[star3114]

Legally, I would like to know if the school has any responsibility in the situation below... or if it is solely the responsibility of the parents. My son was at school and during lunch him and a friend went out to play. Him and his friend got the idea to throw rocks at a car parked along the school. Well, he broke the side of the car window with a rock. My question is why wasn't anyone watching them. He was on school grounds when he threw it and the car was on the street. I understand immensely that what my son did was wrong, but I am very hesitant to float the bill for the fiasco. They were supposed to be watching my child and not let him wander off. What if he would have been abducted... as close at they were to the street... that is a very big possibility. The police officer said that if we work it out with the car owners, then my son won't have a record... that they will keep the report on file in the local police office and won't take it any further. Are we responsible for paying... or is the school liable? :confused:

[Wondergirl]

Why would the school be responsible? Your son threw the rock.

Have you discussed this with the principal? If so, what did he say?

How did your son "wander off"? You said he was still on school property. He might have been in sight of a teacher or playground monitor, but those in charge aren't able to always hold back the arm of a boy who wants to throw a rock or even see him do it. I would guess (as the mother of two sons and the sister of two brothers) that he tried hard not to be seen.

How old is he? He has never been told not to throw rocks at cars?

[star3114]

He has been told many times not to throw rocks... period. He is 8. My concern is that they were negligent in not watching them. Two 8 yr old boys wandered off... and no one noticed them. That concerns me because of the lack of supervision. What is the school's responisbility in watching the kids? Are they not responsible at all? About the principal question, I meet with principal tomorrow, but wanted to get my ducks in a row first.

[JoeCanada76]

You as a parent have sole responsibility for the damage caused by your son.

[Wondergirl]

If this were my son, I would be so embarrassed and would apologize profusely to the principal and to the owner of the car. I would make sure my son wrote an apology note to the principal for wandering off, to the car owner for the broken window, and make sure my son paid for the window out of his own money. My son would also get punished for this at home.

[star3114]

He has been punished. Trust me I am mortified. He is working on an apology letter right now to the car owner... it is funny that you mentioned that. My son doesn't get allowance, so do I make him do lots of extra chores to pay for it? I am at a loss. We live in a small community and I feel horrible that he would do such a thing. Advice?

[Wondergirl]

Yes, he should do extra chores to pay for the window. He should do the chores willingly and well, no slopping and moping around allowed, or the deal is off for that chore and payment.

P.S. At the library where I work, one of my jobs is to be the supervisor of court-ordered community service workers. I work closely with the probation officers assigned to the younger ones, the teens. The offenders have to write an apology letter(s), write an essay about what they did and what they learned from the punishment, attend anger management or correct behavior classes, pay for whatever was broken/stolen, do so many community service hours cleaning shelves at the library.

[star3114]

What do you mean the deal is off? If he gives me attitude with doing the extra chores... what then?

[Wondergirl]

If he can't behave himself even enough to do an honest and fair job working out his punishment, that particular job should be taken away and a more difficult one be given to him for the same worth.

For instance, if he is supposed to wash the kitchen floor on his hands and knees (you will show him how and he will be expected to do a good job getting into the corners, washing the baseboards, etc.), but he doesn't want to, whines and cries, does a terrible sloppy job, then he gets a new job. He's handed a toothbrush or other small brush and Lime-away and told to clean the grout in the shower/tub area. If he fails at that or refuses to do it, then he gets a worse job.

Do not put up with any effort to get out of work or to do a sloppy job. This calls for Tough Love, not Easy Street.

[Wondergirl]

One of my regular volunteers (not community service) told me that he had gotten into some trouble in the Navy years ago. His punishment was to remove all the stuff in a closet and put it neatly into another closet he had just cleaned out, then put the stuff from the other closet into the empty closet. Once he was finished with that, he had to reverse the process and empty each closet and transfer the stuff from the second one into the first, and so on, back and forth, cleaning and moving, until he had worked off his time.

[nauticalstar420]

Speaking of the Navy, I used to be in the Navy. If my division in boot camp had caused some trouble, our RDC's used to come into our compartment (pretty much a giant room with beds and lockers), throw all of our stuff all over the floor, including ripping the sheets off our beds and throwing them in the floor, and make us pick it up and put it back very neatly as it should be. They would usually do this 4 or 5 times in a row before they got sick of watching us do this.

[star3114]

Wow. You have given me some really great advice. Thank you! I met with the principal today and told her that we would pay for it. Apparently, because the other boy was thowing rocks too and my son's happen to break the window... the other child is responsible for half of the window bill too. That made it a little easier for me to swallow. The part that got me fired up again was that it was a teacher's car. Not only did he break a window... but TO a TEACHERS car. Grrr. Today I made him peel apples for 2 hrs because we were going to make this teacher an apple cake on top of paying our half. I made my son do the grunt work with it. He started to complain and I just looked at him and he stopped immediately. He knows he is in hot water. The teacher was super understanding when I called her. I apologized for the incident (my son had already done his apologies). The teacher thanked me for contacting her so promptly and she said hopefully he learns his lesson. I hope so too. But I want to make extra impact. That is why I loved the ideas of the grunt chores. If he makes a fuss, he gets a worse deal. I like the whole scrubbing floor thing. The amount we had to pay was $150. How many chores, what kind of chores would be reasonable for working this off. He is not to see the boy that he did this with... and he is grounded from bike, etc. until the money is paid off. How long should that be? Advice?

[Wondergirl]

I've been told I'm very good at coming up with drudgery for my community service workers to do, jobs that need doing but no one else has thought of them.

Floors have to be scrubbed at least once a week. Beds have to be NICELY made every morning. Clothes have to be sorted and washed, then dried, then folded CORRECTLY. Carpets have to be vacuumed; furniture and lamps and shelves have to be dusted. Pet dishes have to be cleaned and rinsed thoroughly at least once a day. Kitchen cabinets have to be cleaned out and washed and refilled. Pantries (cans, bottles, jars, mixes) have to be cleaned and restacked. The cabinet under the bathroom sink has to be cleaned out.

If you play your cards right, you can get your fall cleaning done with your son's help.

I'd tell him it's $5 for certain projects and $10 for others. E.g. whichever beds are made every morning for 10 mornings = $10 total. Pay per project, not per time spent, or he will take his sweet time.

Keep good records of what he does, when he does it (date, time). Make a chart so you can both keep track of what he does. Be fair. Make him work but don't take advantage of him.

(I am so very proud of you, star3114!! )

[star3114]

Thank you so much for your help!

[excon]

The police officer said that if we work it out with the car owners, then my son won't have a record....that they will keep the report on file in the local police office and won't take it any further.

Hello star:

I'm glad you finished with THAT part of it. I just wanted to tie up any loose ends lying around.

I hate cops. You would naturally think I would, because of my name... But, NOOOOO. I hate 'em because of what they did to YOU!

This cop made it sound like he was doing you a favor. He was NOT. Your son wouldn't have a record EVEN if he was charged criminally in juvenile court. He's not being charged, NOT because the cop is a nice guy, but because your son did not break any criminal law. He wouldn't have a record, because he's NOT a criminal...

Additionally, this cop made it sound like they're keeping the record, as though it will be used against your son should he find himself in trouble later in life. That too, is a blatant LIE.

I really don't want to hate cops... But, if they keep lying, I'll keep hating...

excon

[ScottGem]

I just saw this thread so I'm going to put in my 2 cents. Your son and his friend are equally responsible. They are old enough to understand that throwing rocks at things can cause damage.

The school supervision issue is a SEPARATE issue. While the school cannot watch over them every second, to allow 8 yr olds to wander away from the oversight of teachers is a breach in their responsibility. And that issue should be pursued with the school administration. But it doesn't maek them liable for any damages caused by your son.

[star3114]

Thank you guys for you input. I would like more info on the record keeping piece too. How do you know this information?

[Wondergirl]

Here's one site:

When a Minor Commits a Crime - Findlaw for the Public -