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DIY2008 · Feb 16, 2008, 04:08 PM

Hello,
I am in the process of replacing my shower pan. Let me start with the specs. The house was built in the 70's. The shower pan is made of lead with a mortar mix inside. The house has a slab. I have already removed 8" or the bottom two tiles, exposing the wall studs. I started to chisel out the drain. I have gone down about 3" around the drain. I can see the threads for the top portion of the drain. I can see a flange on the drain pipe at the 3" mark, but I do not want to mess anything up. I feel that I am almost home, just need some advise. If I can break the drain free from the pan I should be home free. Any advise?

brian1973 · Feb 17, 2008, 03:53 PM

Why do you want to break the drain free from the pan

massplumber2008 · Feb 17, 2008, 04:42 PM

DIY2008... can you post pics. And like brian1973 asked.. why are you doing this? Are you planning to change drain only and then repour cement around drain and then tile floor and walls?

If so, let us know what you are planning and we will see what we can do to help... all phases of project... glad to help. Again... pics. Help.

brian1973 · Feb 17, 2008, 06:58 PM

If you are planning on keeping the existing drain, I have patented a drain cover that fits on your existing fitting, if you want to see...

Eau tendance: La beauté d'un Drain Carré

I'm based in Montreal but I can ship to you.

DIY2008 · Feb 18, 2008, 08:20 AM

Thanks for your help thus far. I probably did not explain this right. I am trying to remove the shower pan. In doing so I thought I had to chisel down around the drain to remove the pan. I am still within the mortar of the pan. Most shower pan drains I have seen are bolted together and the pan liner. I do not see any bolts on mine. I do see a flange of some sort just no bolts. I guess my question is how do I remove the upper stem of the drain so that I can remove the shower lead pan, so I can start rebuilding

massplumber2008 · Feb 18, 2008, 08:51 AM

A pic. Would be great here DIY. These types of flanges usually do have bolts. BUT I think you are focusing on drain too much at this time... remove the concrete... and then if still not clear cut the lead pan away from drain area... remove pan and then look at that drain again... more obvious I think.

I am going to try to talk you into a copper pan or the latest and greatest is a vinyl pan... but later... for now get that old pan out.

Hope that helped! Keep me posted!

speedball1 · Feb 18, 2008, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by DIY2008

Thanks for your help thus far. I probably did not explain this right. I am trying to remove the shower pan. In doing so I thought I had to chisel down around the drain to remove the pan. I am still within the mortar of the pan. Most shower pan drains I have seen are bolted together and the pan liner. I do not see any bolts on mine. I do see a flange of some sort just no bolts. I guess my question is how do I remove the upper stem of the drain so that I can remove the shower lead pan, so I can start rebuilding

Once you remove the tile and mortar you will be left with the shower pan and flange type shower drain,(see image) It will have bolts that you must remove anr the top half of the drain will come up alliwing you to remove the shower pan. Since it's lead I assume the pipes and flange are cast iron. If so the flange is caulked on with a poured lead and oakum joint. Do you wish to remove the bottom half of the flange or will you be using it again? Let me know, Tom

brian1973 · Feb 18, 2008, 04:37 PM

Good afternoon diy,

If you are planning to use a vinyl membrane and you decide to change your drain pipe assembly such as the one in this forum, a 4" square drain cover can be installed on top instead of the thin round one that comes with the assembly. Fyi, you can also use a product called blueskin or a similar liquid rubber membrane which is applied on top of your cement base and walls to achieve a superior waterproofing process which prevents any infiltration through your grout from reaching your denshield or cement board and your cement base. These types of membranes are great because you can glue your tiles directly on the protected surface . You can usually find these liquid membranes at home depot.

Eau tendance: La beauté d'un Drain Carré

Keep me posted on your work.

Thanks

DIY2008 · Feb 22, 2008, 08:58 PM

Thanks guys for your help. Its been awhile since my last post due to work and kids. I did bust all the mortar out and pulled the lead pan out. I had to cut the pan around the drain because when I went to turn the drain the entire pipe moved. After talking to a specialist at Lowe's he stated that the pipe was probably inserted in the lower drain pipe with a O-ring gasket and all I had to do was pull it out. So I pulled and the drain raised up 2". Now after looking in the hole of the sub floor the entire pipe is coming up. I took pics to post but they are all to big. Do you think I just need to cut the pipe and go with PVC? How do you go from cast to PVC? Thanks again for your help... Ryan

KISS · Feb 23, 2008, 12:00 AM

Use IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide to resize them. Use image resize and type 640 for the larger pixel dimension. Save as something else having say "640 x 480" in the filename.

brian1973 · Feb 23, 2008, 07:19 AM

Good morning dyi2008,

If you have access or the space to do so, cut the pipe and then install a mecanical joint, which is a rubber sleeve that fits on top of the cast iron pipe that tightens with a collar and from there, you can start of with pvc or abs to install your final drain pipe assembly.

There's a 4"square drain cover that you can instead of the round one that usually comes with the drains. it's a 1/4" think, it fits on standard drain assemblies and it prevents you from having to cut your tiles in a circle.

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 07:56 AM

Hi DIY... See how you do on posting pics. Using KISS' site. Then get back to us.

Here is one type of clamp you can use to transition from cast iron to PVC. The picture shows a normal no-hub clamp. Even better are PROFLEX or MISSION TYPE clamps... look very similar, but each side of rubber under clamp is made for the cast and the other side for PVC... can't hurt if you can find.

In my area we use a (2"no-hub x 2" pvc transition fitting) into a regular (2" no hub clamp).

Keep us posted.

DIY2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 11:31 AM

Here is a pic... finally! Hope this helps

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 01:51 PM

Hi DIY... hey... there is no "o-ring gasket" in that drain... I promise!

You said you pulled up on drain and it raised 2"... Did the pipe separate underneath.. Sounds like it. But maybe I misunderstood. That would be a bad thing.

Can you unscrew the strainer? Get a good look inside.. Is there a lead ring around the pipe... use a screwdriver and probe the RING...

That piece that the strainer connects into should unbolt or untwist... Again.. get strainer off and take a better look inside the drain.

Wait until Speedball sees this... he should recognize it and be able to offer better options.

See if you can post other pics. Thank you

DIY2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 05:15 PM

Thanks Masterplumber... hardheadness, if that is actually a word kicked in and I just cut the strainer out...

Yes when I tried to unscrew the strainer the entire drain twisted from the strainer all the way down the drain pipe into the slab. I can turn it by hand but I cannot lift it more than two inches. I am sure that is screwed at this point and I am going to have to get a professional.

I will look inside the drain for a lead ring...

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 06:11 PM

Yes... does not sound good.. *frown*. Let me know about lead ring... and that pipe is underground huh.. Stick a tape down and measure how far down. Let me know

DIY2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 06:57 PM

I do see a lead ring inside the drain between the two pieces.. Do I need to pull that ring out? I stuck a tape in the hole but I could only get about 4". I can see about 6".

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2008, 08:34 PM

If you want to disconnect this drain.. you will need to drill the lead ring out. If possible, determine a drill bit size that is slightly thinner than the lead ring width surrounding that pipe. Then using that drill bit... drill out the lead all the way 'round the lead ring. Below the lead ring (about 1 to 1.5 inches deep) is an oakum rope that you will need to remove after most of the lead has been drilled out (use a flat screwdriver or similar)... then drain should pop up/off the pipe.

However, I am still concerned about twist/lifting of pipe underground. You may need to remove drain and then dig down to that pipe underground (does not sound too far down)... let us know what you decide... or find.

brian1973 · Feb 24, 2008, 08:09 AM

Why don't you just break the slab around the drain, install a collar and start with new pvc pipes and then repour some concrete to fill the hole. It would prevent you from going through certain steps that have been described previously and you won't have any surprises once you've removed the whole assembly.