[Homegirl 50]

I'm sorry, but a white person has no business calling a black person that. I am just not getting why white people are getting bent out of shape because they are called to task for calling a black person "N". Why would you say it in the first place?
You guys have been able to use that word and do what ever else you want to do for centuries with no repercussions. Now it is deemed wrong. Deal with it. You should not be using it regardless of who else says it.
I'm not understanding what the problem is.
There is a double standard in a lot of things. Men get away with things women can't and wemen have been able to get awat with some things men would be thrown to the lions for. Is it wrong, yes, but the thing to do, is just not do what you're not supposed to do. We are talking about not using racial slurs. I'm not seeing what is so hard about that, unless you're a racist.

[speechlesstx]

I'm sorry, but a white person has no business calling a black person that. I am just not getting why white people are getting bent out of shape because they are called to task for calling a black person "N". Why would you say it in the first place?

I haven't read back through all the posts but is someone all bent out of shape over a white being taken to task using the "n word" toward a black? It seems to me we all pretty much agree that's a no-no.

You guys have been able to use that word and do what ever else you want to do for centuries with no repercussions. Now it is deemed wrong. Deal with it. You should not be using it regardless of who else says it.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific here. Who is "you guys?" What exactly have "you guys" been getting away with recently?

I'm not understanding what the problem is.

Let's hear from a few prominent blacks:

"Let me tell you something," Cosby, one of America's most admired men, told the group. "Your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other [the N-word] as they're walking up and down the street. They think they're hip. They can't read. They can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

"It's the same thing I've been saying since 1976," said Jesse L. Jackson, the president of the Rainbow/PUSH group, who was at Cosby's side on Thursday. He criticized rap-music artists who liberally use derogatory terms for blacks and women, as well as black and white listeners who blithely repeat the words. "It's unacceptable," Jackson said.

Without a doubt, whites referring to blacks by that term is unacceptable (just like calling me "cracker"), but it seems to me if blacks want to do all they can to eliminate it's usage they should stop using it. Should they be offended if one of their white hip-hop fans sings along with 50 Cent? Seems rather ludicrous to sell all these albums to white listeners, run around calling each other 'nigga' and 'ho' and then get all bent out of shape when some white guy somewhere utters the words. If you don't want it used remove it from the culture, rise above it, instead of thinking like the Rev. Al who only half-heartedly supported Cosby and blamed us white folk:

"I agree that we have to do something about the internal contradiction of our community," said Sharpton, who ran against Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), the presumptive Democratic nominee, in the presidential primaries. "But we also must be careful not to relieve the general community of what they've done to our community."

That's the problem Al, as long as you keep the blame on others for victimizing the black community - and people actually listen to you - we're going to go nowhere. To me what he said is thousand times more offensive than some white guy using the "n word" because I've done nothing to his "community" and I'm not going to take the blame or feel one smidgen of guilt.

the thing to do, is just not do what you're not supposed to do. We are talking about not using racial slurs. I'm not seeing what is so hard about that, unless you're a racist.

I agree. I also think the terms "racist" and "racism" should not be thrown around so loosely and irresponsibly.

[Homegirl 50]

You should go back and read all the post, or at least alll that I have said. I have said no one should use it. I'm getting tired of hearing "rappers use it" Rappers are not all black people, they are a very small minority. Al Sharpton is in the news, Jessie Jackson is in the news because that's where the media wants them, to get people to think they represent all black folks. They do not. They show this stuff to give white folks a reason to say "see they call each other that, why can't we call them that" These people are not black America, they are a small portion that is purposely shown because it perpetuates an image. And these ignorant rappers out there make this trash because white producers know there is money in it and this mess sells. These companies are white owned, just like the rappers are.
Racial terms are wrong. My beef is given the history in this country, why are people getting bent out of ashape because they are told they should not call a black person a N? If you are not racist, if you don't use the word, why does it even bother you.
I don't used the word, I grew in in the day when it was used and we were used and abused. I hate the word and I hate that people think they should still be able to use it and no one should be offended.

[speechlesstx]

You should go back and read all the post, or at least alll that I have said. I have said no one should use it. I'm getting tired of hearing "rappers use it" Rappers are not all black people, they are a very small minority.

I quoted Cosby as saying "Your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other [the N-word] as they're walking up and down the street. They think they're hip. They can't read. They can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere." Doesn't sound like he was talking about rappers but every day kids. I'm still interested in an answer to my question though, should blacks be offended if one of their white hip-hop fans sings along with 50 Cent?

Al Sharpton is in the news, Jessie Jackson is in the news because that's where the media wants them, to get people to think they represent all black folks. They do not.

Amen to that.

They show this stuff to give white folks a reason to say "see they call each other that, why can't we call them that" These people are not black America, they are a small portion that is purposely shown because it perpetuates an image. And these ignorant rappers out there make this trash because white producers know there is money in it and this mess sells. These companies are white owned, just like the rappers are.

Oh I know plenty of rich white folks make a ton of money off rap and hip hop, but you still seem to be missing the point. Blacks that make use of these terms need to take responsibility for the seeds they've sown, don't put it off on white people making money. What does it say about those in the black community that would give some white owned company that kind of power over them anyway?

Racial terms are wrong. My beef is given the history in this country, why are people getting bent out of ashape because they are told they should not call a black person a N? If you are not racist, if you don't use the word, why does it even bother you. I don't used the word, I grew in in the day when it was used and we were used and abused. I hate the word and I hate that people think they should still be able to use it and no one should be offended.

I don't believe they're bent out of shape for being told not to use the word, they're bent out of shape over the seeming double standard. If it's offensive for whites to use it should be offensive for anyone to use it.

[Homegirl 50]

What does it say about those in the black community that would give some white owned company that kind of power over them anyway?

Again, this is not the black community. This is only what you see. This is about image and money. An image society wants portrayed and money people will sell out to make. Large companies have power over just about all of us, they hold the purse strings and we buy into what they want us to by into, so this is not just about black people. But again I am talking a small minority of black folks. We are not all rappers and all of us don't listen to rapp.
I'm still interested in an answer to my question though, should blacks be offended if one of their white hip-hop fans sings along with 50 Cent?

Black folks are offended because not all black folks listen to rap. We don't all buy into that stuff. I don't listen to rapp, have never heard anything 50 Cent has done. I have no desire to give my money to anybody that uses the word in such a flippant manner. I feel sorry and pain by those who don't have sense enough to know what that word means, and the people who suffered and bled so that word could not be used flippantly.
So yes, I am offended by ignorance from both white and black people.
There are many different images of white people portrayed in the media. I have sense enough to know there are many of white folks. You all think differently, behave differently, have different points of view.
Media seems to only want to portray one image of blacks so people can think this is the way we all are. So Rap is what people see, the negative is what people see and so we are all lumped together.
I am offended that people feel they have a legitimate excuse to continue to use the word.

[Homegirl 50]

I don't believe they're bent out of shape for being told not to use the word, they're bent out of shape over the seeming double standard. If it's offensive for whites to use it should be offensive for anyone to use it.
It is. I have said so. But like I said I don't undertsand why they even care unless they use the word themselves.
I am not offended by someone telling me not to use a term, whether they uses it amongst themselves or not. If it's bad, it's bad.

[ETWolverine]

Homegirl 50,

We seem to be in agreement that nobody should be using that word regardless of ethnicity.

However, the double-standard comes about when only one side gets taken to task for it.

Imus used the words "nappy-headed hos" and got fired for it. He was rightly taken to task for his language and racial comments.

On the other hand, when a rapper uses similar language, not only does he not get taken to taks for it, he ends up earning huge money and various awards for it. The 2005 Oscar winner for best original song was "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp". This song featured use of the B-word at least 7 times, the N-word once, and the use of the term "snow-bunny" to describe a white prostitute.

Yes, you are correct that nobody should use such words. But when one group gets fired for using such terminology while the other group wins Oscar awards, we need to examine why that double-standard exists.

The racism isn't in the use of the words... everyone is in agreement that the words are bad and that nobody should use them. It's in the consequences for using those words that the racist double-standard exists.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

Again, this is not the black community. This is only what you see. This is about image and money. An image society wants portrayed and money people will sell out to make. Large companies have power over just about all of us, they hold the purse strings and we buy into what they want us to by into, so this is not just about black people. But again I am talking a small minority of black folks. We are not all rappers and all of us don't listen to rapp.

Well, I did say "those in the black community." You're right, you aren't all rappers - and this goes to my point - it is what we see. I believe that's goes to Cosby's point as well, that if the black community wants us to see more, show us something else. Take back your culture, take back your power, take back your families from these blacks that are modeling a negative image for us to see.

Black folks are offended because not all black folks listen to rap. We don't all buy into that stuff. I don't listen to rapp, have never heard anything 50 Cent has done. I have no desire to give my money to anybody that uses the word in such a flippant manner. I feel sorry and pain by those who don't have sense enough to know what that word means, and the people who suffered and bled so that word could not be used flippantly.
So yes, I am offended by ignorance from both white and black people.

I think we're more on the same side than you think. I don't lump you all in together, I know the difference, but beyond taking those to task who really deserve it, don't get upset with us. Get mad at those in your community that drag your community down. Get mad at the record and movie producers, the rappers, the race hustlers, etc. I've been ready to just get along for years :)

[Homegirl 50]

Well, I did say "those in the black community." You're right, you aren't all rappers - and this goes to my point - it is what we see. I believe that's goes to Cosby's point as well, that if the black community wants us to see more, show us something else. Take back your culture, take back your power, take back your families from these blacks that are modeling a negative image for us to see.
You see the negative image because that is what the media wants you to see. What you see is not the majority. Mr. Cosby is saying we should not be behaving in such a manner and that is true, but there are white folk that are doing despicable things. Your teens are having babies, using drugs, molesting kids but that image is not portrayed for the world to see. If there is someone telling white kids to stop doing such things, that is not portrayed for the world to see.
As far as taking back our culture, we lost our culture when we were brought over in slave ships. We were doctors and lawyers and teachers and it took the civil rights movement to allow us to continue to live and have a culture and power.
We continue to be are doctors and lawyers and teachers and hard working families raising kids who marry and have kids. We have hard working decent people just like white folk, but you don't see that because it is not the image the media wants you to see.

I think we're more on the same side than you think. I don't lump you all in together, I know the difference, but beyond taking those to task who really deserve it, don't get upset with us. Get mad at those in your community that drag your community down. Get mad at the record and movie producers, the rappers, the race hustlers, etc.
I am angry with those people, I don't support them and I do take them to task. I don't care for anyone who drags our cummunity down. But again, that is only a segment of our community. I also get upset at the media because that is the only image shown, like that is all there is to black folks and none of this exist in the white community. But that is still no excuse for a white person to call a black person the N word.

[Homegirl 50]

Homegirl 50,

We seem to be in agreement that nobody should be using that word regardless of ethnicity.

However, the double-standard comes about when only one side gets taken to task for it.

Imus used the words "nappy-headed hos" and got fired for it. He was rightly taken to task for his language and racial comments.

On the other hand, when a rapper uses similar language, not only does he not get taken to taks for it, he ends up earning huge money and various awards for it. The 2005 Oscar winner for best original song was "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp". This song featured use of the B-word at least 7 times, the N-word once, and the use of the term "snow-bunny" to describe a white prostitute.

Yes, you are correct that nobody should use such words. But when one group gets fired for using such terminology while the other group wins Oscar awards, we need to examine why that double-standard exists.

The racism isn't in the use of the words... everyone is in agreement that the words are bad and that nobody should use them. It's in the consequences for using those words that the racist double-standard exists.

Elliot

And who gave that award? The white media. That is the image they want portrayed. They want it to look like we (black folk think that is so wonderful)
There is no way that should have gotten an award for anything. They will give an Oscar for some triflin mess like that, but will cheat a good black actor out of one. They are not doing us a favor. They are doing nothing but perpetuating a negative image.
The double standard exist because the powers want it to, they perpetuate it, to keep the s**t hitting the fan, to keep the image going.
I think the double standard is wrong as well, I don't use the word, don't like my people using it, and when I hear one of mine using it I call them to task, but I'm still not understanding why some white folk get upset about not being able to call black folk that. If you don't think that way or use the word yourself, what's the problem?

[speechlesstx]

You see the negative image because that is what the media wants you to see. What you see is not the majority. Mr. Cosby is saying we should not be behaving in such a manner and that is true, but there are white folk that are doing despicable things. Your teens are having babies, using drugs, molesting kids but that image is not portrayed for the world to see. If there is someone telling white kids to stop doing such things, that is not portrayed for the world to see.

Come on Homegirl 50, nobody is saying there aren't despicable white people, or problems in our community, there are. If you don't see that being portrayed for all the world to see you haven't been paying attention.

Nobody is saying all blacks are hip hoppin' thugs, they aren't. And if you think that's all the media wants us to see you're being very naïve in my opinion. The media is complicit in playing the victim card on behalf of the black community, imposing guilt on white America not only for sins of the past but alleged sins of the present. I remember the Katrina coverage, don't you? I remember the Jena six coverage and the Duke LaCrosse case coverage, don't you? That's what the media wants us to see, racism and bigotry in white America, not a negative image of blacks.

As far as taking back our culture, we lost our culture when we were brought over in slave ships. We were doctors and lawyers and teachers and it took the civil rights movement to allow us to continue to live and have a culture and power.
We continue to be are doctors and lawyers and teachers and hard working families raising kids who marry and have kids. We have hard working decent people just like white folk, but you don't see that because it is not the image the media wants you to see.
[B]

You know, I'm on your side so please, no slave ship lines. "We" weren't brought over in slave ships. There hasn't been a slave ship bringing blacks to this country in how long? Isn't it time to get past that? I don't know about you but I was born an American, I have no connection to Europe where "we" are "from." What good does it do to raise the issue of slave ships today? Besides, Walter Williams granted us amnesty:

Proclamation of Amnesty and Pardon Granted to All Persons of European Descent


Whereas, Europeans kept my forebears in bondage some three centuries toiling without pay,

Whereas, Europeans ignored the human rights pledges of the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution,

Whereas, the Emancipation Proclamation, the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments meant little more than empty words,

Therefore, Americans of European ancestry are guilty of great crimes against my ancestors and their progeny.

But, in the recognition Europeans themselves have been victims of various and sundry human rights violations to wit: the Norman Conquest, the Irish Potato Famine, Decline of the Hapsburg Dynasty, Napoleonic and Czarist adventurism, and gratuitous insults and speculations about the intelligence of Europeans of Polish descent,

I, Walter E. Williams, do declare full and general amnesty and pardon to all persons of European ancestry, for both their own grievances, and those of their forebears, against my people.

Therefore, from this day forward Americans of European ancestry can stand straight and proud knowing they are without guilt and thus obliged not to act like damn fools in their relationships with Americans of African ancestry.

Walter E. Williams, Gracious and Generous Grantor

I am angry with those people, I don't support them and I do take them to task. I don't care for anyone who drags our cummunity down. But again, that is only a segment of our community. I also get upset at the media because that is the only image shown, like that is all there is to black folks and none of this exist in the white community. But that is still no excuse for a white person to call a black person the N word.

I don't believe anyone here is giving a white person an excuse to call a black person the "n word." We just don't think blacks have any excuse to call each other that, either. That's consistent.

[Homegirl 50]

Granting amnesty and changing attitudes are two different things, and what this guy wrote has nothing to do with racism.
It's been a nice topic.

[ETWolverine]

They will give an Oscar for some triflin mess like that, but will cheat a good black actor out of one.

I seem to remember Denzel Washington (Training Day) and Halle Berry (Monsters Ball) winning Oscars at the same time in 2001.

Jamie Foxx won for Ray in 2004.

Sidney Poitier won in 1963 for Lillies of the Field.

In fact, here is the list of all the African American Oscar nominees, including the winners.

Year Nominee Category
1958 Sidney Poitier Best Actor
1963 Sidney Poitier Best Actor
1979 James Earl Jones Best Actor
1972 Paul Winfield Best Actor
1986 Dexter Gordon Best Actor
1989 Morgan Freeman Best Actor
1992 Denzel Washington Best Actor
1993 Laurence Fishburne Best Actor
1994 Morgan Freeman Best Actor
1999 Denzel Washington Best Actor
2001 Denzel Washington Best Actor
2001 Will Smith Best Actor
2004 Jamie Foxx Best Actor
2004 Don Cheadle Best Actor
2005 Terrence Howard Best Actor
2006 Forrest Whitaker Best Actor
2006 Will Smith Best Actor
1954 Dorothy Dandridge Best Actress
1972 Diana Ross Best Actress
1972 Cicely Tyson Best Actress
1974 Dihann Carroll Best Actress
1985 Whoopi Goldberg Best Actress
1993 Angella Bassett Best Actress
2001 Halle Berry Best Actress
1969 Rupert Crosse Supporting Actor
1981 Howard Rollins Supporting Actor
1982 Louis Gossett Jr. Supporting Actor
1984 Adolph Caesar Supporting Actor
1987 Morgan Freeman Supporting Actor
1987 Denzel Washington Supporting Actor
1989 Denzel Washington Supporting Actor
1992 Jaye Davidson Supporting Actor
1994 Samual L. Jackson Supporting Actor
1996 Cuba Gooding Jr. Supporting Actor
1999 Michael Clarke Duncan Supporting Actor
2003 Djimon Hounsou Supporting Actor
2004 Morgan Freeman Supporting Actor
2004 Jamie Foxx Supporting Actor
2006 Djimon Hounsou Supporting Actor
2006 Eddie Murphy Supporting Actor
1939 Hattie McDaniel Supporting Actress
1948 Ethel Waters Supporting Actress
1959 Juanita Moore Supporting Actress
1967 Beah Richards Supporting Actress
1983 Alfre Woodard Supporting Actress
1985 Margaret Avery Supporting Actress
1985 Oprah Winfrey Supporting Actress
1990 Whoopi Goldberg Supporting Actress
1996 Marianne Jean-Baptiste Supporting Actress
2002 Queen Latifah Supporting Actress
2004 Sophie Okonedo Supporting Actress
2006 Jennifer Hudson Supporting Actress
1961 Duke Ellington Original Musical Score
1967 Quincy Jones Original Musical Score
1971 Isaac Hayes Original Musical Score
1978 Quincy Jones Original Musical Score
1984 Prince Original Musical Score
1985 Quincy Jones Original Musical Score
1985 Andrae Crouch Original Musical Score
1986 Herbie Hancock Original Musical Score
1987 Jonas Gwangwa Original Musical Score
1967 Quincy Jones Original Song
1967 Bob Russell Original Song
1968 Quincy Jones Original Song
1968 Bob Russell Original Song
1971 Isaac Hayes Original Song
1981 Lionel Richie Original Song
1983 Irene Cara Original Song
1984 Stevie Wonder Original Song
1984 Ray Parker Jr. Original Song
1985 Lionel Richie Original Song
1985 Quincy Jones/Lionel Richie Original Song
1987 Jonas Gwangwa Original Song
1988 Lamont Dozier Original Song
1993 Jimmy Jam Original Song
1993 Terry Lewis Original Song
1993 Janet Jackson Original Song
1994 James Ingram Original Song
1995 James Ingram Original Song
2005 Jordan Houston Original Song
2005 Cedric Coleman Original Song
2005 Paul Beauregard Original Song
2006 Siedah Garrett Original Song
1972 Lonne Elder III Adapted Screeplay
1984 Charles Fuller Adapted Screeplay
1972 Suzzanne de Passé Original Screenplay
1989 Spike Lee Original Screenplay
1991 John Singleton Original Screenplay

I left off the technical awards like Costume, Cinemetography, Short Film, and Documentary.

For the past 20 years, Blacks have definitely been represented at the Oscars. I don't think it's fair to accuse the academy of cheating blacks out of awards because of their color.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

Granting amnesty and changing attitudes are two differnt things, and what this guy wrote has nothing to do with racism.
It's been a nice topic.

Actually, his 'amnesty' has everything to do with changing attitudes. Think about it. ;)

[Homegirl 50]

I never said we were not represented. My point was they gave the award fro that trash, for what they thought was ar. That does us no favors. I couldn't care less what Hollyweird thinks of anything.
Anyway, it' been a nice dicussion, but I'm rather out done by it. As a black person who does not use the word, who lived during a time when it was used all the time and it was OK, and we had no recourse against it, I don't undertsand why it is a problem. I'll admit there seem to be a double standard (and I say that because the word is still being used, it's just that when it is used by people in the public eye it draws attention) but like I said unless it is a word you use, or an attitude you have, I don't undertstand why it would even concern you.

[Homegirl 50]

Actually, his 'amnesty' has everything to do with changing attitudes. Think about it. ;)

You'll have to explain that one to me, because I'm not getting it. His proclamation IMO is a crock.

[speechlesstx]

but like I said unless it is a word you use, or an attitude you have, I don't undertstand why it would even concern you.

It's simple, we're ready for it to go away, too, so we can just be friends and neighbors.

[Homegirl 50]

It's simple, we're ready for it to go away, too, so we can just be friends and neighbors.

Many of us are friends and neighbors, some even family members and if nobody uses it, it will eventually go away, but I doubt that would happen. Like I said before, that word is used a lot but you don't hear about it unless it is someone in the public eye using it. There are people who are used to saying what ever they want and don't want to be told there are things they can't say or shouldn't. I have heard people use the word and think nothing of the act that I heard them. Racism is still alive and well. People just can't be as flagrant with it.

[s_cianci]

but I'm still not understanding why some white folk get upset about not being able to call black folk that. If you don't think that way or use the word yourself, what's the problem?

The problem is that it's such an ugly, horrid word that we don't want anybody using it, whether it be black on black, white on black or whoever on whoever. And you're not one of them but if you've been reading through the posts on this thread you'll see that a number of respondents have suggested that it's OK for members of given racial or ethnic groups to call each other derogatory words which refer to the group in question ; blacks calling each other the N word, Germans calling each other "kraut", etc. But as long as that mentality exists we'll never be able to rid ourselves of the use of such words in what's supposed to be an advanced, civil society. And for one to say that one dislikes such words but then to shrug one's shoulders and say "Who cares, why get upset, as long as I don't like it and don't want to use it?" sounds like a bit of doubletalk and missing the forest for the trees. If you detest the word as much as you suggest you do then you need to hop on that same bandwagon and protest the use of it by anyone towards anyone and denounce those who feel it's OK to use it, even if such belief is limited to within a particular homogeneous group. Otherwise you're defeating your own purpose.

[Homegirl 50]

I have no problem with that, and do denounce those who use it within my own race. I agree with you, I just don't understand what white people's beef is. They started the word and many of them still use it. I think they have a lot of nerve to be outraged and cry double standard.
But I do understand what you are saying.