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NeedKarma · Dec 10, 2007, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by savedsinner7

I don't think it's wrong for people to express well wishings to others.

The Great Flying Spagetti Monster looks down on you and wishes you well.

savedsinner7 · Dec 10, 2007, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The Great Flying Spagetti Monster looks down on you and wishes you well.

Merry Christmas to you! :D

NowWhat · Dec 11, 2007, 08:49 AM

Well, when someone tells me "happy holidays", I just say, "thank you, Merry Christmas". I work at a bank and I tell my customers merry Christmas. It is just natural to me. I've never thought of saying "Happy Holidays". It's not something I spend hours on thinking about.
I think some things are way over thought. I mean, have you heard, Santa can't say
"Ho, Ho, Ho" anymore. It is offensive to some, especially after the Don Imus thing this year. Santa should say "Ha, Ha, Ha' now. Come on people, is this what it has all come down too?

RustyFairmount · Dec 19, 2007, 07:15 PM

I think it's important to wish people happy holidays using a specific holiday greeting that suits the one that THEY choose to celebrate. Happy Hannukah, Peaceful Ramadan, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Joyous Quanza, etc. All I need to do is ask them what holiday they're preparing for before I open my mouth. Simply casting a holiday greeting without regard for the recipient is disrespectful.

Being that this is a Christian discussion, I'd like to wish y'all a very merry and blessed Christmas!

Aton3 · Dec 19, 2007, 07:49 PM

Wonder why nobody ever says Merry Mitramass: after all December 25th is HIS birtday, not Christ's.

JoeCanada76 · Dec 19, 2007, 10:15 PM

Interesting thought Aton3.

rpg219 · Dec 19, 2007, 11:36 PM

No wonder my 2yo is scared to death... I would be too if some big guy came up to me saying ha, ha, ha... now we laugh about christmas?? What kind of message does THAT send? I got the email too... it gave me chills, so true.. so true

Soldout · Dec 20, 2007, 08:26 AM

It should just be Merry Christmas because ALL of these stores have Christmas lights, Trees, Santa etc so if they really want to be "inclusive" of all religions they should not display Christmas lights, play Christmas music e.t.c Because that means the store is sending a message that they do support Christmas anyway. So Why not say Merry Christamas.

NeedKarma · Dec 20, 2007, 08:51 AM

They put those lights up because it's all about sales, not the birth of anything.

Synnen · Dec 20, 2007, 08:52 AM

A lot of those stores DON'T cater specifically to Christmas. They carry Christmas items because they SELL, and the whole point of a retail store is to SELL things that their customers want to buy.

I simply wish a Happy Solstice, or Happy Saturnalia to anyone that wishes me Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. My holiday has many of the same traditions--as a matter of fact, Christianity as a whole "borrowed" those pagan traditions centuries ago.

So... I'm not Christian, but I put up a tree, have a wreath, exchange gifts, and light candles. Instead of angels and Santas on my tree, though, I have icicles and images of the goddess, and mistletoe and a LOT of lights--symbols of MY religion.

While I agree that there are fewer pagans than Christians or Jews or Muslims--the stores are NOT just catering to Christians.

You want Christ back in Christmas? Then by all means wish people a Merry Christmas. Just don't get mad when they wish YOU happy holidays because they aren't Christians.

THAT is where the problem is: Christians get all huffy and self-righteous about OTHER religions celebrating something at THEIR holiday time, and want people to JUST acknowledge Christmas. Well, guess what? I make a POINT of offending Christians that get all huffy about something as dumb as saying "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"

As far as taking it out on minimum wage employees who are just doing what they're told to do--why not ask a manager instead? Why not write a letter to the company in question? Why take it out on some poor kid trying to earn money for the HOLIDAYS? Why not just turn the other cheek and wish them a Merry Christmas in return and move on? Why get so angry about it at all?

Don't you have anything more important to worry about? ARen't there millions of people NOT having a merry holiday this year--shouldn't you take a dollar every time you get mad at a store clerk for saying "happy holidays" and give it to the Salvation Army to show what a good Christian you are?

Vote with your dollars if you like--I do the same--but don't get mad because people are sick of being told that Christians (who've had their way for DECADES) feel oppressed.

jillianleab · Dec 20, 2007, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Soldout

It should just be Merry Christmas because ALL of these stores have Christmas lights, Trees, Santa etc so if they really want to be "inclusive" of all religions they should not display Christmas lights, play Christmas music e.t.c Because that means the store is sending a message that they do support Christmas anyway. so Why not say Merry Christamas.

My former boss (a Jew) decorates his house with garland, mistletoe, ornaments, lights, wrapped presents, reindeer, wreaths and an enormous tree (he calls it a Hanukkah bush for fun). He also enjoys Christmas music, especially the instrumentals. So it's not just Christians who buy and enjoy these things.

ETA:

Even me, a heathen atheist has a tree. I also celebrate with my brothers, cousins and friends each year with "Christmas Beer" (buy lots of exotic beer and sample) and with the women in my family with "Christmas Tea". We also have Christmas Eve dinner and exchange small gifts, then on Christmas morning we have "Christmas Brunch" and open all the rest of the gifts. NO ONE (except my 80-year old grandmother) in my family is a Christian.

Aton3 · Dec 20, 2007, 10:50 PM

You might make life easier on yourself by not confusing the 'Christ' of Christmas, with the Jesus of history. Don't try so hard to take the 'Happy' out of Happy Holidays.

NowWhat · Dec 21, 2007, 07:09 AM

You know, I am one of those "crazy" christians. I almost take offense to be lumped together with a whole group of people by someone who doesn't know me. I digress...

I wish people a merry christmas, because that is what I celebrate. I am doing the wishing. So, Since it is my wish, I wish you a Merry christmas.
Get over it.

Synnen · Dec 21, 2007, 07:54 AM

NowWhat--Thank you very much! You have a Happy Solstice, this Saturday, and may the New Year bring you peace and happiness!

(See how easy that was? No offense was taken, and BOTH sides got to wish their own holiday!)

NowWhat · Dec 21, 2007, 07:56 AM

Synnen, I didn't take offense to that at all. :)

Wow, two adults able to express their own feelings and no one got offended. What a novel idea.

Soldout · Dec 21, 2007, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

They put those lights up because it's all about sales, not the birth of anything.

Yes so if they want to continue those sales they should go all the way and just say merry Christmas because we know that what they are saying by hanging Christmas lights e.t.c

Soldout · Dec 21, 2007, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

A lot of those stores DON'T cater specifically to Christmas. They carry Christmas items because they SELL, and the whole point of a retail store is to SELL things that their customers want to buy.

I simply wish a Happy Solstice, or Happy Saturnalia to anyone that wishes me Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. My holiday has many of the same traditions--as a matter of fact, Christianity as a whole "borrowed" those pagan traditions centuries ago.

So...I'm not Christian, but I put up a tree, have a wreath, exchange gifts, and light candles. Instead of angels and Santas on my tree, though, I have icicles and images of the goddess, and mistletoe and a LOT of lights--symbols of MY religion.

While I agree that there are fewer pagans than Christians or Jews or Muslims--the stores are NOT just catering to Christians.

You want Christ back in Christmas? Then by all means wish people a Merry Christmas. Just don't get mad when they wish YOU happy holidays because they aren't Christians.

THAT is where the problem is: Christians get all huffy and self-righteous about OTHER religions celebrating something at THEIR holiday time, and want people to JUST acknowledge Christmas. Well, guess what? I make a POINT of offending Christians that get all huffy about something as dumb as saying "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"

As far as taking it out on minimum wage employees who are just doign what they're told to do--why not ask a manager instead? Why not write a letter to the company in question? Why take it out on some poor kid trying to earn money for the HOLIDAYS? Why not just turn the other cheek and wish them a Merry Christmas in return and move on? Why get so angry about it at all?

Don't you have anything more important to worry about? ARen't there millions of people NOT having a merry holiday this year--shouldn't you take a dollar every time you get mad at a store clerk for saying "happy holidays" and give it to the Salvation Army to show what a good Christian you are?

Vote with your dollars if you like--I do the same--but don't get mad because people are sick of being told that Christians (who've had their way for DECADES) feel oppressed.

Lol... :D you people crack me up. So do you worship pagon gods, Odin? And the moon god and the sun god?. lol Unless you worship pagon gods you are actually helping Christians celebrate Christmas by putting up christmas lights buying gifts and having a Christmas tree. Gift giving and santa was a tradition adopted by CHristians during Christmas time as a way to symbolise the gift God gave us, His Son. Santa Clause is St Nicholas whose wealthy parents raised him to be a devout Christian. He gave away his wealth to the poor and had a reputation for secret gift-giving juring Christmas. So You can try and non-Christianise it as much as you want but the fact still remains that those tradistions were adopted by Christians hundreds of years ago for the purpose of celebrating Christ's Birth. So if you want to part take in OUR tradition of Christmas and hang Christmas trees and lights that's fine, but don't try and justify yourself by looking to its pagon origins as a way to not look like a Hypocrite for celebrating a Christian holiday. Don't tell people NOT to say Merry CHristmas to you but at the same time you are hanging Christmas lights and decorating trees don't you think that is having double standards? Unless of course you are one of the last 3 people on earth who still worship the moon and sun god.

Synnen · Dec 21, 2007, 09:26 AM

Believe what you want---pagan worship of the sun and moon and nature has been around longer than Christianity, and had most of your Christmas traditions in place WELL before the birth of Christ.

You can give me websites that tell me that the lights you hang symbolize the star the wise men followed, and I can counter with websites that say it came from the pagan tradition of keeping a light lit through the longest night of the year, in hopes that the Sun would be reborn again in the morning.

You'll point to Saint Nicholas and his tradition of giving gifts of charity to others as the origin of the gift giving, and I'll point out that the Roman Saturnalia existed LONG before St. Nick.

We could go back and forth all day--yet in the end, my traditions are older than yours. I celebrate the Solstice, and we'll be exchanging gifts on Saturday around a fire.

The thing that I think is funniest here--you really don't realize how arrogant you sound, making it as though everyone else has CHRISTMAS traditions, and just calls them something else. Is there enough adult in you to wish me Merry Christmas, and accept Happy Solstice in return, both for the spirit in which they're offered, rather than the religious war you make it?

Lead by your actions. If you act a sulky child because someone doesn't wish you a Merry Christmas, and says "Happy Holidays" because THEY don't know which holiday you celebrate, well--don't be surprised when you give the impression that Christians are sulky children who want their own way. Wishing them a Merry Christmas in return, and really meaning it, would make you out to be more adult, and more faithful, and make you look a better person.

Edit: I never said not to tell me Merry Christmas, btw--I just said that I will wish you a joyful time of MY holiday in return. It's when people get MAD that I'm not following their religion that I get upset. I happily accept all wishes for a joyful holiday--whatever holiday that might be.

Soldout · Dec 21, 2007, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by jillianleab

My former boss (a Jew) decorates his house with garland, mistletoe, ornaments, lights, wrapped presents, reindeer, wreaths and an enormous tree (he calls it a Hanukkah bush for fun). He also enjoys Christmas music, especially the instrumentals. So it's not just Christians who buy and enjoy these things.

ETA:

Even me, a heathen atheist has a tree. I also celebrate with my brothers, cousins and friends each year with "Christmas Beer" (buy lots of exotic beer and sample) and with the women in my family with "Christmas Tea". We also have Christmas Eve dinner and exchange small gifts, then on Christmas morning we have "Christmas Brunch" and open all the rest of the gifts. NO ONE (except my 80-year old grandmother) in my family is a Christian.

Of course! "everyone" celebrates Christmas there is nothing wrong with that, I am glad you do... I just find it funny that the same people who say Don't say "Merry Christmas" say "Happy Holidays" are the same people buying Christmas lights, lighting candles, decorating Christmas Trees, Buying Gifts, taking their kids to see father Christmas St Nicholas e.t.c It just doesn't make any sense to me because Christians adopted those traditions as a way to express and celebrate the birth of their savior and non Christians want to part take in the traditions but they don't want us to say merry Christmas. So I think non-christians need to make up their minds. If they want to part take in our Christmas traditions, trees stanta etc, they are free to do so but they should not have double standard and demand that we call it happy holiday because it is just a holiday, its Christmas. If on the other hand non-Christians don't want us to say Merry Christmas to people then inturn Christmas should not be made public, so they should stop putting Christmas lights trees in stores and public places so that we don't offend anyone with our traditions. Then we can leave the lights, tress, santa etc to Christians to practice in their homes or at Church. So it is simple you can't have it both ways because it send mixed messages. A store clerk will say happy holidays to you but they have a Christmas tree in the window and a big picture of Santa, that a double standard, and it sends mixed messages. So I like that all religions part take in Christmas traditions, but its just anoying when those same people complain about the Phrase "merry Christmas" but the next day they take their kids to go see Santa.

Soldout · Dec 21, 2007, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

Believe what you want---pagan worship of the sun and moon and nature has been around longer than Christianity, and had most of your Christmas traditions in place WELL before the birth of Christ.

You can give me websites that tell me that the lights you hang symbolize the star the wise men followed, and I can counter with websites that say it came from the pagan tradition of keeping a light lit through the longest night of the year, in hopes that the Sun would be reborn again in the morning.

You'll point to Saint Nicholas and his tradition of giving gifts of charity to others as the origin of the gift giving, and I'll point out that the Roman Saturnalia existed LONG before St. Nick.

We could go back and forth all day--yet in the end, my traditions are older than yours. I celebrate the Solstice, and we'll be exchanging gifts on Saturday around a fire.

The thing that I think is funniest here--you really don't realize how arrogant you sound, making it as though everyone else has CHRISTMAS traditions, and just calls them something else. Is there enough adult in you to wish me Merry Christmas, and accept Happy Solstice in return, both for the spirit in which they're offered, rather than the religious war you make it?

Lead by your actions. If you act a sulky child because someone doesn't wish you a Merry Christmas, and says "Happy Holidays" because THEY don't know which holiday you celebrate, well--don't be surprised when you give the impression that Christians are sulky children who want their own way. Wishing them a Merry Christmas in return, and really meaning it, would make you out to be more adult, and more faithful, and make you look a better person.

Edit: I never said not to tell me Merry Christmas, btw--I just said that I will wish you a joyful time of MY holiday in return. It's when people get MAD that I'm not following their religion that I get upset. I happily accept all wishes for a joyful holiday--whatever holiday that might be.

Like I said Synnen since your justification for participating in what most call the perks of Christmas, is its Pagon origin, you can decorate your tree to celebrate your pagon gods. I have no problem with that.