Check out some similar questions!

excon · Dec 12, 2007, 10:46 AM

Hello again:

If I didn't think I could change peoples minds, I'd leave.

excon

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 10:47 AM

Yes, Jillian there are some very nice and open minded people from all backgrounds and walks of life. I did not say that "participating in these conversations has never gotten through to some." However, I don't believe the people that we see so deeply entrenched in their beliefs, the ones who become openly upset/annoyed on the boards here, are willing, or open, to listening/learning other viewpoints. Maybe you and I are thinking of different members.

michealb · Dec 12, 2007, 10:50 AM

The lack of a true chruch of athiestism is one of the reasons the other religions can take hold so easly. People are always stronger with a group opinion than as a lone voice in the crowd. Think how many more people might be athiests if we had a church. If we went door to door on Sunday morining talking about how good it is not to believe, of course we can't promise eternal life in heaven but we can at least be certain that we deliver on the promises we make. Maybe with the forums of the internet are our church, by pointing out the bad logic and intolerances of the other religions we gain members. We may not convice the ones that post but for every one person that posts probably ten read what is written.

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2007, 10:52 AM

Well there is always the FSM.

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:
If I didn't think I could change peoples minds, I'd leave.
excon

I know you think you can change peoples minds excon. You have to look at your complete audience. There are times I have noticed that some people think they can completely change the minds of people who are entrenched in "whatever". Ain't going to happen. All that happens is everyone's frustration levels increase and then snide, condescending, or demeanings comments are bandied about. Why do that? Why allow someone on a web site to be in control of your emotions?

jillianleab · Dec 12, 2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Yes, Jillian there are some very nice and open minded people from all backgrounds and walks of life. I did not say that "participating in these conversations has never gotten through to some." However, I don't believe the people that we see so deeply entrenched in their beliefs, the ones who become openly upset/annoyed on the boards here, are willing, or open, to listening/learning other viewpoints. Maybe you and I are thinking of different members.

Certainly there are those who aren't going to change their minds at all. I know I get wrapped up in debate with some of them, but those aren't the ones I enjoy speaking to. Actually, I've taken to putting some of them on my "ignore" list because I figure there's no point in conversing with someone who is unwavering in every opinion. I fully accept I might be on a few "ignore" lists too!

Why allow someone on a web site to be in control of your emotions?

Ugh. You have NO IDEA how irritated I get when I realize some schmuck on the intertubes said something that makes me angry and think about it after logging off the site! That realization is usually enough to make me get over it!

excon · Dec 12, 2007, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Why allow someone on a web site to be in control of your emotions?

Hello again, Ruby:

I have no investment in them. In fact, I believe I respond logically - not emotionally. And I'm quite happy to let them live in ignorance if they don't get it.

However, if I've changed ONE mind in the 10 years I've been doing this, then it's been worth it.

excon

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by excon

In fact, I believe I respond logically - not emotionally.
excon

Really? I guess I will have to go back and reread many of your posts. Although they are logical, they have not struck me as devoid of emotional response.;)

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Well there is always the FSM.

NK, please keep the proselytizing out of this thread. :D hehe.

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by jillianleab

Ugh. You have NO IDEA how irritated I get when I realize some schmuck on the intertubes said something that makes me angry and think about it after logging off the site! That realization is usually enough to make me get over it!

It took me a good few months to realize that I was allowing myself to have that same knee jerk reaction. And for the most part, I have reorganized my train of thought to not allow them to bait me.

Most of us on this thread have all been the victims of a "certain" troll lately. He is very calm and likes to see you all get bent out of shape. Don't let him do it to you.;)

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2007, 11:20 AM

NK, please keep the proselytizing out of this thread.

hehe.

Roger that. I was going to show up at your door with pamphlets and stuff but no longer.

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 11:24 AM

Oh you are most welcome to do that. As long as you don't mind my pitbull greeting you. Is it okay to invite you in for a good homemade spaghetti & meatball dish?

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2007, 11:29 AM

Partaking of the pasta is considered good form.. and tasty!

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by michealb

The lack of a true chruch of athiestism is one of the reasons the other religions can take hold so easly. People are always stronger with a group opinion than as a lone voice in the crowd. Think how many more people might be athiests if we had a church. If we went door to door on Sunday morining talking about how good it is not to believe, of course we can't promise eternal life in heaven but we can at least be certain that we deliver on the promises we make. Maybe with the forums of the internet are our church, by pointing out the bad logic and intolerances of the other religions we gain members. We may not convice the ones that post but for every one person that posts probably ten read what is written.

There is much wisdom in what you have written here michealb.

I think if the atheists on this web site can manage to not allow the more fervently religious to upset them with their posts, you might get more people who are on the outside looking in, to read through a thread and see who is more logical and rational. That would get through loud and clear to those more open and willing to learn and listen.

RubyPitbull · Dec 12, 2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Partaking of the pasta is considered good form..and tasty!

Good to know. My pitbull awaits you.

NeedKarma · Dec 12, 2007, 11:33 AM

Not a dog person, sorry.

firmbeliever · Dec 12, 2007, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by jillianleab

As far as people leaving the site, I actually don't like to see that happen, unless they've been abusive (in which case they might get banned). There was a woman on here a while ago, and for the life of me I can't remember her name, but she was very sweet, and very open to hearing other people's opinions. Haven't seen her in MONTHS and that's a shame. The conversations she participated in weren't about trying to change her beliefs, but seeing what other people thought, and teaching them about her own belief. firmbeliever is another of those - I haven't seen her in a while, and that's a shame.

Hey Jill,
Thanks for your compliments about my Atheist question thread... :p
I am still around,just not as much as I like to be... :rolleyes: .

About what excon said,maybe there are no organisations of atheists that I personally know of...
But I do know atheists who try to convince people that their way of thinking is right,by finding materials,reading or viewing and providing it to their friends or associates.
I think such behaviour is what atheists accuse religion followers of doing,but some atheists follow the same behaiour knowingly or unknowingly.

I guess it is human nature to have this need to help others see our own views as we think it is the right one. I know for a fact that I like to help others understand what I believe in as I believe it is the truth.

jillianleab · Dec 12, 2007, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Hey Jill,
Thanks for your compliments about my Atheist question thread... :p
I am still around,just not as much as I like to be... :rolleyes: .

Good to see you again! :)

I guess it is human nature to have this need to help others see our own views as we think it is the right one. I know for a fact that I like to help others understand what I believe in as I believe it is the truth.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Everyone want to be right - everyone thinks if others followed their way of thinking, the world would be a better place (forgive the broad generalization, but I think you get what I mean). It's also a problem when topics which people are so passionate about come up; abortion for one - a pro-choicer and pro-lifer can argue all day long and never get anywhere, but what both usually want is to be HEARD, for their side to be ACKNOWLEDGED. If you feel you have been heard, it's easier to agree to disagree and move on.

Choux · Dec 13, 2007, 12:33 PM

Hi excon,

I didn't get a chance to read the thread, but I offer the following. There are a couple of good secular humanist organizations and organizations for skeptics. I am a supporter of one organization headed by Paul Kurtz, a very well respected man.

Atheists think for themselves, they are the more intelligent and educated members of American society... and as a result, they have different opinions on just about every subject! It would be difficult to have one large atheist organization because just about all they support is that... they are not believers in the supernatural.

If you want some names of secular organizations, contact me privately. It really feels good to be part of such positive organizations with such positive agendas for humanity.

inthebox · Dec 13, 2007, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Ruby:

I have no investment in them. In fact, I believe I respond logically - not emotionally. And I'm quite happy to let them live in ignorance if they don't get it.

However, if I've changed ONE mind in the 10 years I've been doing this, then it's been worth it.

excon

Because of you, I have changed my mind on marijuana.

You stated one time that it has not caused a death.

I could not believe that, but

I searched the internet, the cdc, morbidity and mortality reports, pub med, could not find one article with marijuana as the only cause of death.

Just to let you know ;)