[Dana2007]

I think I'm not giving the answer you guys want to hear.

I think basically we all have to live in some illusionary mind set or we would all go insane.

I honestly have never given any deep thought to evolution. I spend more time with my thoughts and my inspirations and so I lean towards that? Where do my thought processes come from? Where do my inspirations come from? Where does my intuition come from? How did I know that? As appose to where did my body come from?

I would certainly be at awed if I could see evidence of evolution such as human remains that are older than apes. Maybe that would get my brain juices moving in another direction.



If you are married, you have to believe that your spouse loves you although that may not be true. Again, living in some form of illusion.



I have answered your questions. I am sorry if you can't comprehend what I am saying.

[ScottGem]

No Dana you have not answered the question. You have danced around it and avoided a direct answer. What's unfathomable to me about that is that I see no reason to be so evasive about it.

But maybe the problem is, as you say, you "have never given any deep thought to evolution". This is evidenced by your comment that you would "be at awed if I could see evidence of evolution such as human remains that are older than apes". But that wouldn't be evidence of evolution. In fact, there is plenty of evidence for evolution. Which is why a large number of people do believe in it. I'm not saying the evidence is such that it has been proven as scientific fact. Its still a theory, but one that fits the scientific facts better than any other.

[Dana2007]

Again, I'm sorry if you don't understand my answer.

To me I have given a clear answer.


Ultimately, there is no proof of anything not of God nor of evolution. We have to believe in things without proof. Belief can mean that there are no facts.

Anyone can get a mind set in one direction or another. One can go through periods in their life believing in evolution or some other belief and then later in life believe in God, etc.

They are all beliefs and not necessarily proof.

We will all die not having all the facts about anything, therefore, we live with illusions to keep us in one piece.

I personally try to keep an open mind about things and maybe that is why you don't understand my answer.

Maybe you want something concrete from me which I can't give.

[ScottGem]

To me I have given a clear answer.
...
Maybe you want something concrete from me which I can't give.

No you haven't given a clear answer, I don't have a clue how you can think so. But maybe its because you can't or won't. Maybe if I make this a multiple choice question you can answer it.

Q: You seem to believe in God so the question is do you feel that accepting evolution as scientific fact conflcts with your belief system in a God?

1) I believe that believing in Evolution conflicts with my belief in God
2) I believe that I can still believe in Evolution without it affecting my belief in God.

Please choose 1 or 2.

[Dana2007]

I don't know if I believe in evolution.

But if I did, I would probably think that God and evolution would go hand in hand,

The best choice is 2)


If the question is do you believe in evolution and I had to say yes or no, I would have to say no because I have never given any deep thought to it.


I don't even know why or how I believe in God but I do. I wish I knew why I have such a strong belief in God.

Has this discussion on why some of us believe in God been discussed anywhere on this site to your knowledge? I would be interested in reading it.

Why do you have such a strong need for someone to answer a question yes or no? Isn't there anything between for you?

[asking]

Dana, I really like your answer. It felt thoughtful and sincere to me and I like that you said it your way and didn't necessarily accept the choices given to you (although I think Scott was trying to make his question more clear and make it easy to answer, not box you in). Thank you! I did not understand what you were saying before or why.

For me, evolution is not about faith or belief. But that's because I have spent a lot of time thinking about it and learning about it. I feel confident that evolution is really true because I have personally seen evidence for it and have read about it in detail. I don't feel that I'm just taking someone's word for it. All the evidence fits together and makes sense. I am persuaded that it's true. It is not just some scientific theory that may or may not be true--and I wouldn't say that about all science. For example, I don't know beans about string theory and haven't a clue whether it's true or not.

I think it's totally reasonable to not be sure if an idea is true if you haven't spent much time reading about it or thinking about it. (I feel that way about a lot of politicians.) Science doesn't need to be taken on faith; that's the whole point!

On the other hand, I don't agree that major scientific ideas should be suspect just because some individual scientists are human and make mistakes or even lie. I think, by and large, the major ideas of science are all pretty much right--not because scientists are paragons of virtue, but because the process works and allows falsehoods to be revealed quickly. Having seen how science self corrects, I feel confident that most of it is probably true. So, even though I don't really understand quantum theory, I take it as a given that it's true. I admit that to a large degree I take it on the authority of writers and teachers I respected. If they say it's right, I believe them. But again, that's based on having learned something about how science works and deciding to trust the process (not the scientists).

In science, human weakness affects what questions get asked, but not the answers. Human weakness affects who gets to do the science, and who gets credit, but, in the long run, not the answers. (I'm not saying there aren't exceptions!)

[Dana2007]

Hello asking

It's perfectly fine for you to believe in evolution.

I have a tendency to not give humans 100 percent credit for everything. I think God inspires humans into understanding.

Maybe one day, I will ask God to inspire me on evolution then I'll have something to add to the subject. Maybe I will also gets some books from the library.

I don't discount all science either. I believe in computer science. Why shouldn't I? The proof is right in front of my face and at my finger tips, but I believe that God inspires humans on how to make them and how to make the software and many ideas are born from inspiration not experience nor from reading a book.

Who was the first person to think of making a strange machine that later would be called a computer? Those are the kinds of questions that intrigue me. At least that is where I am at this point in my life.


Sometimes I have gone as far as to believe that an automobile is powered not only by gasoline but by God. There is so much that we cannot see or understand.

I find it easier to believe an inspiration than what I read in a book.

asking, it really pleases me that you have found something to believe in. It has certainly enriched your life. It's great to be able to use your mind to believe in something.

[excon]

Hello again, Dana:

Asking gave you the reasons science isn't about belief. He did it very gently too, with a lot of empathy towards you. Then you tell him you think it's fine that he believes.

I have to scratch my head... I don't know how you couldn't have understood what he said, but you didn't. Explaining to you further that science doesn't offer choices will do no good. You will continue to think you can pick between which science you believe. Telling you that you can't will be met with an argument.

So, I'm content to let you live in your ignorance. I wish you well. I'm sure you're a fine person. But, we can't get any further here.

excon

[ScottGem]

I don't know if I believe in evolution.

But if I did, I would probably think that God and evolution would go hand in hand,

the best choice is 2)


If the question is do you believe in evolution and I had to say yes or no, I would have to say no because I have never given any deep thought to it.

Thank you. But I have to add some comments here. I think both excon and I made this question clear. The question was never whether you believed in evolution or not, it was about whether you felt that believing in evolution meant changing your religious belief system. Thankfully, when left with a very clear choice, you answered what I think is the best answer.

[Dana2007]

I think that you both have a certain mind set and maybe a certain amount of brainwashing that doesn't let you understand what I am saying.

Perhaps you guys are the ignorant ones.


I do not spend too much time reading scientific stuff and I try to keep and open mind. If people what to believe in science or God or what ever. That's fine with me.


I see no reason why evolution and God can't work together. It is you guys who fail to understand where I am coming from. It is you who fail to understand that believing in both God and evolution simultaneously is possible.


There maybe a form of evolution that no human has discovered yet or that will never understand either.

How do you know if God isn't behind evolution? There are probably people in the world who think of evolution in their own way.


I think you need to spend more time forming your own opinions as oppose to what some scientist or researchers say and spend more time listening to your thoughts

[jillianleab]

There may be a difference in that animals may use deception to obtain food or escape a preditor while humans lie about cheating and out of greed or to protect a dangerous criminal from going to jail, etc. Or they might lie just out of hate. Or they might lie to a husband that his wife is cheating. Humans make up lies for greed. I don't think animals are deceptive to gain a bunch of cars or a bunch property or stocks/bonds, etc. They are not going to lie to their sex partner about having an STD or HIV.

The "talking" ape Koko used to lie to her trainers when she did something wrong - she would blame other apes. So maybe they DO lie, we just don't understand their deceit until we understand their "language".

[ScottGem]

I think that you both have a certain mind set

Perhaps you guys are the ignorant ones.

I see no reason why evolution and God can't work together. It is you guys who fail to understand where I am coming from. It is you who fail to understand that believing in both God and evolution simultaneously is possible.

I think you need to spend more time forming your own opinions as oppose to what some scientist or researchers say and spend more time listening to your thoughts

Who "both"? What guys? There have been a few people participating in this thread. I don't see any of them fitting what you describe.

I don't see how your comments could apply to me. I said believing in God and Evolution was what I considered the right answer. I don't think I saw anyone's comments that could lead to that conclusion.

As for the last paragraph I quoted. I know I look at the facts presented not necessarily the researcher's conclusions.

[Dana2007]

Scott, sorry if I was talking to both you and excon. I can't always tell who it is that is looking for an answer.

I believe in evolution now because I am watching The Incredible Mr. Limpet. He was a human who turned into a fish. Maybe one day some humans will turn into fish. LOL

[asking]

Maybe one day some humans will turn into fish. LOL

Like dolphins evolved from a hippo-like animal. :)
You never know.

[Dana2007]

Maybe some human mothers are already giving birth to fish. LOL

[RubyPitbull]

Dana, if you like fiction and the idea of a child born with "flippers", you just reminded me of a book that I read 20 years ago entitled "Geek Love". I remember I really loved the book, pure escapism & entertaining.ReadingGroupGuides.com - Geek Love by Katherine Dunn

[Dana2007]

Hi Ruby

Thanks. Looks like my local library has it as a download. Will have to figure out how to do that?

Looking forward to reading it. Sounds like fun. Thanks.