heaven and stuff, but that just smacks of the carrot and stick approach where the carrot is never seen.

Hi Scott,

It is my belief in my heart that Our Heavenly Father does not allow all the suffering we see.
We create the suffering and we allow it. This makes Our Father's heart very heavy and sad.

The starving children? That's our responsibility - collectively, we create this suffering.

The best way I can compare it - which may be off the wall - but then again it's me :)...

It would be like saying, I can't believe his parents allow him to be addicted to drugs.

No way would a parent want their child to do drugs and certainly would not allow it.

Our Father is counting on all of us, to help each other out and I don't think we are doing too well. My shameful self included.

Sorry :( Didn't mean to preach - and not saying your wrong Scott - just sharing my beleifs and what is in my heart.

[ScottGem]

Sorry :( Didn't mean to preach - and not saying your wrong Scott - just sharing my beleifs and what is in my heart.

And I respect those beliefs. Clearly more people believe the way you do then the way I do. But your reasoning is just the type of reasoning I expected. Its all based on faith and I'm a hard facts kind of guy.

[Allheart]

And I respect those beliefs. Clearly more people believe the way you do then the way I do. But your reasoning is just the type of reasoning I expected. Its all based on faith and I'm a hard facts kinda guy.

I respect your beliefs as well and no, I think there are many that belief as you do as well.

I'm sure there are some hard facts out there, but that's not my strong area.

I just share with you, that my belief is, that God does love us and never wants or wishes us to suffer.

Thanks though for respecting my beliefs. Never doubted you would. :)

[workerbee]

All heart, it is a bit naïve to say we cause all the suffering, sounds like an excuse to me. At any rate God does not help at all. I would like to ask you a question allheart, if someone has a problem like a tumor in the spinal column and this person loses the ablilty to walk
Will pray cause this person to be 100% normal again like in the Bible? I think you know the answer to that. Pray does not work!! That should be a red flag to you. Most people believe because it is a pshcological need. Also people believe the religion ofhteir community so if you were brought up in India you would be walking with a big red dot on you forehead


workerbee

[jennyrena]

Do you believe in love? You can't see it or touch it you feel it. And I have spoken to the Lord in prayer and felt him so strong that it amazes me that people don't know he's there. How did you get your breathe? It came from somewhere.and as far as giving the 10 to God, reason being is because it's hard to let it go. It's called sacrifice and what do we love more than anything, but money, to let it go shows you love him more, just as you sacrifice in fasting, oh how we love food.I say this not to be hateful but because I can't stand the thought of anyone perishing due to ignorance, thank God he said he would have mercy on the ignorant. God is real wheither you believe or not and I KNOW THE DAY WILL COME WHEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD and no amount of other gods or beliefs can make that fact go away. If you have children why would you want to chance teaching them this. If the time comes and Gods not there(ha!ha!)then you will have lost nothing. But if he is may he have mercy on them I pray. Love to all

[NeedKarma]

I KNOW THE DAY WILL COME WHEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD

Nah. Not even in all Caps.

if you have children why would you want to chance teaching them this.

I have kids, they are doing quite well without reading the bible, imagine that!

[Allheart]

all heart, it is a bit naive to say we cause all the suffering, sounds like an excuse to me. At any rate God does not help at all. I would like to ask you a question allheart, if someone has a problem like a tumor in the spinal column and this person loses the ablilty to walk
will pray cause this person to be 100% normal again like in the Bible? i think you know the answer to that. Pray does not work!!!!! that should be a red flag to you. Most people beleive because it is a pshcological need. Also poeple beleive the religion ofhteir community so if you were brought up in India you would be walking with a big red dot on you forehead


workerbee

Did someone call Allheart... here I am :):).

Hi workerbee... ahhhhhh wonderful question... if someone has a tumor - would it be God who heals it?

It is my belief that God has blessed certain people with certain gifts. And I believe that God has blessed certain people with the gifts and intelligence needed to be a doctor.
So, indirectly yes, God does have his loving hand in there to help heal. Now, I can hear your thoughts... what happens if the tumor does not heal. I believe in my heart, that God wants to call that person home. It is their time and we their loved ones, yes suffer with great grief, but because we love them so dearly, we have such a peace and joy that they are in a far better place and believe you me, it's not a defense mechanism.

I miss my Dad and My Father in Law so much. Two people are no longer on this earth, that love me, truly love me... how many people actually truly love us in that way? And now I have two less, but guess what? My heart is so incredibly happy that they are in a far better place and finally at peace.

And I wouldn't mind a red dot on my forehead at all - :) I actaully love that look.

I may be naïve, not sure, probably am about certain things, but as I get older, sadly the fog lifts a little more and I don't always like what I see, but sometimes I do.

Yes, I believe those children starving we can fix it. There are many sufferings here on earth that we have the capability to fix.

Sometimes, I think it's too easy to blame God - ( I don't mean that harshly ) It's almost like blaming the teacher for failing the test when we didn't study.

I hope you know I do not demand I am right. I promise you, I feel my way around many things and count on you and many to help guide me and hopefully I can help guide others as well.

[BMI]

Workerbee - I see no humour in you website posting and your conclusions based on amputees growing limbs ( God can, God should, why not) and all that is not even me worth trying to explain.

Your obviously taking interpretations of the Bible and applying them out of context, not knowingly of course. The remark ablout Jesus saying illness is caused by sin is a very relevant and logical statement, you are viewing it on the surface, it may mean different things to different people but it makes perfect sense to me, I'm not going to write 10 paragraphs explaining my view though.

I know exactly what Mother Teresa wrote and, again, you interpret it according to your beleifs, if you do not believe in a God it is small wonder why you view what she is saying in the light that you do. My interpretation of what she was saying is far deeper than just the words spoken, I would imagine that is so based on my faith.

Finally, this stuff about proof, show me proof, prove God exists and prayer works, is just such a pointless argument and really you know very well none can do that. Prove love then? I want the scientific explanation please! Prove all your feeling to me, hurt, love, sadness, I want proof in front of me showing me that these are indeed your feelings and that they do exist because I do not accept you telling me they are real, and so therefore I will post on this thread that you have no emotions and there is no such thing as love regardless of how strongly you try to convince me.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Workerbee - I see no humour in you website posting and your conclusions based on amputees growing limbs ( God can, God should, why not) and all that is not even me worth trying to explain.

Your obviously taking interpretations of the Bible and applying them out of context, not knowingly of course. The remark ablout Jesus saying illness is caused by sin is a very relevant and logical statement, you are viewing it on the surface, it may mean different things to different people but it makes perfect sense to me, I'm not going to write 10 paragraphs explaining my view though.

I know exactly what Mother Teresa wrote and, again, you interpret it according to your beleifs, if you do not beleive in a God it is small wonder why you view what she is saying in the light that you do. My interpretation of what she was saying is far deeper than just the words spoken, I would imagine that is so based on my faith.

Finally, this stuff about proof, show me proof, proove God exists and prayer works, is just such a pointless argument and really you know very well none can do that. Proove love then? I want the scientific explaination please! Proove all your feeling to me, hurt, love, sadness, I want proof in front of me showing me that these are indeed your feelings and that they do exist b/c I do not accept you telling me they are real, and so therefore I will post on this thread that you have no emotions and there is no such thing as love regardless of how strongly you try to convince me.

Well put BMI! I agree with you 100%.

[Allheart]

I completely did not see Workabees signature... still haven't. By the sounds of it... not going to either.

[jennyrena]

Nah. Not even in all Caps.

I have kids, they are doing quite well without reading the bible, imagine that!

I do imagine that and I cry for them. But there is always hope. The lord can bring anyone to there knee's. God bless all

[jennyrena]

Well put BMI! I agree with you 100%.

So many saying show me proof that god is real, but they have no proof of how they breathe every day or love. How can you really love without god? He is love. '' BELOVED LET US LOVE ONE ANOTHER FOR LOVE IS OF GOD AND EVERY ONE THAT LOVETH IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWETH GOD, HE THAT LOVETH NOT KNOWETH NOT GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE'' 1st JOHN 4: 7-8

[Greg Quinn]

Years ago I watched a documentary on A&E about death. I remember the leading NY forensic anthropologist started his career as a firm die hard "believer", after a few years on the job he became an atheist stating that "NON QUOTE: A God would never allow the things to happen to little children and people that he has seen happen." People say it is part of gods plan? The little girl would be brutally raped and murdered & die the most horrific death imaginable. If that is gods plan then he is very sadistic, and I wouldn't consider him to be my friend. And if I were a believer and that was my little girl everyone around me including myself would blame the man and wish death upon him. Then people say "It was the devil somehow working through the man who committed the crime" and I say, your God could have prevented it.
I think its silly to believe that a God would humour an evil force such as the devil and allow that man who committed the violent sick crime to become what he became as a result to his horrific unbearable childhood. I'm running long on this outside the bible view, but to sum it up. Why would a all powerful God need puppets? Do gods get bored? Where would a little girls suffering show up in this divine plan? Why would a god need a plan? Plans are for
Vacations, or go to a party. Plans are for humans not Gods.

[ScottGem]

i do imagine that and i cry for them. but there is always hope. the lord can bring anyone to there knee's. god bless all

Oh Puhleeze!!

Why can't you respect that others don't believe as you do? Look at the exchanges between AllHeart and myself. She is happy and comfortable in her beliefs and she is secure enough that she doesn't have to foist them on someone who believes differently. She states what she believes in a way that invites people to explore her beliefs if they want to, but not hit them over the head with it.

I'm sure NK's kids are happy and well adjusted and do not miss tyranny of the church. I'm also sure that if they CHOOSE to explore other religions NK will not stand in their way.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Reasons unknown to all human beings, but he lets it happen; for a reason. IT IS hard to believe that God lets all horrific things happen to the most innocent, and those shall be punished. Do you believe in Karma Gregg?

It is funny how in a lot of drunk driving accidents, the sober person lives and the drunk person survives. I believe through Gods eyes, he will suffer with the pain of knowing that he killed an innocent person. That is punishment enough.

[jennyrena]

Oh! Please Won't Be The Words At That Time. And As Far As My Belief I Say This As Pleasantly As I Can, Do You Really Believe If You Don't Shout It?? & I Know It's Hard To Understand Why Children Must Suffer, But The Fact Is We Are Here To Make A Decision Heaven Or Hell. This Life Is Not The Point It's Our Eternity. That's What It's All About.your Soul Carries Good Or Bad And People Get Caught In The Crossfire Of Your Decision When You Choose To Be Evil And That's Why People Get Hurt. And That's Why God Prepared A Better Place. This Life Is But A Rehearsal