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rodandy12 · Feb 21, 2008, 06:32 AM

I have a ranch style house with a crawl space built in the early '70s. It has bedrooms on one end and kitchen/laundry room on the other. The water heater was a gas 40 gallon lowboy in the crawl space beneath the bathrooms. It sits on dirt.

We added on and upgraded the kitchen several years ago and we added a new electric hot water heater on that end of the house at that time. We were in good shape for a while.

After some very heavy rain, the lowboy quit. When I got under the house, there had been some water around it, but it didn't look like the water had been inside where the pilot light and the gas burner are. I tried relighting the pilot and I could do it. The system would fire up and the heater would stay on for something like a minute or two, then go off and the pilot light would shut down, too. I replaced the thermocouple without effect. I called a plumber.

He told me I needed to replace the heater. This was pretty irritating since at the time, that water heater was about 3.5 years old... and it would light, just wouldn't stay lit. I didn't get to talk to him. He charged me $40. We called a second plumber.

This one said the same thing, but disconnected it from gas and water lines. He charged me $50.

That was over a year ago. We have been coasting along using the single electric heater. We have to run water in the bathrooms for quite a while for them to get hot enough to shave or shower. That wasn't much trouble, but my area is now experiencing a drought. Wasting all that water isn't right.

Here's the question (finally). Should I be thinking about replacing it or can it be fixed? If I replace it, should I be thinking about another lowboy or go tankless?

speedball1 · Feb 21, 2008, 06:54 AM

Here's the question (finally). Should I be thinking about replacing it or can it be fixed? If I replace it, should I be thinking about another lowboy or go tankless?

We have repair plumbers and then we have replacement plumbers. I was trained, back in the 40's as a repair plumber. At 3.5 years old, and if the tanks OK it would be more cost effective to keep what you have and repair it.
BUT WAIT! The repair might just be something both plumbers missed. Go out to the gas meter. On bthe house side is there a tee with a capped nnipple looking down from the tee? If so this is a drip looop designed to trap moisture before it can get to your burner. If it fills up water will enter with the gas. Your pilot and burner would light and run until water enterede the pilot lit shutting the pilot and the burner down. If you have such a drip loop, make sure the meter's shut off and drain the drip loop. Reconnect the gas and water and I bet you'll be back in business. Failing that get a plumber in t6hat knows gas hot water heaters and replace the pilot and thermocouple.
Let me know. Tom

hkstroud · Feb 21, 2008, 07:14 AM

Tom,

Wouldn't he (shouldn't he) also have a drip leg at the water heater?

Also since the heater is in the crawl space wouldn't it be feasible to install a recirculation line to the first water heater as opposed to replacement (should there be some other damage).

speedball1 · Feb 21, 2008, 07:30 AM

Wouldn't he (shouldn't he) also have a drip leg at the water heater?

All the ones I've seen were installed next to the meter but it could be installed next to the heater.

wouldn't it be feasible to install a recirculation line to the first water heater as opposed to replacement

I would say yes if he had more then a single element heater with no more then a 30 gallon capacity. The ideal set up would be if he replaced his old single element heater with a 40 gallon regular heater with a recirculating system and removed the old low boy. But the less expensive way would be to repair what he's got. Regards, Tom

rodandy12 · Feb 21, 2008, 07:50 AM

Our furnace is gas and sits (in the crawl space) within 3 feet of the lowboy. We haven't had any trouble at all with it and it is as old as the house. Wouldn't this suggest that if there is a drip leg, it is between the gas source for the furnace and the gas source for the hot water heater?

Also, when I was troubleshooting, I didn't just light the pilot and watch the burner work once. I did it four or five times in sequence over a space of about 15-20 minutes. The time between getting the pilot lit and system complete shutoff was always around 1-2 minutes.

iamgrowler · Feb 21, 2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

We have repair plumbers and then we have replacement plumbers. I was trained, back in the 40's as a repair plumber. At 3.5 years old, and if the tanks OK it would be more cost effective to keep what you have and repair it.

I don't know, Tom, the tank did sit on the dirt in a damp environment for three and a half years.

The burner is likely rusted and corroded and the low voltage circuitry in the gas control valve is also probably damaged from moisture.

If this were me showing up for the service call, I'd likely recommend replacement as well.

In addition, I'd require any new tank I installed be placed on an elevated concrete pad -- If the homeowner balked, I'd likely walk.

rodandy12 · Feb 21, 2008, 08:06 AM

We'd been in the house for over 20 years when this occurred. That was the second replacement heater. The previous one lasted 15 years. I had worked to minimize the moisture in the crawl space. I basically had no water under there until the extremely heavy rain.

speedball1 · Feb 21, 2008, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by rodandy12

We'd been in the house for over 20 years when this occurred. That was the second replacement heater. The previous one lasted 15 years. I had worked to minimize the moisture in the crawl space. I basically had no water under there until the extremely heavy rain.

Then I stick by my original statement. Check for a drip loop.

when I was troubleshooting, I didn't just light the pilot and watch the burner work once. I did it four or five times in sequence over a space of about 15-20 minutes. The time between getting the pilot lit and system complete shutoff was always around 1-2 minutes

Makes me wonder about the thermocouple. Besides moisture in the service line what else could it be? Tom

hkstroud · Feb 21, 2008, 11:22 AM

I just pulled the temperature setting knob off my water heater. There is an opening behind the knob where moisture could have gotten in. Might want to pull knob off and let it air out, or live dangerously, turn off gas and dry with a hair drier.

biggsie · Feb 21, 2008, 11:37 AM

I am not going to make a suggestion -- the crawl space is a the problem

The way I see it... having a water heater or furnace in there can be a problem --

You have metal units in a cold area and with heat -- you get condensation...

I just don't think they can be maintained properly in a crawl space

I think it is an accident waiting to happen

hkstroud · Feb 21, 2008, 11:41 AM

After 20 years?

rodandy12 · Feb 21, 2008, 12:21 PM

For the furnace more like 38 years.

In my neighborhood all the houses have either a basement, a basement and a crawlspace or just a crawlspace. My crawlspace has something like 3.5 feet of clearance on the furnace/heater end. I've seen several others and quite a few, even with basements and crawlspaces have the furnace in the crawlspace. Actually, that is misleading. Make it unimproved space not crawlspace. The furnace/water heater is sitting on dirt, but the ceiling is the same height as the basement.

speedball1 · Feb 21, 2008, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by biggsie

I am not going to make a suggestions -- the crawl space is a the problem

The way I see it... having a water heater or furnace in there can be a problem --

You have metal units in a cold area and with heat -- you get condensation...

I just don't think they can be maintained properly in a crawl space

Biggsie note;

Our furnace is gas and sits (in the crawl space) within 3 feet of the lowboy. We haven't had any trouble at all with it and it is as old as the house.

While you may be correct about the moistures the heater has operated as long as the house has been there.