[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Where did god come from? Nothing from nothing is nothing remember and as far as im concerned if god was to exist (which i am convinced he doesnt) then where did he come from. He had to come from something too as far as my logic works.

Your logic doesnt work as far as i'm concerned.

Im sure some other atheists who are better versed than me at arguing their point will come along and give you even better reasons. Nice try though!

Your' logic doesn't work either. Nothing is something and something is nothing. If God didn't exsist, then something had to have created us? You can't always believe in the ape theory because, who made them? Who made the tiny organisms? The cells? SOMEONE HAD TO OF!

I choose to have faith because I do not believe that we popped here. Then someone would have created the 'pop' effect as well.

[ineedhelpfast]

I'm talking to Capuchin and it seems like he's open could you keep him in your prayers

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Close but way off. :) Actually the singularity that started the big bang had always been there. Now we have this wonderful expanding universe.

Next question?

Someone had to have created the big bang!

[Synnen]

Someone had to have created the big bang!

Why?

We know from physics that nothing is ever destroyed--matter becomes energy, and energy becomes matter.

So why couldn't it have just been energy exploding into matter?

And if GOD can always be around, why couldn't energy?

[Allheart]

im talking to Capuchin and it seems like hes open could you keep him in your prayers

Oh I love Cap... and yes of course I will keep him in my prayers. He's a wonderful wonderful guy!

[Allheart]

Why?

We know from physics that nothing is ever destroyed--matter becomes energy, and energy becomes matter.

So why couldn't it have just been energy exploding into matter?

And if GOD can always be around, why couldn't energy?

Hi Synn hun,

I hope you know I am not ignoring you... and that I love you and miss you... it's just I don't know the answers to your questions. I don't know too much about about this big banging thing :o

Love you

[Synnen]

Allheart, I love you too, and you're always in my prayers.

If we pray for each other to multiple deities, it can't hurt, right?

Of course, to me this is just one of those things where I'm trying to get people to look at their logic.

Plus, I hate when people try to convert me.

I'm not ignoring you either--I have faith that YOU have faith. Same goes for so many others.

As long as you accept that I'm happy in my faith, and others in their lack of faith, I'm happy that you have your faith (and honey--you're always tolerant).

I just hate it when people tell me what I believe is "wrong"--when they can't PROVE that what they believe is "right". If they can't prove it to me, I'm just as right in what I believe as they are.

Which, I believe, is what most atheists believe too. They (and I) don't care that YOU (the collective you, Allheart, honey--not directing ALL of this at you!) believe in your God, as long as you let us believe in whatever we do or don't want to.

[wewed100606]

Bravo to Synnen!

I think you touched on a very pertinent point here.

Something as spiritual and personal as your beliefs in your and everybody else's origin and ultimate resting place cannot be forced upon someone.

Faith has to come from within, whether your argument for it makes sense or not. It has to be a choice, not medicine forced down your throat, because then it is tainted.

This is what makes our country so amazing, we can all say what we want about the most serious of topics and not worry about being burned at the stake.

God(s) bless our forefathers and their amazing Constitution!

[Allheart]

Allheart, I love you too, and you're always in my prayers.

If we pray for each other to multiple deities, it can't hurt, right?

Of course, to me this is just one of those things where I'm trying to get people to look at their logic.

Plus, I hate when people try to convert me.

I'm not ignoring you either--I have faith that YOU have faith. Same goes for so many others.

As long as you accept that I'm happy in my faith, and others in their lack of faith, I'm happy that you have your faith (and honey--you're always tolerant).

I just hate it when people tell me what I believe is "wrong"--when they can't PROVE that what they believe is "right". If they can't prove it to me, I'm just as right in what I believe as they are.

Which, I believe, is what most atheists believe too. They (and I) don't care that YOU (the collective you, Allheart, honey--not directing ALL of this at you!) believe in your God, as long as you let us believe in whatever we do or don't want to.

You are 100% right in all that you say Synn and I hope you and everyone does know that I would never want to force my views or beliefs on anyone and happy for whatever anyone carries in their heart. To want to force anything on anyone, is just not right.. period.

And there is no letting of anything. We freely believe and love God, why should those, who do not have to apologize or not be able to feel that same freedom.

Do I want people to share my views? NO, not at all. I want them to have their very own views to be and feel loved. I am not sure what my obligation is in reference to sharing God's love to be honest, but share is the oppertive word not force.

God loves all of us and hurts when we hurt each other. He would embrace a non-believer just as he would a beleiver.

But if there are people who don't believe, who am I to judge, condemn or force or say my way is the right way.

We all are brothers and sisters in this world and it is the differenes as well as the similarites that make us grow and learn.

From my heart, I would never want and hope I never have forced my faith on anyone.

May love always surround one and all.

[Capuchin]

Your' logic doesn't work either. Nothing is something and something is nothing. If God didn't exsist, then something had to have created us? You can't always believe in the ape theory because, who made them? Who made the tiny organisms? The cells? SOMEONE HAD TO OF!

I choose to have faith because I do not believe that we popped here. Then someone would have created the 'pop' effect as well.

"The ape theory"? Ahaahhahahahhahahhahahha. That is all.

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

Think about it... if a tiger and a lion mate, the offspring is not a lion and it is not a tiger.

Nope, that's a Liger, and I have it on good authority it's bred for its skills in magic! :)

(Napoleon Dynamite told me so!)

[Capuchin]

Nope, that's a Liger, and I have it on good authority it's bred for its skills in magic! :)

Don't forget the often overlooked Tigon :(

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

Don't forget the often overlooked Tigon :(

They're rubbish, no magic skills to speak of at all! :p

[Galveston1]

How about because I don't believe in your god, and don't want it forced on my children?

You say teaching intelligent design is teaching religion. I say teaching evolution is teaching religion. I don't want it forced on my grandchildren. There is at least as much evidence to support intelligent design as there is to support evolution as a first cause. How about this? Just give the kids the facts as to what is, and not the why. Your religion has no more place in the classroom than anyone else's.

[Synnen]

MY religion isn't in the classroom.

As a matter of fact, most people have never HEARD of my religion, and the majority of those who have heard of it have HUGE misconceptions about it (eye of newt and tongue of bat and all that).

Do I believe that evolution is how everything started? Not necessarily. Do I think that evolution HAPPENS? Yes. Mutations are a form of evolution, and they happen ALL the time. Or would you deny that a virus evolves to adapt to the medications used to fight it? If you're denying THAT--why is there no cure for AIDS? Or the common cold?

I absolutely do NOT believe that tripe about everything ever imagined being created in 7 days. I don't think the Bible is anything other than a history of a people and a possible moral guideline. Christianity is a RELIGION. Evolution is SCIENCE.

The difference between the two is that one is accepted by many different people of many different religions, and the other is generally a Christian thing.

I'm so SICK of Christians trying to shove their religion down everyone else's throat because they're so SURE that they're the only ones that could POSSIBLY be right. Well guess what? Christians once believed the world to be flat, too. Amazing how they bounced back from THAT one.

My religion is just as "right" as yours, only mine is more tolerant and doesn't seek to force everyone to believe the way I do, like yours does.

THAT is why I don't want Christian theories and tenets (like intelligent design) taught in public schools. Christianity in general has a poor track record of being tolerant of any beliefs but their own, and I absolutely do NOT want my children taught intolerance and egoism of that level.

[oneguyinohio]

Hey Synnen, I'd give you an agree, but it's not visible for me right now? Anyway, I liked your post!

[Allheart]

[QUOTE=Synnen]
I'm so SICK of Christians trying to shove their religion down everyone else's throat because they're so SURE that they're the only ones that could POSSIBLY be right. ]

As in any group, you have those that give a group a very bad name. Not all of those who believe in Christ fit into the negative sterotype.

Bad apples exsist in every bunch.

[Capuchin]

There is at least as much evidence to support intelligent design as there is to support evolution as a first cause.

This is where you are wrong: Evolution does not say ANYTHING about a first cause. Please learn more about the theory you are so opposed to. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[Synnen]

[QUOTE=Allheart]

I'm so SICK of Christians trying to shove their religion down everyone else's throat because they're so SURE that they're the only ones that could POSSIBLY be right. ]

As in any group, you have those that give a group a very bad name. Not all of those who believe in Christ fit into the negative sterotype.

Bad apples exsist in every bunch.

Oh, Allheart--you're right.

I've met several good Christians over the years, They were never pushy, never demanding, and accepted that my religion was as important to me as theirs was to them. They LIVED as Christians, not just said they were Christian and then tried to convert me. Forgiveness and tolerance were very much a part of their day-to-day lives, and frankly, they were some of the happiest people I ever knew.

[inthebox]

Why does religion spread in places like China and Africa, but demise in flourishing areas like Europe? Is that a real question?

I'll bet that if the missionaries preached that God is responsible for why you and your family have suffered so much and why you are all dying from AIDS they wouldn't be converting. Religion prays on the people who need hope. Case and point. Along with the fact that you have welfare families giving dollars in collection plates to preachers who wear Rolex watches and drive Benzos. People in developed nations have began to realize that they are responsible for there own destiny. They don't need to pray to some abstract being in the sky to come down and help them. Like I said "Organized religion is a crutch for weak minded people."

And just for everyone out there, notice I said organized religion, not religion in general. I do not have a problem with people having their own belief systems and doing what they please. It is when they organize under false pretences to further their agendas and get rich. The church, is stupid, religion is not. It serves a purpose and helps people through hard times.

Here is a question for all you BELIEVERS out there: Why do people "thank god" when something goes right or something amazing happens, but if something bad happens no one flips him the bird?

Read some of the psalms 6,10, 44 for example. The book of Job.

If you read through the entire Bible, suffering is to be expected and is a fact of life.
There is no direct correlalation between "goodness" and lack of suffering and "wicked" and suffering , in this lifetime. Non believers can see this. For believers, there is hope and joy in this life, because of God, no matter the circumstance. 1 Thess 5:16. Our rewards are in Heaven for all eternity.


Personally, I'll give you an example: 21 years ago I was waiting to get accepted to a professional school. I had average qualifications to be accepted according to prior years.
I applied to 13 schools eat of the Mississippi River. Most of my qualified peeres got their acceptance in the Spring. I did not, I got a job after I got by Bachelors. At lunch I would go to a local Catholic church, it was generally empty at that time, and prayed. I never got an answer, and I did question God, "why" "please" etc. It was not till 1 month before school started that I received an acceptance, and later that week , I received 2 more acceptances. - I suffered waiting, it would have been an easier summer knowing what the future held. But God did answer my prayers, and it was that more joyous. And yes, all praise to the Lord.


But you never really answered the question of why Christianity spreads in the most oppressive places?


My answer:

These people already know of suffering - without God, at the hands of their fellow human beings. The Gospel says, come as you are, because we are all sinners. These people, whether the lowest castes in India, or refugees, are already humbled by their circumstances. These are the poor in spirit. They see misionaries that help them - they chose to leave their comfortable first world lives - accept them, tell them that God accepts them and loves them. God gives them hope through His believers.

Now here in the US and Europe - we have it comfortable, we rely on self, we are materialistic, and full of pride in self - it is hard to hear the Gospel message and admit that we are evil in the sight of a perfect and holy God. You see examples of that denial here on this thread. We are the rich man walking away when told to sell all that we have to follow Christ.



While the church is not perfect and committed atrocities in its history, why don't the anti - religious admit to the good that organized religion does?

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