[needtoaskaquestion10]

Hello,
My son violated his probation by testing positive for alcohol .024 and .021%. His probation began in May 2007 and his violation occurred in January 2008. This is his second DUI and he is only 18. The first was as a juvenile and he did about the same thing, tested positive for pot with only 2 months left on that probation term. We went to court and his probation officer did a great job of convincing the judge he was a good kid and just messed up.

Well, this time as an adult I do not think his probation officer will do the same thing. He has met all other requirements of probation - counseling, ankle bracelet, probation meetings... Here are my questions:

1) What is expected of a probation officer at a hearing?
2) What could I do (as his mother) if I am sitting there in court and his probation officer doesn't give any of his positives? Can I ask to speak at the hearing?

Some other background information - my son is a full time college student, lives at home, doesn't have a driver's license and probably won't for along time, and he doesn't have a job.

[N0help4u]

2. Being his mother they won't take anything you say in support of him with much more than a grain of salt since they see you as biased. They can ask you questions that you might rather not answer because it could do more harm to his case.
His lawyer would be the one to ask if it would be good or not in his situation.

Hostile witness
n. technically an "adverse witness" in a trial who is found by the judge to be hostile (adverse) to the position of the party whose attorney is questioning the witness, even though the attorney called the witness to testify on behalf of his/her client. When the attorney calling the witness finds that the answers are contrary to the legal position of his/her client or the witness becomes openly antagonistic, the attorney may request the judge to declare the witness to be "hostile" or "adverse." If the judge declares the witness to be hostile (i.e. adverse), the attorney may ask "leading" questions which suggest answers or are challenging to the testimony just as on cross examination of a witness who has testified for the opposition.

[excon]

Hello need:

So, I gather you want to keep him out of jail. I suppose if he were my kid, I'd want to also.

But, he's NOT my kid... MY kids drive on those roads that YOUR kid is driving drunk on. If he got caught twice, he did it hundreds of times. He was already told not to drink and drive by the courts on more than one occasion. He didn't listen then. Why would you think he's going to listen now? And, it's not like these DWI's happened over a period of years. Nahhh. We're talking MONTHS.

Don't you have other children?? Do you have sisters? Do they drive?

As you may gather from my name, I'm loath to put someone in the slam. But, I think a little jail time might be just what the doctor ordered.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Hello,
My son violated his probation by testing positive for alcohol .024 and .021%. His probation began in May 2007 and his violation occurred in January 2008. This is his second DUI and he is only 18. The first was as a juvenile and he did about the same thing, tested positive for pot with only 2 months left on that probation term. We went to court and his probation officer did a great job of convincing the judge he was a good kid and just messed up.

Well, this time as an adult I do not think his probation officer will do the same thing. He has met all other requirements of probation - counseling, ankle bracelet, probation meetings.... Here are my questions:

1) What is expected of a probation officer at a hearing?
2) What could I do (as his mother) if I am sitting there in court and his probation officer doesn't give any of his positives? Can I ask to speak at the hearing?

Some other background information - my son is a full time college student, lives at home, doesn't have a driver's license and probably won't for along time, and he doesn't have a job.

A 24 and 21 are scary - with a 3 (and that's not too many more drinks, depending on his size) he would have probably been unconscious!

I know you would like to help him as his mother - what do you think you could say that would be positive in his favor? Sounds like he's had other chances and thrown them away.

Wow - a rough one. I don't know when tough love kicks in. Have you thought about alcoholism counselling for him? (I would also be signing the words to "Get a Job." Who is paying for the Attorney; who is paying the fines? You I would guess. Make him get responsible.)

I know - easier said than done.

[excon]

Hello again, need:

You didn't come here to be yelled at. You're not the drinker. I apologise.

At the hearing, the PO's job is to present the facts. You won't be able to speak at that point. Once the violation HAS been established, the judge MAY ask the PO for a recommendation. Who knows what the PO might say? However, I doubt he's going to fight for your sons freedom.

You may be allowed to address the judge at that point, or you may not. You have no right to be heard. However, even if you are, it's probably not going to make much difference.

excon

[needtoaskaquestion10]

Wow, not what I expected from this forum... Thanks for the bashing...

First off - the reason I wanted to speak to the judge is to say I don't think what they are doing is working - obviously. The only one suffering in all of this is me. I have to get off work early to take him to blow or drop, to take him to his probation appointments, pay his court fines. We did not get him out jail the second time he was caught, we left him there. So, he has done jail time and that was going to be my proposal to the judge. I don't think he has suffered enough. I went to bed at 11pm and got up at 5am the day he tested positive. I routinely check our house, the yard, the garage, the trees, the toilet tank... for anything. Somehow he got access to the alcohol. The underlying issue has not been resolved. I have yet to find a counselor or program, alcohol related, that I believe works - for him.

Yes I have two other children. My daughter is getting an academic and sports scholarship to college for Fall 2008, and the youngest is in 9th grade - he's already learned more from the DUI of his brother than his brother has.

AND... To correct the person who responded with the 24 and 21 saying how bad it was - this was .024 and .021 - the illegal limit starts at .02 for anyone under 21, from what I understand. His first DUI was a .81. He cannot and will not anytime soon be able to drive (legally) as he has many unpaid fines from the secretary of state and too many points.

The original questions surrounding the probation officer started because I had to take him to a probabtion appointment today - 15 miles away, 45 miles from my work- miss work - only to have the PO ask if he got the letter about the court date for the probation violation. He didn't even talk to my son, asked him this out in the waiting area. My son called him yesterday - why didn't he cancel the appointment? This got me wondering exactly what would he say in court? And... what exactly is his role? Only to monitor the test results? Our taxes our paying for this?

We don't live near a bus line, there are no sidewalks, and limited taxi service. It is very hard for my son to get a job without - and here I go again whining - me being invovled. The first question they ask during an interview is DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN TRANSPORTATION. I get him odd jobs when I can with his uncle. The problem is - if he has to blow or drop that day then I have to get him from there and take him all the way to the testing center by 4:30pm - this can be a 150 mile one way trip - he couldn't afford to pay for my gas!

[twinkiedooter]

Mom, it looks like if they don't put sonny in jail to wake up you're going to go on being an enabler to his actions.

If he is a full time college student I guess you're footing the bill. I'm hesitant to ask what his major is as it could possibly be something dandy like "perpetual college student". Why are you rewarding him with a college education? Sounds like you are throwing your money away with both hands as fast as you can. College should be for someone who deserves it and has shown they are mature enough to appreciate it. Sounds also like he gets his booze from his college buddies. Ever think of that? The good booze fairy probably has their own car and can drive to see sonny anytime they wish at 2AM.

He needs some hotel grey bar time if you ask me (something more than just a week or so). The he's just a good kid who messed up is just a cop out. He is not a good kid or he would have straightened out by now.

Hiding of alcohol is a serious problem. Face it. He's a full blown alcoholic who needs help fast. You need to go to a few AlAnon meetings to see just what's going on inside his head to fully understand him. Right now you are an enabler. You need to change YOU before you can change him. What good is it for him to have a job when you have to chauffer him around? Makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why bother with a job?

You never really mentioned dad but said "we didn't get him" so I guess there is no dad in this picture. If there was a dad, what does dad have to say about your kid?

The PO sounds like he's catching on to your son's shenanagans. I doubt if he's going to be mouthing the words "he's a good kid" to the judge this time around. He probably has quite a caseload of people he has to supervise and he does more than just monitor test results also. They like to help people and give them a second chance as a rule, but when they can see for themselves their help is being abused, they are probably going to recommend jail time to the judge.

If you indeed think that jail time for sonny would be appropriate at this time, you can write the judge a letter telling him why you feel more probation is not working and that jail time would be better for him. You can carbon copy the PO as well so he knows your thoughts on this as well. The judge may not be able to give him jail time if there is no room available at the jail at this time (which can happen). A letter is read by the judge or his judicial assistant and letters are taken quite seriously by the court.

[JudyKayTee]

Wow, not what I expected from this forum...Thanks for the bashing....

First off - the reason I wanted to speak to the judge is to say I don't think what they are doing is working - obviously. The only one suffering in all of this is me. I have to get off work early to take him to blow or drop, to take him to his probation appointments, pay his court fines. We did not get him out jail the second time he was caught, we left him there. So, he has done jail time and that was going to be my proposal to the judge. I don't think he has suffered enough. I went to bed at 11pm and got up at 5am the day he tested positive. I routinely check our house, the yard, the garage, the trees, the toilet tank....for anything. Somehow he got access to the alcohol. The underlying issue has not been resolved. I have yet to find a counselor or program, alcohol related, that I believe works - for him.

Yes I have two other children. My daughter is getting an academic and sports scholarship to college for Fall 2008, and the youngest is in 9th grade - he's already learned more from the DUI of his brother than his brother has.

AND...To correct the person who responded with the 24 and 21 saying how bad it was - this was .024 and .021 - the illegal limit starts at .02 for anyone under 21, from what I understand. His first DUI was a .81. He cannot and will not anytime soon be able to drive (legally) as he has many unpaid fines from the secretary of state and too many points.

The original questions surrounding the probation officer started because I had to take him to a probabtion appointment today - 15 miles away, 45 miles from my work- miss work - only to have the PO ask if he got the letter about the court date for the probation violation. He didn't even talk to my son, asked him this out in the waiting area. My son called him yesterday - why didn't he cancel the appointment? This got me wondering exactly what would he say in court? And...what exactly is his role? Only to monitor the test results? Our taxes our paying for this?

We don't live near a bus line, there are no sidewalks, and limited taxi service. It is very hard for my son to get a job without - and here I go again whining - me being invovled. The first question they ask during an interview is DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN TRANSPORTATION. I get him odd jobs when I can with his uncle. The problem is - if he has to blow or drop that day then I have to get him from there and take him all the way to the testing center by 4:30pm - this can be a 150 mile one way trip - he couldn't afford to pay for my gas!

'

Hmm - first, I'm "the one" who posted about the 2.1 and 2.4 - I thought you made a mistake when you typed it. My mistake and my apology. I am not aware of a State where the DUI/DWI laws are different depending on your age. What State are you in? In NYS DUI/DWI limits are the same no matter WHAT your age - the underage drinking charge is then added on. Don't understand that part -

That being said - no, you're not whining. You are obviously the one being inconvenienced but until you figure out a way HE will be inconvenienced things will remain the same. So (trying to remember how old he is) emancipate him or just plain throw him out. Tough love - and I know it's easier to say than do. You get him odd jobs with his uncle - well, maybe HE should worry about working. And if he's ordered to get to a testing center and has no transportation, well, jail isn't fun but it will keep him away from alcohol.

So he finds a job where there's transportation.

I think you have to do something to get him out of your house before he destroys your family. Your whole post is about how you are inconvenienced, you are finding employment for him, you are driving him, you are looking for counselling.

Again - sorry I misunderstood and nobody is jumping on you. I only answer based on what I read here. I don't know you, I don't know him, nothing personal.

If he had, say, cancer as a health issue instead of (possibly) alcoholism - would you be wondering what to do next or would you take a firm stand and find a way to get him treatment?

[JudyKayTee]

Mom, it looks like if they don't put sonny in jail to wake up you're going to go on being an enabler to his actions.

If he is a full time college student I guess you're footing the bill. I'm hesitant to ask what his major is as it could possibly be something dandy like "perpetual college student".

He needs some hotel grey bar time if you ask me (something more than just a week or so). The he's just a good kid who messed up is just a cop out. He is not a good kid or he would have straightened out by now.

Hiding of alcohol is a serious problem. Face it. He's a full blown alcoholic who needs help fast. You need to go to a few AlAnon meetings to see just what's going on inside his head to fully understand him. Right now you are an enabler. You need to change YOU before you can change him. What good is it for him to have a job when you have to chauffer him around? Makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why bother with a job?

You never mentioned dad so I guess there is no dad in this picture.

The PO sounds like he's catching on to your son's shenanagans. He probably has quite a caseload of people he has to supervise and he does more than just monitor test results also.

I don't think guessing about the situation (he's a full blown alcoholic; there is no Dad in the picture; he's not a good kid) is helpful.

If he IS an alcoholic (and I don't know if he is) or, for that matter, if he is alcohol dependent he's not a bad kid - he's a person with a health issue.

I have absolutely no love for drunk drivers; absolutely no love at all. Almost everybody has had his/her life touched by the misuse of alcohol. However, I do believe in a lot of cases it's a dependency problem and it's like flipping a switch to turn it off.

CLUNK! Falling off my pedestal.

[needtoaskaquestion10]

'

Hmm - first, I'm "the one" who posted about the 2.1 and 2.4 - I thought you made a mistake when you typed it. My mistake and my apology. I am not aware of a State where the DUI/DWI laws are different depending on your age. What State are you in? In NYS DUI/DWI limits are the same no matter WHAT your age - the underage drinking charge is then added on. Don't understand that part -

That being said - no, you're not whining. You are obviously the one being inconvenienced but until you figure out a way HE will be inconvenienced things will remain the same. So (trying to remember how old he is) emancipate him or just plain throw him out. Tough love - and I know it's easier to say than do. You get him odd jobs with his uncle - well, maybe HE should worry about working. And if he's ordered to get to a testing center and has no transportation, well, jail isn't fun but it will keep him away from alcohol.

So he finds a job where there's transportation.

I think you have to do something to get him out of your house before he destroys your family. Your whole post is about how you are inconvenienced, you are finding employment for him, you are driving him, you are looking for counselling.

Again - sorry I misunderstood and nobody is jumping on you. I only answer based on what I read here. I don't know you, I don't know him, nothing personal.

If he had, say, cancer as a health issue instead of (possibly) alcoholism - would you be wondering what to do next or would you take a firm stand and find a way to get him treatment?

Actually made a mistake on the second response he had a .08 not .8, think he would be dead at a .8. We're in Michigan and the law states: Zero BAC laws reduced the allowable blood alcohol concen­tration (BAC) for teenaged drivers to 0.02 or lower. I think it gives provision for a small amount of alcohol for things like religious rituals.

Thanks for the analogy to the disease. Makes sense. When he was originally evaluated they indicated that he did not need intensive in-house treatment, they put him in a 3x's a week 4 hour program. Maybe I can use what just happened to get him in a residential program and do as the other post indicated - write the judge a letter. Thanks.

[JudyKayTee]

Actually made a mistake on the second response he had a .08 not .8, think he would be dead at a .8. We're in Michigan and the law states: Zero BAC laws reduced the allowable blood alcohol concen­tration (BAC) for teenaged drivers to 0.02 or lower. I think it gives provision for a small amount of alcohol for things like religious rituals.

Thanks for the analogy to the disease. Makes sense. When he was originally evaluated they indicated that he did not need intensive in-house treatment, they put him in a 3x's a week 4 hour program. Maybe I can use what just happened to get him in a residental program and do as the other post indicated - write the judge a letter. Thanks.

Hope it goes well for you - I'm amazed by the Michigan BAC level laws but different States sure are different.

Sometimes also sending a letter to the DA, letting him/her know you want help for your son, sort of filling in the details, helps. You very obviously don't want him punished; you want him treated.

Fingers crossed!

[fde]

I feel so bad for you. People get really up set when it comes to drunk drivers. I am a funeral director and have buried children that have died from drunk divers. I have also spoken to the mothers that go to the funeral because it was there son who killed the deceased. I know one thing and that is grief and you are grieving. The loss of a son you once new. You need help. There are lots of groups you can join to take comfort with other parents that have addictive children. Or a therapist that can help you walk through the confusion that he puts on you daily. He needs to get a full time job to pay for the gas,and everything else that you do for him. If he does not then he will have to brake parole and go to jail. Some times all we have is rock bottom to help ourselves. By helping him he will never do for himself. It is the hardest thing to do that is why you need someone to help keep you strong. There are also interventions you can do. DO NOT LET HIM STAY IN THAT HOUSE UNLESS HE HELPS Himself. I have helped in interventions where (I deal so much with grief )and I have seen the power that the rest of the family get back.
Please get your family help, give yourself permission to do something for you not just him.
He has a demon to deal with but you can not help him. It is who has to do it. Alone!

I wish you well and I hope that everything looks brighter for your family each day that goes by.

[twinkiedooter]

Here's a handy tool to figure out if someone has a drinking problem

Michigan Alcohol Screening Test

[mariansc]

Try talking directly with his probation/parole officer, that would be your starting point... he has a great deal to do with were he goes. Maybe a drug treatment center... that's what I normally see here in SC, before a jail sentence. I would also be pursuing where your son got alcohol and prosecute the person who gave it to him. My sister's daughter was 16 and she found out where she got it and prosecuted the adult. Here in SC legal age for drinking is 21, I'm pretty sure that includes the other 49 states... (correct me if I'm wrong).

I actually know a person who was prosecuted 5 times for dui, he kept getting probation and a fine all 5 times, 6th time he got a jail sentence. Unbelievable isn't it!

[Fr_Chuck]

Most probation officers are not going to be a lot of help, if anything they will do nothing or recommend that he gets more punishment. You canmost likely expect some jail time ( not long but some to make sure he knows they are seroius)

[JudyKayTee]

Try talking directly with his probation/parole officer, that would be your starting point...he has a great deal to do with were he goes. Maybe a drug treatment center...that's what I normally see here in SC, before a jail sentence. I would also be pursuing where your son got alcohol and prosecute the person who gave it to him. My sister's daughter was 16 and she found out where she got it and prosecuted the adult. Here in SC legal age for drinking is 21, I'm pretty sure that includes the other 49 states...(correct me if I'm wrong).

I actually know a person who was prosecuted 5 times for dui, he kept getting probation and a fine all 5 times, 6th time he got a jail sentence. Unbelievable isn't it!

Do you mean your sister sued the person who provided the alcohol - private citizens cannot prosecute; that's up to the legal system.

What was the basis for the suit? Where I am the Police will pursue the adult ("usually") if injury or property damage is involved; otherwise, everyone gets warned.

Maybe some of the underage drinking problem would be solved if adults were held responsible or could be sued without injury/property damage being involved.

[Scared gota dui]

Since I do not know your child I say this only as a suggestion. Maybe before you throw him to the wolves, I know it might sound daunting, but try and exuast every resource i.e attending Alcohol counseling ( go with him as well because my uncle,who attends AA once a week for the past 10 years, says that he majority of teenagers usually just sit there and don't say anything and then get heir card stamped showing that they "attended") If you do go with him I know it sounds odd, but pressure him into standing up and saying something that can be considered a step in the right direction. Now I know about the fiscal impact that will have on you and your family, but he is your son and wouldn't you do anything from him? After you have exausted every possible resource, and he shows no signs of improvement then recommend jail time to the judge and p.o. At least this way you won't think " oh my god why didn't I do That or that" etc etc. My final input would be that I recommend exausting every option because I know plenty of people who have been sent to jail, for the same case your son is being charged with, and come out even worse. Now I must stress that no I don't know your son, but seeing how I just got my first, and definitely last, dui I know that jail time wold only make me worse because I would feel like my parents abandoned me. In the end it will all be all right. I will pray for your son tonight before I go to bed though. God bless.

PS I don't know about your families beliefs but maybe turning to a form of religion will help too. I know it did for me. Also, I would appreciate you messaging me later on when this is over I am interested in what you will decide.