[deist]

"Lean not on thine own understanding", Prov. 3: 5. What does this mean but do not think for yourselves ? If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have made all the progress we have, automobiles, air travel, space flight, modern medicine, the internet. We'd all still be in the dark ages if we didn't lean on our own understanding. If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have these computers that we all find so useful that you all apparently like to use.

[Clough]

"Lean not on thine own understanding", Prov. 3: 5. What does this mean but do not think for yourselves ? If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have made all the progress we have, automobiles, air travel, space flight, modern medicine, the internet. We'd all still be in the dark ages if we didn't lean on our own understanding. If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have these computers that we all find so useful that you all apparently like to use.

The whole Proverb is the following, and the exact English words used do depend on which translation of the Bible that you use. But basically, the meaning is the same. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

If you post only half of the Proverb, as you have done, rather than posting the whole thing, and also without considering the whole Proverb and the context surrounding it, then it might cause a person to want to interpret that it means something other than that which are concerns of faith and salvation, such as you have. The Proverb has nothing to do with the material things of this world that you mention.

Please see the following site for more information.

Proverbs Chapter 3

The following is a quote from that same site.

Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” This is now the third time “heart” has been mentioned in this chapter. Head faith is not a saving faith, but a heart belief is, (Rom. 10:9-10), for it is a trust in the Lord; i.e. a dependence upon Him to save. “He guards against his recommendation of 'good understanding' in verse 4 being perverted into a ground for self-reliance,” [Faussett]. This is to be a total trust “with all thine heart.” Divided hearts are faulty in their faith toward God, (Hosea 10:2). Hence, David prayed for his heart to be united to fear the Lord, (Ps. 86:11-12). This, however, does not apply solely to salvation, for many heresies have been brought in because men tried to reason out doctrinal truth—leaning unto their own wisdom—instead of simply believing God's Word in all that it says.

[deist]

The whole Proverb is the following, and the exact English words used do depend on which translation of the Bible that you use. But basically, the meaning is the same. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

If you post only half of the Proverb, as you have done, rather than posting the whole thing, and also without considering the whole Proverb and the context surrounding it, then it might cause a person to want to interpret that it means something other than that which are concerns of faith and salvation, such as you have. The Proverb has nothing to do with the material things of this world that you mention.

Please see the following site for more information.

Proverbs Chapter 3

The following is a quote from that same site.

Heart & mind in the bible is often interchangeable, for example, Prov. 23: 7. In fact, the Hebrew word (leb) translated heart in 3:5 can be translated as mind according to James Strong. The word nephesh translated heart in 23: 7 can also be translated as mind according to Strong. This coupled with "understanding" in 3: 5 (Heb. Biynah, meaning knowledge, wisdom) shows that the context is talking about the mind, & by extension the thinking process. Trust in the Lord with all thy mind (thy thinking), & lean not on thine own understanding (knowledge). In other words, don't think for yourself, don't trust your own knowledge. This is a formula for brainwashing.

[Clough]

That's nice. So... what is your point, please?

[deist]

That's nice. So... what is your point, please?

Think for yourself, don't let a single book do all your thinking for you. Question, reason, don't take anything on pure faith.

[Clough]

Think for yourself, don't let a single book do all your thinking for you. Question, reason, don't take anything on pure faith.

Again, that's nice! Thank you for clarification as to what your point is and revealing more as to what you are about here.

I am very well-read, and I certainly do think for myself. Thank you!

Also, I take exception to you being so assuming and presumptuous as to what I or anyone else, for that matter, needs. If you don't mind my saying, I think that you need to take a look at yourself before pointing your finger at others with your opinions.

[NeedKarma]

deist,
I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others. You sound like a bittter person that needs to overcome something. Currently you're no better that the JW that go door to door trying to convert and we all know how annoying that is.

[deist]

deist,
I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others. You sound like a bittter person that needs to overcome something. Currently you're no better that the JW that go door to door trying to convert and we all know how annoying that is.

You're doing the same thing I'm doing, trying to reason with these people. I read all your posts, & I don't see what you're doing any different from me.

[MoonlitWaves]

Think for yourself, don't let a single book do all your thinking for you. Question, reason, don't take anything on pure faith.

You say this as if no one did use reason or question other things. There are other choices out there besides Christianity, which means there are reasons Christans believe what they do. Just as you have reasons you don't. Come on deist, think about it! How is the way you came about your belief any different than mine?

The only way to find God/Truth is to seek Him out. Therefore you aren't just taking things as they are. You are seeking it, and through God you will find it. We are incapable of understanding all that is God, but He gives us what we need to know until we are of perfect mind. It is because of the Spirit that you gain true understanding of God's Word not because of your mind alone. I know this for fact. I thought I knew things before I was saved, but after I became saved and studied with the Spirit in me I found out real quick that I knew nothing. You gain an understanding that you never could have on your own. Hence "lean not on thine own understanding."
Besides this verse is about understanding spiritually. The progress you spoke of is by worldly understanding.

[Choux]

Deist, you have to consider that the Old Testament was was written from a mind set of almost total ignorance and illiteracy compared to the world of knowledge we have today(medicine, techonology, everything). Greeks, the pagans, had the beginnings of knowledge and education... math, philosophy, political science...

Religious teaching is how some of the people consoled themselves, and they used GodAlmighty as a repository of all knowledge not revealed... it is like how some people console themselves today by saying that everything happens for a reason. It is reassuring to the person to think that a benevolent force is in charge. Having a comfortable and satisfying place to rest from the suffering and demands of life. :):):)

We do have to give humankind the credit for all the discoveries and advancements that have changed the world primarily in the last 150 years. It's truly amazing! :):):)

[Homegirl 50]

Trusting in God has nothing to do with not thinking for yourself. Lean not on your on understanding means you must put your faith in God, not in yourself , that you acknowledge God, put him first and he will keep you on the right path.
If God did not want us to use our brains, He would not have given us one. He wants us to put Him first, don't rely so much on our own strength that we forget it all comes from Him and leave Him out of our lives completely.
Of course if you don't believe, this means nothing to you and I can't imagine why you would ask to begin with, except maybe to try and bait people into arguments with you.

[savedsinner7]

Who or what church offended you so deeply that you hate Christians and what we stand for?

You're doing the exact same thing I'm doing, trying to reason with these people. I read all your posts, & I don't see what you're doing any different from me.

[deist]

Deist, you have to consider that the Old Testament was was written from a mind set of almost total ignorance and illiteracy compared to the world of knowledge we have today(medicine, techonology, everything). Greeks, the pagans, had the beginnings of knowledge and education...math, philosophy, political science.....

Religious teaching is how some of the people consoled themselves, and they used GodAlmighty as a repository of all knowledge not revealed.....it is like how some people console themselves today by saying that everything happens for a reason. It is reassuring to the person to think that a benevolent force is in charge. Having a comfortable and satisfying place to rest from the suffering and demands of life. :):):)

We do have to give humankind the credit for all the discoveries and advancements that have changed the world primarily in the last 150 years. It's truly amazing! :):):)

I agree with everything you said.

[Homegirl 50]

It seems to me, if you don't believe, if you think it's foolish then that is your right. Why then does other's belief bother you so much?
I find it comical when people spend so much time downing Christianity. It means it's on their mind an awful lot. I don't spend anytime thinking about Atheist. I don't argue with them or even have discussions with them unless they approach me.
If you believe "to each his own" then leave Christians alone.

[Clough]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Deist,
I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others. You sound like a bittter person that needs to overcome something. Currently you're no better that the JW that go door to door trying to convert and we all know how annoying that is.

You're doing the same thing I'm doing, trying to reason with these people. I read all your posts, & I don't see what you're doing any different from me.

NeedKarma calls it like he sees it on a case-by-case basis, really on whatever subject might be the concern. I don't see where, in his statement above in this particular thread, especially "I'm not a big fan of organized religion either but I don't go on the attack to bait others." has anything to do with reasoning with anybody else on this particular thread, other than you.

[deist]

It seems to me, if you don't believe, if you think it's foolish then that is your right. Why then does other's belief bother you so much?
I find it comical when people spend so much time downing Christianity. It means it's on their mind an awful lot. I don't spend anytime thinking about Atheist. I don't argue with them or even have discussions with them unless they approach me.
If you believe "to each his own" then leave Christians alone.

Have you heard of the christian reconstructionists ? They have infiltrated politics, government, & the far right. Their agenda is to turn America into a totalitarian theocracy where all the moral laws of the Old Testament will be the only rule of law, including the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, unruly children, & idolaters (they consider even other christians idolaters who are not reconstructionist). They are backed by many evangelical churches in America. So I do this is as my own little attempt in my own way to fight against the reconstructionists. As I said they are backed by evangelical churches, & such pastors as D. James Kennedy & Jerry Falwell (who even though they're dead now they still have many followers). Most christians in America are evangelical, so for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement.

[NeedKarma]

For more insight on what deist says please watch "The Power of Nightmares". A great BBC documentary available here: Power of Nightmares - Google Video

[savedsinner7]

I am Christian and not part of this movement. Don't assume.

Have you heard of the christian reconstructionists ? They have infiltrated politics, government, & the far right. Their agenda is to turn America into a totalitarian theocracy where all the moral laws of the Old Testament will be the only rule of law, including the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, unruly children, & idolaters (they consider even other christians idolaters who are not reconstructionist). They are backed by many evangelical churches in America. So I do this is as my own little attempt in my own way to fight against the reconstructionists. As I said they are backed by evangelical churches, & such pastors as D. James Kennedy & Jerry Falwell (who even though they're dead now they still have many followers). Most christians in America are evangelical, so for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement.

[silentrascal]

"Lean not on thine own understanding", Prov. 3: 5. What does this mean but do not think for yourselves ? If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have made all the progress we have, automobiles, air travel, space flight, modern medicine, the internet. We'd all still be in the dark ages if we didn't lean on our own understanding. If we didn't lean on our own understanding we wouldn't have these computers that we all find so useful that you all apparently like to use.

Basically, it admonishes us to turn to God for guidance and direction in our lives in order to be truly successful. Man was not created with the ability to rule over himself or to direct his own way in life successfully apart from God. Jeremiah 10:23 states that very clearly. Man was created with a spiritual need, a need to worship, and a need to be led by his Creator. Since the rebellion in Eden, man is born with imperfection and sinful tendencies, meaning that his inclination with his own understanding is towards wrong decisions. By making use of God's "guidebook" for us, the Bible, we can make the proper decisions in life that will make us truly happy and will help our relationship with God to grow and deepen.

[mountain_man]

Have you heard of the christian reconstructionists ? They have infiltrated politics, government, & the far right. Their agenda is to turn America into a totalitarian theocracy where all the moral laws of the Old Testament will be the only rule of law, including the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, unruly children, & idolaters (they consider even other christians idolaters who are not reconstructionist). They are backed by many evangelical churches in America. So I do this is as my own little attempt in my own way to fight against the reconstructionists. As I said they are backed by evangelical churches, & such pastors as D. James Kennedy & Jerry Falwell (who even though they're dead now they still have many followers). Most christians in America are evangelical, so for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement.

Your responses make you sound like a paranoid, conspirarcy theorist. Is this true?

Your statement "Most christians in America are evangelical, so for all I know every christian on here is a part of the reconstructionist movement" is in my opinion not accurate and is not a proved fact but again another paranoia. You are so WAY off base by every bit of this response that I question why I am even typing a response to this now...