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Dave Ermeling · Feb 23, 2008, 04:37 PM

I noticed in some houses being built nearby that where they stubbed the copper pipe out for the sink they also ran a stub up about a foot and put a cap on it. I'm assuming it's to prevent water hammer or something. Do I need to do the same thing for my copper in my finished basement or can I just run the elbow and stub straight out?

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 04:58 PM

Hi Dave... no... no need to do that anymore. Depending on where you live, they have asked plumber's to stop doing the copper pipe stub ups with caps... seems they are a place for bacteria, etc. to hide... *yuck*... so just stub your pipes over/into valves with elbows and will be good to go.

If you find a need to reduce water hammer after the installation then you would just install a pair of water hammer arrestors (sold at any home supply store) in the lines in basement or similar.. but I doubt you will need them.

Just be sure to hang your pipes well... NOTE HERE that you can overhang pipes..so do not LOCk pipes in so tight that they will not allow pipes to move due to expansion/contraction of pipes...that would lead to noisy creaking sounds later that you may confuse as water hammer when it is actually expansion/contraction of pipes and you hung so tight that you can do nothing about it. My point is that water hammer arrestors will not reduce noises in system due to overhanging and contraction/expansion of pipes... so just keep that in mind when hanging pipes.

That should do it for you Dave.

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Dave Ermeling · Feb 23, 2008, 05:09 PM

Cool, thanks a bunch Massplumber2008. Do you recommend (for future repair/replacement) using a sweat-on to female pipe thread adapter and then using a nipple from the adapter to the 1/4 turn angle valve? Or would it be better to just stub out the 1/2" copper then sweat on a male pipe thread adaptor? I just don't really want a sweat-on angle stop valve with copper pipe visible coming through the wall. At Lowe's I seen they have brushed nickel nipples and escutchons which would match my other hardware.

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 06:07 PM

Dave, you could do that... you could also use the sweat type angle shutoff at your toilet (comes with bell shaped flange... see pic. Below).. or you could also stub out copper, set plastic F&C plate (floor and ceiling plate) and install a compression valve (see pic. #2).

These are both available at the home supply store.. or the 1/2" copper x 3/8" female adapter will work fine, too with 3/8" x 4 chrome nipple....then add a 3/8" female x 3/8" compression chrome angle stop.. and should be good to go.. Any of these work. The sweat stop as seen in pic. Is great, but soldering can be difficult.. so if go this route, clean inside and outside a bit.. then sweat.

ALL shutoffs mentioned are available in satin nickel as well.

IF this is helping, please RATE MY ANSWER by clicking on rate this answer at upper right or at bottom of post. Thank you.

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Dave Ermeling · Feb 23, 2008, 08:10 PM

Massplumber, what combination do you recommend for the bathroom vanity and bar? I've been trying to figure out what king of valve I need to use for the hot and cold lines for the vanity and the wet bar. There are several different types of angle valves at Lowe's but none of them look like they fit the hoses they have. My sinks in the rest of the house have hoses and the toilets have tubing coming from the valves. We talked about the toilet set-up and I understand that one. I just can't tell what kind of connection the valves on the vanity and bar have. Hope I'm not confusing you too,, haha. Hope you can help. Thanks again.

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 08:21 PM

Answer this last question... and I will answer in early AM... How good are you at soldering?? Talk tomorrow. Thanks.

Dave Ermeling · Feb 23, 2008, 08:57 PM

I do pretty well. I soldered in 2 shut-off valves this morning so I can continue to work with the water on. I've done quite a bit in the past at work, just not a lot at home and never had to figure out the whole system in a residential basement. Usually I'm just sweating in 90's, Tee's, reducers and adaptors and such. No hurry, just whenever you get a minute I'd really appreciate your input. I wish Lowe's would pay their people to be more knowledgeable in areas like plumbing. Of course, if they were very knowledgeable, they probably wouldn't be woking there now would they?

KISS · Feb 23, 2008, 09:20 PM

I just went through that. Take a look here: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbi...ns-177330.html

Dave Ermeling · Feb 23, 2008, 09:52 PM

KISS, thanks. What kind of hoses did you use to connect to the valves? The valves I'm finding have nuts on them with a ferrule, like for flexible tubing. The other side is 3/8" female pipe threads. aka, 3/8" fnpt.

massplumber2008 · Feb 24, 2008, 07:24 AM

Hi Dave.

You want to make sure all shutoffs end in 3/8" compression...many different shutoffs...but all need to end in a 3/8" compression thread... ok?

Toilet supply tubes come semi-rigid (pic. #1) or flexible (pic.#2). They are sold in 9", 12", 16", 20", etc. lengths. For semi-rigid supplies, you will need to cut to length (buy longer than needed)... for flexible, just bend/manipulate to install. YOU order these as toilet thread (nut) x 3/8" compression supply x12", for example. If choosing to go with semi-rigid supply tube you will need to purchase a toilet supply nut separate.. or remove from old supply tube... if flexible, then has toilet nut attached.

Lavatory supply tubes also come semi-rigid (pic.#3) and flexible (pic.#4). These are standard almost everywhere. For semi-rigid, they are ordered as 3/8" inch compression tube x 12" lavatory supply tube... if flexible then order as 3/8" compression tube x 1/2" (IPS) female nut.

That's it... semi-rigid is harder to work with... but look great at the toilet supply ;)

Keep us posted.

PS... IPS stands for international pipe size.. do not get hung up on that.. in this case IPS means that a 1/2" brass nipple or a 1/2" black nipple screws into the nut of the flexible lavatory supply riser is all.

KISS · Feb 24, 2008, 07:29 AM

There are so many supply hoses at my local hardware store. Braided steel seems to be preferred.

Lowe's had mostly 3/8 compression and 1/2 compression (with ferrule) outlets on the valves.

Inlets were mostly 1/2 female NPT, 1/2 male NPT and 1/2 compression and 1/2" sweat.

They had one 3/8 FNPT - 3/8 compression valve, but that had an included adapter and wasn't chrome.

A local hardware store had a 1/2" push on valve made my Watts Regulator Company - Plumbing, Heating and Water Quality Products Manufacturer and the 3/8 fNPT input.

With all of that, I figured out there was only 3 pretty ways to do things and some require new construction:

1. 1/2 fnpt elbow with the mounting ears in the wall. 1/2 pipe flat estucheon.; 1/2' plated pipe stub.

2. 1/2 copper pipe stub
------1/2 flat or 1/2 bell estuucheon
------1/2 sweat, 1/2 compression

3. Hide a 3/8 female npt to 1/2 sweat female adapter under a bell flange. Use a 3/8" plated pipe

1 and 3 allow replacing the estucheon without replacing the valve.

Dave Ermeling · Feb 24, 2008, 10:09 AM

OK, I think I'll use the one that a 3/8" nipple screws into from the wall and I guess is 3/8" compression outlet to the sink. Do I remove the nut and ferrule that come with it and screw the hose on?
Also, do you recommend using 45 deg 1/2" elbows as much as possible instead of 90 deg elbows? Wasn't sure if the 90's would inhibit water flow more.
What about securing the lines inside the framing? I noticed in a lot of the houses being built locally, they flatten the ends of a piece of copper pipe, wedge it in the wall studs and then solder the water lines to them. Copper pipe is kind of expensive to be doing that it seems. Thanks again for your help.

KISS · Feb 24, 2008, 10:43 AM

That's the method I like best, but it's a little more labor intensive. Use a pair of soft-jaw plyers on the plated pipes to prevent marring them. Might set you back $25. The pipes are easy to mar.

Yep remove the nut and ferrule that comes with the valve.

About the 45's. Na. 90's would inhibit flow more. I can't remmember the losses.

The 90's with mounting ears is probably the best. That way the fitting is secure. Securing within the studs depends. The pipe should not flop around. You do have the options of using a ceiling flange, 3/8 rod and a clamp, where you can fix the distance to anywhere. Insulattion is something to think about now. There are clamps available for insulated pipe.
As an example look for "Armafix clamps".

Th builder, here used copper tubing for some of the supplies. It does have advantages in some cases, but not the one you selected.