[dlochart]

The existing basement roughins for the toilet and sink were made VERY close together. From what I have seen in the rest of my home and other homes the drain pipe for the sink usually goes into the wall after the P trap off the sink drain. In order to maintain enogh space between the toilet and the sink I desire to leave the drain directly under the sink. The positioning in the bathroom is better this way.

I know I need a P trap coming off the sink. Then I'll need a way to get to the drain and at the same time be able to vent the pipe into the wall.

(forgive the crude attempt at drawing with the keyboard)

<sink basin >
== (where drain connects to PVC that goes to the P trap)
| ( PVC )
--u (P trap )
| (PVC off the P trap)
v==| (place were vent pipe goes into the wall )
| (PVC)
=== (floor drain pipe)

What are my options from the point where the (PVC off the P trap) down to the floor drain. I'll have about 24 inches between sink drain and floor drain. I'll have to angle back towards the floor drain from the P trap and off this angle I'll have to have another angle for the vent pipe.

One option I thought of would be to move the sink basin out so that the pipe coming off the P trap could go straight down to the floor without having to slant. I would lose some space but I can live with that.

Thanks !

Doug

If what I would like to attempt to do is ludicris what other options would you suggest?

[dlochart]

Oops, I forgot that HTML will gobble up spaces. The picture I attempted to draw came out not spaced properly.

Doug

[speedball1]

Hi Doug,

Just lay it out for me in English. The term, "Floor drain pipe" bothers me. Do you plan to drain your lavatory into a floor drain? Also please explain on a little more detail your plans to vent the lavatory. Why can't you just open up the wall and arm out the existing lavatory drain and stub out away from the toilet. There IS a vent on the lavatory rough in isn't there? What am I missing here? If you have a lavatory rough in already there then why in the world are you using a convoluted fitting arrangement to drain ot in a floor drain? Time for you to educate me. Regards, Tom

[dlochart]

Tom, Maybe I should take a picture and post it. In the basement (concrete slab) there is a toilet rough-in (capped, the diameter of the cap is 4inches) and about 3' diagonally from the toilet drain pipe is another roughed in drain pipe (it is capped and its diameter is about 2 1/2 inches).

There is a 3 inch pvc pipe running up from the wall along the wall behind the toilet roughin and through the ceiling. This should be the vent pipe for the toilet roughin.

All townhomes in our development were fit with 2 baths and unless you picked the finished basement option you were roughed in for a basement 1/2 bath. The person I bought the townhome told me it was roughed in for a toilet and lavatory sink. Ok, I admit I am assuming (yes that word again) he was telling the truth. So since the toilet was roughed in to the concrete how could it not be vented by the vent pipe next to it? I guess anything is possible but they have to adhere to codes too when they build these things.

Let me change my question to you then. Given what I have told you what else in the world could the 2 drain pipes be? I plan to dig in my paperwork for the plans to the house. I believe I saw a chematic for the plumbing in there when I bought the house.

Other than the schematics, how do I find what these pipes are for and if they are vented already without digging up the basement floor? If I were to bring in a plumber to get an estimate on running pipes would he/she be able to tell just by looking at it?

Thanks Tom, sorry I don't mean to sound like a hard head =)

[PalmMP3]

Tom, Maybe I should take a picture and post it.

You DEFINITELY should, if possible - experience has shown that pictures can be the difference between us being able to help, or just wandering around in confused circles of questions.

Whoever said "a picture is worth a thousand words" was NOT kidding. ;)

about 3' diagonally from the toilet drain pipe is another roughed in drain pipe (it is capped and its diameter is about 2 1/2 inches).

Strange... that sounds more like a shower drain than a sink drain.

If I were to bring in a plumber to get an estimate on running pipes would he/she be able to tell just by looking at it?

How about giving us a chance first? Post a picture, and we'll see if we can save you the expense of a plumber.

Oh, and by the way, something sounds a little fishy here. From your first post:

One option I thought of would be to move the sink basin out so that the pipe coming off the P trap could go straight down to the floor without having to slant. I would lose some space but I can live with that.

I hope you're aware that drain pipes may NOT go vertical after the trap UNTIL THEY ARE VENTED. Meaning, unless you've installed the vent in the middle of the horizontal run (by cutting in an upward-pointing tee for a vent), the first drop after a p-trap must not be an elbow, but rater a tee or wye - one end going down as a drain, and the other going upwards (or diagonally) as a vent.

From the way you phrased your statement, it sounds like you're going vertical without a vent. I hope I'm just reading it wrong...

Cheers,
Moishe

[PalmMP3]

By the way, here's a little hint for doing WYSIWYG art (that's the official name for what you we're trying to do in your first post, making pictures using letters and symbols). To stop the HTML parsing from messing you up, use the [code] tags. Here's an example (a choo-choo train):

This:
[code]
8 ___
|| [ ]
/== O O O
[/code]

produces this:

  8   ___
  || [   ]
/==  O O O

Got it now? ;)

Cheers,
Moishe

[dlochart]

Moishe, thanks! I tried using "pre" tags in my post (not "code" tags) and that did not work, thanks for the tip. When I get back from church this morning I'll take a pic and post it. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Strange... that sounds more like a shower drain than a sink drain.

[dlochart]

Arrgghh I lost my response. I'll post a pic and answers after I get back

Thanks in advance.

Doug

[dlochart]

Here is what the situation looks like. This is my first time attaching a pic in this forum. I did a preview and the pic did not show although it says I have an attachement.

Anyway in the upper left is my main waste pipe with a cleanout. To the right is what I strongly believe is a vent pipe for both roughed-in drain pipes in the floor. The one on the right I believe is for the toilet and the one on the left is what I though was for a lavatory sink. Anyway this is what I have to work with. I am still in the process of redoing the framing. When I bought the house a half-a$$ attempt at finishing the basement had been started. I have redone most of it and I am starting in the bath room area now.

And yes I will be creating an access panel for the cleanout =)

[speedball1]

Hi Doug, The pictures explain it all. I still don't see where you came up with "Floor drain pipe" I'll never understand since I don't see a floor drain in your photo. What I see is a toilet stub-up and a raiser to pick up a shower plus a lavatory drain that vents the entire group. Why the tee and stub-out was cut out of the lavatory drain/vent and a coupling glued in I'll never know, but a drainage tee and stub out should be installed 18" to center of the tee off the floor line.The shower enclosure would set on the wall in front of the pedestal lavatory Good luck Tom

[dlochart]

Tom,
Forgive my lack of plumbing vocabulary. To me the stub-ups I called floor drain pipe's (as that is what the water does right =) But now I see where it would cause confusion.

What I see is a toilet stub-up and a raiser to pick up a shower plus a lavatory drain that vents the entire group.

May I ask a little more clariifcation on what you see? From the picture I see the toilet stub up on the right correct? The capped pipe in the floor on the left at the bottom of the pic is the raiser right? Is this where I can attach the sink drain too? ( I will not be doing a tub or shower ).

Why the tee and stub-out was cut out of the lavatory drain/vent and a coupling glued in I'll never know,

I don't understand which one you are talking about here, could you please elaborate.

Thanks again.

Doug

[speedball1]

Tom,
Forgive my lack of plumbing vocabulary. To me the stub-ups I called floor drain pipe's (as that is what the water does right =) But now I see where it would cause confusion.



May I ask a litttle more clariifcation on what you see? From the picture I see the toilet stub up on the right correct? The capped pipe in the floor on the left at the bottom of the pic is the raiser right? Is this where I can attach the sink drain too? ( I will not be doing a tub or shower ).


I don't understand which one you are talking about here, could you please elaborate.

Thanks again.

Doug

Hey Doug, I'm begaining to understand your first post in which you refer to a floor drain. That [pipe in the floor isn't for the lavatory drain, it's for a shower. The lavatory drain is the vertical pipe with a coupling where the stubout for the lavatory should be. This pipe not only drains the lavatory but also vents the group. If you aren't planing a shower you will have to cut the shower raiser off below the floor, cap it off and float a cement patch over it.
To pick up the pedestal lav you will have to figure exactly where you wish it placed and then position the stup-out exactly in the center to pick up the trap. To do this you will need a 2X1 1/2"drainage tee and if you have to arm out to where you want the lav to set then you'll also need a 1 1/2" elbo.
Sorry for the confusion. Regards, Tom

[dlochart]

If I do decide to arm it out about 2- 3 ft wouldn't I need to take that into account so that the arm would angle slightly down to the drainage tee? I know that gravity and air are the main components to a drainage system. How much of a grade do I need per foot of pipe? Doug

[PalmMP3]

How much of a grade do I need per foot of pipe? Doug

1/4" per foot. In extreme cases, you can get away with up to 1/8" per foot.

Cheers,
Moishe

[dlochart]

Moishe, I like your signature...

--
Linux is my Anti-Virus !

[PalmMP3]

Moishe, I like your signature ...

Thank you ;)

[speedball1]

If I do decide to arm it out about 2- 3 ft wouldn't I need to take that into account so that the arm would angle slightly down to the drainage tee? I know that gravity and air are the main components to a drainage system. How much of a grade do I need per foot of pipe? Doug

With a lateral,(arm) that short, fall doesn't make that much difference, as long as it isn't backfall. The drain rate is increased by the velocity the water picks up on the fall from the drain to the trap. However Moshie is bang on about the slope amounts.
Regards, tom