[Wangdoodle]

That is the problem with Christianity. It is so exclusive. Believe what I believe or you are out and hell bound. There is no room for independent thinking. That is what I was referring to when I said "MY God," the Holy Spirit that I believe is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and all that is good. I guess you could say that this song IS un-appropriate for a Christian Church since the Christian belief is one of a very narrow view. It equates their belief with fact for everyone.. I was raised as a Christian, have always been identified as a Christian but I really dislike any religious group to dictate my heart and tell me what I believe.

You may believe what you wish to believe. I am not judging anyone. However this song is not in-line with Christian doctrine and should not be used in worship. That's all I am saying.

[Allheart]

I thought about it a little more and although I do not believe the message is to do away with religion and to denounce heaven and hell, but just longing for peace, yes, I would have to agree should not be sung in a house of worship.

But I wouldn't be horrified if I heard.

Just wish that dream would come true. A world of peace and nothing to fight over.

[margarita_momma]

How many abused children are there in this world? How many missing? How many murdered? God didn't do this to these innocent children. Human nature did. God gives everyone a mind and lots of people can turn an ordinary mind into a very depraved mind. God didn't force them to look at and read about evil all day, but some people sure do it. And when their own depraved minds lead them to do the horrible things that they do to innocent children, then they will have to pay for their evils, if not in this world then in hell.

We have a choice of heaven or hell, plain and simple.

You're are right. People don't need a higher power to motivate them. They need the right higher power to motivate them. Jesus Christ. I remember, not too long ago, a loving group of people followed a higher power that they believed would lead them to perfection. Jim Jones.

I'm sorry that people don't want there to be a heaven, but I can understand it, because if they believed in heaven they would have to believe in hell.

I could never 'imagine'there was no heaven or hell. I know there is, and just choosing to say there isn't--won't change a thing.

So what you are saying is that human nature can only produce wrong doing and evil things but can't do good and loving things? Well that is where we see things differently. I believe everyone can choose to do right and wrong and we don't need a "higher power" to show us that because there is no higher power. I am not going to argue with you because are beliefs are black and white so let's just agree to disagree. :D

[NeedKarma]

I think that she is saying that if she didn't believe in Jesus Christ she would be murdering people and fornicating everyone in sight. So I guess it's better that she has her belief, kind of like Welbutrin for her.

[Donna Mae]

MM--I agree to disagree.

NK--Doesn't deserve a comment.

[cozyk]

I believe there IS a higher power. I do not think that you have to believe in that power to know the difference between right and wrong. Some wonderful caring benevolent people are atheist. Some horrible, cruel, hate mongers believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God. Who gets to heaven... the believer that has lived a selfish,damaging life, or the atheist that has been a positive contributor to mankind? Bible says you must believe to enter the gates of heaven. What's wrong with this picture?

[simoneaugie]

So, should this song, which expresses a longing for peace be played in a (Christian) church? The consensus seems to be no.

I said before, it is wrong to play a song like this in an establishment where intolerance and hate are taught.

We would be better off to stop arguing with one another and to begin questioning why we hold the beliefs that we do. Do they work?

[bushg]

Well I may be nuts, but I think it would be a perfect song for anywhere. Imagine no division in any area of life. Isn't that the message of churches PEACE, Unity and love. Now I could see people finding it offensive in church if he said imagine there are no Gods.YouTube - Imagine

[Allheart]

Here is the beautiful song that longs for peace and I do think God would be pleased with the message.

Bushg I was just thinking the same things as I watched the video... he isn't saying imagine
There isn't a God.

Enjoy the song and Simoneague is right... let's not agrue amongst ourselves - kind of goes against the very meaning of the song and what God would want for all of us.

But Simon - I don't think church teaches intolerance and hate - ( but I understand what you are saying)

[inthebox]

Lets really think about what the lyrics say and see if they are based on reality.


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

I think, whether you believe in God or not, Heaven is good and Hell is bad.
In other words, no good or bad, no right or wrong. Imagine people like Jeffrey Dahmer, Hitler, Stalin, Sadddam etc.. They did what they pleased, because there is no right or wrong, just living for today, no consequence. But wait, we have laws, so most of humanity makes a judgement of what is right and wrong. And even nonbelievers on this board would acknowledge there is right and wrong.

This is in opposition to what the Bible teaches. There is a right and wrong. There is heaven and hell. We should live for God and not ourselves.


Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do [ so back to tribalism and feuds? Ala Rwanda, Darfur etc... }
Nothing to kill or die for [ A life with no passion? Would you die for your children?]
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
[ Funny USSR and communist China banned religion, how many tens if not hundreds of millions died?]


Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world


Now this is a CHristian concept, and the only appropriate lyrics for "church"

Acts 2:
44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

And God is the source.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is this reality, Humans are the most intelligent species, yet we have the capacity to both annhialate ourselves senselessly, and the capacity to love.

Why can't some acknowledge, that humans, as a whole our flawed / fallen, and that God is the answer and not human imagination.

[NeedKarma]

Why can't some acknowledge, that humans, as a whole our flawed / fallen, and that God is the answer and not human imagination.

That will happen the same day that some will acknowledge that for many on this planet there is no requirement for a god to live a great life.

[Choux]

I am an atheist, and I love this song. One of the best ever written.

Lennon points out that religion is one of the most divisive institutions on earth... causing ill-feeling between neighbors and even hatred and wars. And what for? Imaginary entities that don't exist.

And so on...

I would be surprised to hear this song in a church!

[cozyk]

I am an atheist, and I love this song. One of the best ever written.

Lennon points out that religion is one of the most divisive institutions on earth....causing ill-feeling between neighbors and even hatred and wars. And what for? Imaginary entities that don't exist.

And so on....

I would be surprised to hear this song in a church!

That is exactly why I am not religious. I am spiritual though. I believe in an ultimate power, maybe because I believe in love and I feel that God is love. When I pray, I believe there is a listener and I get comfort from this. Religion, on the other hand is often a source of conflict. Each religion believes that their way is THE way. Who is to say? Your belief is your reality.

[Allheart]

Each religion believes that their way is THE way. Who is to say? Your belief is your reality.

That is a bit bizarre isn't it. We all worship God and yet think our religion is the one true religion.

I was raised Catholic and I am Catholic. The religion fits me beautifully - of course there are things that I quietly disagree with or just don't embarce I should say.

But I think all faiths that love God... Love God and not one faith is superior. That is my true belief.

[cozyk]

That is a bit bizarre isn't it. We all worship God and yet think our religion is the one true religion.

I was raised Catholic and I am Catholic. The religion fits me beautifully - of course there are things that I quietly disagree with or just don't embarce i should say.

But I think all faiths that love God.....Love God and not one faith is superior. That is my true beleif.

Funny, I hear that from every Catholic I know. That there are things they disagree with or don't embrace. How is that a perfect fit? Some of the more popular issues are birth control, divorce, and what is this fee you have to pay to get an annulment aka the "divorce loop-hole. " Why would you have to pay the church to get their blessing to marry again ?

I was brought up as a protestant but I really cringe at any one organization proclaiming what is right and wrong for me and how I should believe in something as personal as one's faith. Isn't this in a song... " Let your conscience be you guide." My conscience is very strict with me. Won't let me get away with anything. I think it has a direct line to God.

[Allheart]

LOL - I quess that did sound odd. What I meant was, that I am comfortable with my religion and I do love it, when I say it is a perfect fit for me, I say that so it is clear I am not saying my religion is the religion... it is one that I find peace with.

The only thing, that I find discomfort with is how they have a tendency to zero in on gay people. I haven't been to sermons where that was done, but I had heard they do.

As far as annullments. I used to say the same thing.. Why? Do you have to pay X amount of dollars to have your marriage washed away and if you do pay then it is thrown out?

Well, not necessary, my sister's was denied and should have been. Her request for an annulment.

The reason you need their permisson as in the eyes of the Catholic church you are married till death due you part anything outside of that is considered adultery. Just letting you know their views.

Which brings me to a little funny story. My parents were divorced and never did remarry.
But where my Dad lived as he got older... there were tons of women. There was this one lady who just like my Dad soooooooooo much... by this time my parents would have had to be divorced for over 20 years... a very long time. This women wanted my Dad to marry her. They were just friends and I have to say, she was very good to him. Helped him with calls for medince things like that, while we were at work.

Anyway, she wanted my Dad to marry him... and he really didn't care for her very much at all. She was very pushy. And my Dad didn't want to hurt her feelings... soooo
He told her.. "Suzy" I'm awful sorry, I can't marry you, in the eyes of the Catholic Church, I'm married already (as he wiped the sweat off his brow :).

So there are times that actually does come in handy;)

[simoneaugie]

Choosing who to make a life with a partner, and have children with is a personal choice. A religious organization that restricts making personal choices is teaching superiority isn't it? If I were to join the Catholic church and adhere to their rules, then I would be an OK person. As it is, they love me but want to draw me in, have me follow their rules. That is conditional love, isn't it? That is us and them.

I love them. Even the Muslims that really get a bad rap. But then, they teach hate. And why are the Christian nations making war on them? Hate, superiority and intolerance. Maybe religious folk don't realize that they teach intolerance and hate. Maybe, they don't know what love is?

Love is not about forgiveness, it is the embodiment of acceptance. True love sees nothing to forgive. That was the message of Jesus, and the message of so many others who's words have been twisted into control of the masses. "Love one another," "Your care for others is the measure of your worth." They could not twist those words very well. Got to give them kudos for really trying though.

Then, along comes John Lennon and he says it again. And here we are arguing when we could be doing what we do best, changing.

[Allheart]

Boy that's depressing Simoneague and I can see how one would feel that way. The Catholic church welcomes all to the service and you don't have to be catholic, ever, you just could not particapte in communion. And not because we are better, because there is some schooling and teaching about holy communion and you would have to make the sacrement of holy communion. But you could always attend services and you would see that they spend 99% of their time, making sure we are in line with God's will. Keeping us on the right path. There is never an us versus them. Honest.

The services are always about reminding us how important it is to love God and stay in his will. I never feel better then anyone outside the church doors, ever.

I don't think Catholics ever are ones to speak about being better, and you have to be Catholic otherwise...

Did you ever hear of Catholic guilt? We are so busy feeling guilty about everything that I feel even to look into another's house, would be a sin, because it is judging, and that is not our role.

As far as Muslims - I don't think true Muslims teach hate, just the opposite.

[HarajukuGirl]

Great points your all bringing up...
But you know...

It is a bit stupid to pay so much money if you want to get married in a Christian/Cathloic church.

900 dollars to get married at church? That's over the top

[Wangdoodle]

Great points your all bringing up...
But you know...

It is a bit stupid to pay so much money if you want to get married in a Christian/Cathloic church.

900 dollars to get married at church? Thats over the top

I had a Catholic wedding and didn't have to pay anything. We gave some money, but then a priest should be given something for his service.