[excon]

Hello:

We're not like other countries. We don't put our X presidents in jail. Or, at least we haven't been like other countries until now. We didn’t torture people, for example. In fact, we were once proud of that. Now we lie about it, like everybody else does. Our humanity is gone. Poof. A couple hundred years building our reputation and it’s gone in an instant. Now we're just like them.

George did that. So, I'll wager that he's going to be the first president that we throw in the slammer. I believe, that once he's gone, and that once we find out what he REALLY did, we'll put him away.

Yeah, I think he's that bad.

excon

[RickJ]

I'll take you up on that wager and give you 10 to 1.

[RickJ]

You're on :)

[magprob]

House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill

The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed HR 1955 titled the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. This bill is one of the most blatant attacks against the Constitution yet and actually defines thought crimes as homegrown terrorism. If passed into law, it will also establish a commission and a Center of Excellence to study and defeat so called thought criminals. Unlike previous anti-terror legislation, this bill specifically targets the civilian population of the United States and uses vague language to define homegrown terrorism. Amazingly, 404 of our elected representatives from both the Democrat and Republican parties voted in favor of this bill. There is little doubt that this bill is specifically targeting the growing patriot community that is demanding the restoration of the Constitution.

[Dark_crow]

House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill

The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed HR 1955 titled the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. This bill is one of the most blatant attacks against the Constitution yet and actually defines thought crimes as homegrown terrorism. If passed into law, it will also establish a commission and a Center of Excellence to study and defeat so called thought criminals. Unlike previous anti-terror legislation, this bill specifically targets the civilian population of the United States and uses vague language to define homegrown terrorism. Amazingly, 404 of our elected representatives from both the Democrat and Republican parties voted in favor of this bill. There is little doubt that this bill is specifically targeting the growing patriot community that is demanding the restoration of the Constitution.

This is nothing new; it’s always been a crime for citizens of a government to plot the over through of that government, and it has always been a crime to commit or excite others to violence against that government.

[magprob]

You keep minimizing and generalizing everything when the Devil is in the details. You are brain washed into thinking you are intelligent by the schools that are funded by these very people.

[inthebox]

Hello:

We're not like other countries. We don't put our X presidents in jail. Or, at least we haven't been like other countries until now. We didn't torture people, for example. In fact, we were once proud of that. Now we lie about it, like everybody else does. Our humanity is gone. Poof. A couple hundred years building our reputation and it's gone in an instant. Now we're just like them.

George did that. So, I'll wager that he's gonna be the first president that we throw in the slammer. I believe, that once he's gone, and that once we find out what he REALLY did, we'll put him away.

Yeah, I think he's that bad.

excon

Is not slavery a form of torture?

Where was "humanity" with the Japanese internment during WW2?

Where was the "humanity" in this country's dealing with the American Indians?

This country was far from pure and pristine and then all of a sudden, according to your statements, President Bush changed all that.

And which "them" are you talking about?
The ones beheading hostages ?
The ones blowing themselves up in public places killing people?





Grace and Peace

[tomder55]

History tends to treat Presidents better after they leave office . I see a Trumanesque turnaround in GWB's future.

[tomder55]

Magprob

Re : HR 1955

This bill passed the House on 10/23 404 to 6. The only Nay votes were Abercrombie Costello Duncan Flake Kucinich Rohrabacher

It's the same with all those guys driving around with "9/11 Was An Inside Job" bumper stickers. That aligns reality with every conspiracy movie from the past three decades: It's always the government who did it – sometimes it's some supersecret agency working deep within the bureaucracy from behind an unassuming nameplate on a Washington street; and sometimes it's the president himself – but when poor Joe Schmoe on the lam from the Feds eventually unravels it, the cunning conspiracy is always the work of a ruthlessly efficient all-powerful state. So Iraq is Vietnam. And 9/11 is the Kennedy assassination, with ever higher percentages of the American people gathering on the melted steely knoll.

There's a kind of decadence about all this: If 9/11 was really an inside job, you wouldn't be driving around with a bumper sticker bragging that you were on to it. Fantasy is a by-product of security

Opinion: War, and life, is not a movie | one, iraq, ey, reynolds, burt - OCRegister.com

[labman]

I am sure if we elect a Democratic president and congress, we will see no end of Scooter Libby style witch hunts. Stopping the world caliphate will return to the bottom of our priorities.

[excon]

a Democratic president and congress, we will see no end of Scooter Libby style witch hunts. Stopping the world caliphate will return to the bottom of our priorities.

Hello labman:

Hopefully, you're right. Restoring the Constitution WILL be a priority.

By the way, if stopping the terrorists is at the TOP of Bush's priority list, why is Ben Laden sitting fat and happy in Pakistan?? He's building bases and training people and stuff... What do you think he's training them to do?? Why is your fearless leader letting that happen again??

Maybe you can splain it to me.

excon

PS> So, if lying to the grand jury is cool, then it would be cool if I did it too, right?? Or anybody?? Or is it only cool if Republicans do it?? Maybe you can splain that too.

You guy's are the law and order party?? Bwa ha ha ha ha.

[labman]

Last I heard Pakistan was a sovereign country. George Bush gets little credit for his huge accomplishments in getting all the cooperation out of them and other Islamic countries he has.

So what was Libby doing in front of a grand jury when the prosecuter already knew somebody else was guilty? And maybe the other guy was the one that lied.

[excon]

Hello again, labman:

I just want to make sure I understand your law and order mentality. So, you're saying its OK to lie if you think the prosecutor has made a mistake?? Or is only OK to lie if somebody ELSE committed the crime, and you know about it?? Or is it OK to lie to a Grand Jury if the other guy lied too?? What if the prosecutor is being vindictive and mean, is it OK to lie then??

When is it OK to lie to a Grand Jury?? Sometimes?? I want to know.

I have personally been in both of those situations. So, I should have lied and it would have been OK with you?

Somehow, I think not. I'm sure you'll say that in MY case, I shouldn't have been able to make the same determinations that Libby did?? Only Republicans can do that.

I understand now.

excon

[speechlesstx]

House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill

The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed HR 1955 titled the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. This bill is one of the most blatant attacks against the Constitution yet and actually defines thought crimes as homegrown terrorism. If passed into law, it will also establish a commission and a Center of Excellence to study and defeat so called thought criminals. Unlike previous anti-terror legislation, this bill specifically targets the civilian population of the United States and uses vague language to define homegrown terrorism. Amazingly, 404 of our elected representatives from both the Democrat and Republican parties voted in favor of this bill. There is little doubt that this bill is specifically targeting the growing patriot community that is demanding the restoration of the Constitution.

Someone's going to have to explain what I'm missing here, because after reading the bill all I see is providing for the establishment of the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism, a study group. I didn't see the thought police in there... at least not yet.

[ETWolverine]

First of all, Bush ain't going to jail. Ain't going to happen. He hasn't committed any crimes. If he had, you can bet that the Dems would be trying to impeach him. They can't because he didn't do anything wrong. No crime, no time.

Second, do you seriously believe that no torture of POWs took place under FDR and Truman during WWII? FDR put our own citizens of Japanese decent in friggin' detension camps for years. Do you really think that FDR wouldn't be okay with looking the other way on torture of POWs? Do you really think that German POWs were so well treated? We treated them better than they treated our POWs, but that's not saying a heck of a lot, considering some of the "scientific" experiments that the Nazis performed on prisoners. ANYTHING would have been better treatment than that. But don't fool yourself into thinking that we have always treated our captured prisoners with such wonderful care... or that we atually gave a crap about them.

How many Indians were tortured for information on the whereabouts of their tribesmen during our conquest of the West? How many Mexican prisoners were tortured for information on the wherabouts of Santa Anna after the Alamo fell? How well were the Confederate soldiers treated by their Union counterparts, and vice versa? (Keep in mind that Lincoln actually jailed part of the Senate when they wouldn't go along with his plans during the Civil War, and eliminated habeas corpus rights for the duration of the war. Torture wasn't nothing in the big picture.) How many Japanese and German and Italian soldiers were tortured for information about the plans of the Axis powers in WWII? How many North Korean regulars were tortured for information during the Korean War? How many VC, NG, VM, etc. were tortured by our "intelligence specialists" during the Vietnam War?

Stop being so naïve about our history, excon. The only difference between how Bush has run this war and how prior presidents have run prior wars is that the Dems are publishing this stuff in the media in a concerted effort to discredit Bush. Other than that, there is no difference between Bush and any other wartime president.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

Hello Ex,

If there was any credible reason to charge Bush with a crime it would have already been done. However, that won't stop the wackos from trying. Rumsfeld was slapped with a suit while he was in France:

Former US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's jaunt to France was interrupted today by an unscheduled itinerary item -- he was slapped with a criminal complaint charging him with torture.

Rumsfeld, in Paris for a discussion sponsored by the magazine Foreign Policy, was tracked down by representatives of a coalition of international human rights groups, who informed the architect of the US invasion of Iraq that they had submitted a torture suit against him in French court.

The filed documents allege that during his tenure, the former defense secretary "ordered and authorized" torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The head of one of the groups responsible for bringing the charges, the US-based Center for Constitutional Rights, told RAW STORY today by phone that the suit was a long time coming.

"We've been working on cornering Rumsfeld and getting him indicted somewhere going on three years now," said the Center's president, Michael Ratner. "Four days ago, we got confidential information he was going to be in France."

Joined by activists, attorneys for the human rights groups caught up with Rumsfeld on his way to a breakfast meeting. "He was walking down the street with just one person," said Ratner.

"Around 20 campaigners gave Rumsfeld a rowdy welcome...yelling 'murderer,' waving a banner and trying to push into the building," reports AFP.

Ratner, who wasn't personally at the scene, says his sources told him that the former defense secretary made some pre-scheduled remarks at the meeting before ducking through a door leading to the US Embassy.

According to Ratner, France has a legal responsibility under international law to prosecute Rumsfeld for torture abuses.

"If a torturer comes into your territory," he said, "there's an obligation to either prosecute the person or return him to a place where he will be prosecuted."

Surely you'll recall some other nutcases attempted to charge Bush with torture in Canada in 2004. So even though I find it highly unlikely Bush and co. will go to prison for anything here, you can bet people are going to keep trying one way or another.

[excon]

If there was any credible reason to charge Bush with a crime it would have already been done. However, that won't stop the wackos from trying.

Hello Steve:

I agree. So far there isn't any evidence of a crime. But, the only reason we DON'T know anything yet, is because he's defying the subpoena issued by congress – which I believe itself is a crime.

Even though at this point in time, there's no evidence, there's a whole lot of speculation. I'm the chief speculator, and I can't wait. I don't believe he'll be able to keep his secrets after he's out of office. We ARE going to find out stuff.

Now, it IS possible that he didn't break any laws. I spose…. But, I actually think we'll be blown away by the things he did. Will they prosecute him?? Nahhh - I don't think so. The Dems don't have any balls.

And, for the record. I don't want to go after George Bush because I'm vindictive. I don't personally give a damn about him. I believe, however, that it's going to be the ONLY way to restore the Constitution and our reputation in the world.

excon - AKA, wacko

[speechlesstx]

Hello Steve:

I agree. So far there isn't any evidence of a crime. But, the only reason we DON'T know anything yet, is because he's defying the subpoenas issues by congress – which I believe itself is a crime.

Even though at this point in time, there’s no evidence, there's a whole lot of speculation. I'm the chief speculator, and I can’t wait. I don't believe he'll be able to keep his secrets after he's out of office. We ARE going to find out stuff.

Now, it IS possible that he didn't break any laws. I spose…. But, I actually think we'll be blown away by the things he did. Will they prosecute him???? Nahhh - I don't think so. The Dems don't have any balls.

And, for the record. I don't want to go after George Bush because I'm vindictive. I don't personally give a damn about him. I believe, however, that it's going to be the ONLY way to restore the Constitution and our reputation in the world.

excon - AKA, wacko

Ex, I don't think you're a wacko, I believe you're a sincere guy. Wackos are those that are so obsessed with Bush they can't function normally. Wackos are those that carry clocks counting down to Bush's last day in office. Wackos are those that in spite of all indications - including a current presidential campaign (and probably while carrying a backward Bush clock) - still spout fears of Bush's impending theocracy with him as pastor-in-chief. Wackos are those still saying 9-11 was an inside job and demanding Bush be impeached, evidence or not. Wackos are those that consider Bush more of a threat than all the Jihadists combined, that wear Che Guevara t-shirts, buddy up with Castro and Chavez and proclaim how evil America is while whining about their loss of rights - and can't see the irony in that.