[kimr5]

We installed new tongue and groove engineered 5/8" hardwood flooring in our kitchen this spring. I was hesitant because I didn't know how the wood would hold up in a kitchen, but we were going for a rustic look. The flooring guy at Home Depot said the hardwood would hold up just as well or better than the laminate options and we liked the look alot more. As far as I know, we did everything right. We replaced almost all of the plywood subfloor and even some of the floor boards. We bought a hardwood floor nailer and air compressor and nailed them hard and tight against each other. We also left 1/2" gap around the perimeter.

I know that hardwood expands and contracts, but that's not what this is. We had a hard time eliminating the gaps during installation because the tongue and groove didn't want to fit together very well. We spent a lot of time getting each piece to fit well. We have gone through spring, summer and now into fall and the gaps still remain. I would say it wasn't even a month after installing that we started noticing the gaps getting wider. Now you can see where dirt falls through the cracks.

My questions are can this be fixed and how - and how do you clean the floor without moisture damage to the floor and subfloor? Even though it was prefinished should we go over it with some kind of sealer? Even then I don't think the gaps would be sealed. We are completely depressed because we spent a lot of time getting it perfect. To add insult to injury, anything and everything seems to dent the floor. Of course, when we moved the fridge back it left huge gouges in the wood, even with furniture sliders and cardboard. It did not penetrate the finish but the gouges are deep. Is there any way to repair these? I think it would look too obvious to use wood filler. Should I try to find some kind of poly that would fill the gouges and still somewhat match the finish? I did hear that moisture, a towel and a hot iron might raise up the wood fibers, but it didn't seem to work on the sample piece I tried. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Also, the planks are solid wood with a cherry walnut type pre-finish.

Thanks,
Kim

[michealb]

Generally real wood floors get glued together not just nailed. The glue is what keeps the water out and fills in the gaps. To fix it if this step wasn't done I guess you would have to pull the whole floor up and redo it. Hopefully someone else will give you an answer you want to hear but I can't think one.

[michealb]

Oh and never trust the employees at the hardware store they have no idea.

[ballengerb1]

Sorry about your situation Kim. I think that your wood was not 100% acclimated to your home when it was installed. Engineered wood is usually pretty good but it could have been far more moist than the house. Well its down now and lets try to make the best of it. First off don't believe everything the guys at HD tell you. They probably never put down a floor in their lives and only had minimal training in sales. My laminate is warranted for 50 years, what did HD offer for your warranty? The cracks can be filler with a floor filler just like they do when installing unfished solid wood floor. A very, very light sanding to level the filler and scuff the factory finish and then coat with two coats of good floor polyurethane. I would try the wet towel and hot iron several times before the new finish is applied if you want to improve that dent. After each attempt seal a 1' x1' araea with Saran wrap and duct tape to seal in some of that moisture and the repeat the next day.

[ballengerb1]

Michael, who told you wood floors are glued and nailed?

[michealb]

Micheal, who told you wood floors are glued and nailed??

Who knows that's why I speak generally unless I'm certain on things. I always thought that glue was required for real wood floors. I've only ever personally done laminate flooring and tile. One of the reasons I mentioned that I hoped someone would have a better answer for her.

[kimr5]

Wow, you guys are quick!

Ok, let's see. I'm going to go try to find the manufacturer's instructions, but I'm pretty sure they said to nail them down. I'll also attach a picture shortly so you can see what material it is. We did make sure to acclimate the wood. The boxes were down in our basement (with dehumidifier) for a month or two, but we brought them up and sat them in the living room next to the kitchen for at least a week.

As far as refinishing them or sanding them down we might have a little problem. While it is solid wood, it is "distressed". The floors are smooth and the finish is solid, but there are small ridges that run horizontally with the length of the wood. We would have to sand down quite a bit to get them smooth, and then we wouldn't have the distressed finish anymore. I'm afraid any kind of product I try will vary so much from the finish that was applied by the manufacturer. Of course, the gouges are smack dab in the middle of the kitchen, so filling them would look pretty obvious.

I'm going to take some pictures and get them uploaded. All I have right now are pictures of the installation. I'll add those and try to get some good pics of the damage.

Thanks everyone!

[ballengerb1]

Some laminates are glued, some snap together and 1 in 100 get nailed. Soild harwood and engineered hard wood are nailed through the tongue and groove into the floor. No glue but a colored filler is wiped into the cracks.

[ballengerb1]

Kim, just read your last post and I think that basment caused your problem. Dehumidifer or not its very likely more humid in the basement than the living area. This doesn't help with your cure but it explains what happened.

[kimr5]

Okay, here are a few pictures. The darker ones without the flash are closest to the actual color. Anyway, I found the instructions and they say this product can be glued down or nailed down. But it doesn't say anything about both. They also say to allow 24-72 hours for product to acclimate. There is a limited 25 year wear-through warranty (which does not apply to scratching), and a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects. Of course, they say that "scratches, gouges or indentations are not factory defects".

I suppose the basement could be part of the problem. I would actually have to check with my husband on how long the floor sat where. It was in the garage first, then we brought it into the basement, and then upstairs. It might not have been in the basement for very long, and I know it was upstairs for much longer than recommended. In any case, it's a total bummer!

Do you think I should fill all the gaps with wood filler and cover the whole floor in poly? What happens when the wood needs to expand again?

[Lowtax4eva]

Kim, just read your last post and I think that basment caused your problem. Dehumidifer or not its very likely more humid in the basement than the living area. this doesn't help with your cure but it explains what happened.

Added to the fact that installation was done in the spring which tends to be very humid...

I think your assumption is correct here.

[ballengerb1]

Great job with the pics, that scatch is a heart breaker and I doubt that it will ever go away 100%. Another thought would be to vac the dirt out of the cracks and trowel a hard wax into the cracks. It will keep out the dirt but over time will need maintenance. I'd go with a hard rubber towel and filler. Instead of sanding you can wipe down the filler with a terry rag dipped in spirts that will not harm the factory finish. You know the drill, test in an inconspicuous area first. If you are satisfied with the looks you can skip the poly. Fillers come in colors so find one that blends in.

[kimr5]

So will the wax allow for movement? Clearly I don't know much when it comes to hardwood.

We did install in the spring, but in Minnesota it's still pretty darn cold in March and April. I was trying to remember exactly when they were installed. It must have been pretty early because I remember my uncle coming to do our electrical after the floor was done and we were in the middle of a snow storm!

I'm guessing the gaps are here to stay, but I can try wax if you think that's my best bet.

Thanks again!

[glavine]

These look like 2 different floors. First the water and iron trick want work quite wasting time, the whole point of the finish on those floors is to prevent moisture for doing that. This method will only work on soft woods best such as pine... and pine, and it does work on some other like popular and oak but not as good,
The moisture must get to the grain to work which means it must get through the finish first,

Secondly, solid wood floors are always nailed or stapled not glued, they must move, however laminate floors can be glued or snap down,
Engineered floors can be glued or stapled, they have little movement in the boards
Ballangerb1 mentioned the floors need to acclumate to the house, this is correct and very important for these to set in your house for a few days before you lay them,

As for the pics above: the laminate floor has just been installed wrong, though it would be time consuming this can be fixed, you need to pull up all the floor that is affected, the bad thing about laminate is if there is a bad piece in the middle floor you'll have to pull all the floor up to this piece and replace it, same as the floor in the pic that isn't snaped together all the way. Take a few pieces and work on how they snap together, also cheaper laminate floors do not go together as well as the more expensive one do.
As for the 5/8 prefinished floor... that just sucks to be honest, all you can do here is take a skil saw and cut down the middle and you a chisel to remove the rest of it, once all the pieces that are bad are out reistall the new ones, you'll have to rip off the tongue on the last ones you install, and you'll also have to face nail the floor into place, fill these holes with prestained wood filler from minwax. They have many colors to match up with, and that color you have is one of them.
That is unfortunate that your floor dented like that, I'm going to guess the wheels on the frig didn't roll like they should.

Good luck hope any of this helps or cleared up any questions

[kimr5]

Thanks for all the info!

Yes, all the pictures are of the same floor - it's all hardwood tongue and groove, not laminate. The pics look so different because I took some with flash and some without. We also let the flooring acclimate, but as someone mentioned earlier, having it in the basement must have screwed it up, even if it was in the living room for a week or more.

We kind of assumed that if we wanted to replace any of the wood we would just have to cut through in the middle and try to do it the way you described. It's something we might try down the road, but we need to finish everything else first. We would just pull it up and start from the gouges, but it seemed like a smart idea at the time to install the flooring before the cabinets were in. Who knew? This floor has just been bad luck for us all around. We were so careful through the whole process to put towels under everything we set on the floor, including the step stool. Wouldn't you know the very last thing we had to do was move the fridge. We had a thick piece of cardboard under it, plus large furniture sliders under the wheels because it didn't seem like they were going to roll without digging in.

By the way, what do you think of the wax idea ballengerb1 mentioned? It seems like it might be worth a shot.

Thanks for your help!

[Rover88]

If you kept any of the extra flooring, you could use a router and chisel to cut out the affected (scratched) planks. Having done furniture touch-up professionally, I really doubt that you'll be able to get satisfactory removal of the depressions with steam. Since your floor was pre-finished, any leftover pieces should match.

[kimr5]

Thanks! We do have extra flooring, but were hoping to use it in the entry. I'm trying to convince my hubby that it's probably not such a good idea considering how the kitchen turned out! We probably will end up cutting out the bad pieces and replacing them, we just weren't sure exactly if it would work well losing the tongue and groove. I guess it can't get much worse than it already is!

Thanks again!

[backdatepuddlepup]

Wow! I do not work at 'hd' -- I am just a regular 'dg' (domestic goddess). HOWEVER, I HAVE put down my share of flooring. The wood I see in the picture is engineered (yes, it's 'solid' wood, but that's a 'bunch-o-wood' glued together! Yes, it's al wood -- and solid (if you don't count the minute air left between all the pieces! My past experience (which includes, putting in new, fixing old, and now installing laminiate upstairs in this house) has been that engineered wood is glued "down." the best glued result we ever got was when we glued it straight to some 1976 vinyl flooring that would have taken weeks to get up. It acted as a great water barrier from the slab -- next, we put some in right before they made the glue 'non-toxic.' that did pretty good, but not as good as the kitchen. Then when they made the glue 'better for us,' the floor always had pops and creeks where it came up (you had to drill a hole and shoot more glue down in the pop). This is the case UNLESS you have a wood floor made to specifically float -- then you nail! With solid-one-piece wood (like it came right from the tree!) -- again, check to see if you should glue it "down" or nail it to each other. The house I'm in now, the previous owner had a dishwasher leak and had it replaced (with a $5,000 insurance payment) with a almost matching (almost) bunch of scraps left from other jobs (he kept most of it, neighbors to talk). It was cheap, and had splintery places in the middle of the room, with not one piece being over a foot long! This is the dead giveaway. He saved all the end pieces of other jobs and used them here for a cheap, quick fix. They had already moved out and we didn't notice until it started denting, coming up, gapping, you name it! It is crap. Is that wood solid 'pieces?' if it is, it will dent, and if water gets through those cracks, it will "ripple." you can fill the spaces wood putty and stain it to match. With the gouges, you will have to play with them. I will think about this. You can always take out the effected boards, cut the 'tongue' off one and replace (ugh). We are adding to our wood floors (thanks to new dog), but I swear we are going to glue down some vinyl first! Lol. We are installing laminiate upstairs (as we speak). One guy told us it's all about how thick the "wood-looking-piece" is. Well, if that's the case, then why are so many different thicknesses? Because of this dog, we are sealing our laminate with an epoxy glue. Yes, we bought the old fashioned kind that doesn't 'click' together. We figured if we have to put something on it, we might as well get good stuff that has been marked down because the lock system is so much easier and is the big thing. The guy at 'hd' told us this was 'unnecessary' with the click/lock stuff. If this is the case, why do they sell a product called "click seal??" it is to seal out moisture that WILL get in if it sits there long enough! I also got my 'pad' at Lowe's. It is a house wrap. It is accordion folded, plastic sided, 4' by 50' and 1/4 inch of styrofoam -- at $35.00+/-! This takes away most of the sound we would get from people walking upstairs! Downstairs, it will give us a moister barrier (we are putting it on the slab in the master) and a nice pad so that it will not have that hollow, like-your-tapping-shoeing-on-your-laminiate-kitchen-counter sound. It's a 1,000 times better than any of the crap they wanted to sell us specifically for laminate! As far as upstairs, I'm not sure why you can't just use carpet padding!! Any takers on that one? At our other house, moister came up through the glue, and we could see the mold in the wood below the polyurethine (if you were looking for a reason to get out of using a moister barrier on your slab). But seems from the way you are talking, your house is pier and beam. With the peiced-solid wood, heavy things will most definitely mash it in. I wish I had a great answer. If I had built this house, I would have made sure they kept the concrete clean (they use it to spray paint trim) and I would have stained the concrete. :mad:

[backdatepuddlepup]

Boy, is that looooooooong, sorry.. .

[kimr5]

Thanks for your input! Yes, the wood is solid and we already have many dents in addition to the gouges. Definitely not happy with the outcome of this project. Between the dents, the gouges and the gaps it's not looking too good. If I had it to do all over again I would definitely choose a different product. I thought since it was prefinished we wouldn't have to worry about spills or anything damaging the wood. I never realized how much space would be left between each plank. The tongue and groove never really seemed to go together very tightly. We spent a lot of time fitting different pieces together to get the tightest fit possible. Then we hoped once we nailed really hard it would come together - but it just never did. We'll probably replace the damaged pieces eventually and try filling the gaps and hopefully it will look decent enough to last a few years!