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al-1 · Sep 29, 2007, 01:36 PM

Will we have free will in heaven ?

shygrneyzs · Sep 29, 2007, 02:25 PM

I do not see free will in Heaven mentioned in the Bible. Why would you want free will when you are in a state of perfection, once you have gained entrance into Heaven?

Fr_Chuck · Sep 29, 2007, 04:16 PM

since all sin is gone, and all people will be perfected, even if there was free will, there would be no will to do anything except good things.

Tj3 · Sep 29, 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by al-1

Will we have free will in heaven ?

Scripture does not tell us specifically one way or the other, but since God has given us free will here, indicating that he does not want robots forced to worship Him, why would that change in heaven? We have chosen to receive Christ as Saviour, we want to worship God, so why would He then take away our freewill to freely worship Him from our desire to do?

Scripture says that we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is molding us to be more like Christ, altering our desires from that of sinful man to that of perfected man. When we are perfected, our desire will also be in alignment with that that God would have for us, so our will be in alignment with what God would have for us. When we see that we are being molded to be more like Christ, we can see what our perfected freewill would be like when we look at Christ.

Luke 22:42
Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."
NKJV

So I expect that we will, like Christ, have freewill, but we will be willing to submit our will and ourselves to God the Father.

N0help4u · Sep 29, 2007, 05:56 PM

Rating reply to TJ3 got cut off

N0help4u agrees: I think in Heaven it wouldn't be so much of being a robot but something more like your last sentence and what fr chuck said

Biggie · Sep 29, 2007, 06:01 PM

I wouldn't see the need for it.

Wangdoodle · Sep 29, 2007, 07:26 PM

This is one of those questions that we just won't know until we are in heaven, enjoying the beatific vision. Here is a link to an article by Fr. William Saunders that might help.

Fr. William Saunders

fallen2grace · Sep 29, 2007, 11:01 PM

Free Will to do what?

I don't see why you would need it in Heven.

ordinaryguy · Sep 30, 2007, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by fallen2grace

Free Will to do what?

I dont see why you would need it in Heven.

What? Is sinning the only thing you can think of to do with free will?

fallen2grace · Sep 30, 2007, 11:00 AM

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fallen2grace · Oct 1, 2007, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

What? Is sinning the only thing you can think of to do with free will?

No, But look at it this way. What else would you want to be doing besides worshiping God?
I know that's all I would want to be doing. What about you?

savedsinner7 · Oct 12, 2007, 09:29 PM

If we find ourselves standing in Heaven before the LORD Jesus Christ, obviously we have chosen to use our free will to worship Him. We would not need it in Heaven because our sole purpose would be worshiping Him all the time.

Tj3 · Oct 13, 2007, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by savedsinner7

If we find ourselves standing in Heaven before the LORD Jesus Christ, obviously we have chosen to use our free will to worship Him. We would not need it in Heaven because our sole purpose would be worshiping Him all the time.

I have an issue with this logic. If God sees that we freely chose to worship Him and Him alone while on earth, why would He then take us into heaven and remove that free will from us once we have been perfected?

There is nothing in scripture to tell us that, nor does it follow logically. The fact that God gave us free will while on earth speaks to God's character - He does not want robots worshipping Him. Why then would He remove that free will in heaven? Would it mean more to have people forced to worship Him, or to have us all wanting and chosing to freely worship Him? God has shown by His character in how He deals with us on earth that He would prefer a people who freely choose to worship Him.

ordinaryguy · Oct 13, 2007, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

I have an issue with this logic. If God sees that we freely chose to worship Him and Him alone while on earth, why would He then take us into heaven and remove that free will from us once we have been perfected?

There is nothing in scripture to tell us that, nor does it follow logically. The fact that God gave us free will while on earth speaks to God's character - He does not want robots worshipping Him. Why then would He remove that free will in heaven? Would it mean more to have people forced to worship Him, or to have us all wanting and chosing to freely worship Him? God has shown by His character in how He deals with us on earth that He would prefer a people who freely choose to worship Him.

I agree. It seems to me that the idea that perfected beings wouldn't "need" free will reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of what freedom is. As though the only possible use of it is to do something bad, or if you don't want to do something bad, you aren't really free to choose the good. Nonsense.

savedsinner7 · Oct 13, 2007, 11:14 AM

Job 42
Job
1 Then Job replied to the LORD :
2 "I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."

Originally Posted by Tj3

I have an issue with this logic. If God sees that we freely chose to worship Him and Him alone while on earth, why would He then take us into heaven and remove that free will from us once we have been perfected?

There is nothing in scripture to tell us that, nor does it follow logically. The fact that God gave us free will while on earth speaks to God's character - He does not want robots worshipping Him. Why then would He remove that free will in heaven? Would it mean more to have people forced to worship Him, or to have us all wanting and chosing to freely worship Him? God has shown by His character in how He deals with us on earth that He would prefer a people who freely choose to worship Him.

Tj3 · Oct 13, 2007, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by savedsinner7

Job 42
Job
1 Then Job replied to the LORD :
2 "I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."

What was the point that you were making here? It is not clear.

Wondergirl · Oct 13, 2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

What? Is sinning the only thing you can think of to do with free will?

No, but Adam and Eve had free will and knew God in all His glory... even walked and talked with Him...

Maybe the better questions are, Will God put a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in Heaven, and will there be a serpent there?

Tj3 · Oct 13, 2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, but Adam and Eve had free will and knew God in all His glory...even walked and talked with Him....

Maybe the better questions are, Will God put a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in Heaven, and will there be a serpent there?

There are other differences, such as those who are believers in Christ now have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide us, and when we are in heaven, we will receive our perfected bodies, no longer struggling between the desires of the flesh and holiness.

Wondergirl · Oct 13, 2007, 11:47 AM

And where will the "serpent" (i.e. the Father of Lies) be, pray tell?

Tj3 · Oct 13, 2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And where will the "serpent" (i.e., the Father of Lies) be, pray tell?

Satan was tossed out of heaven, and ultimately will be sent to the lake of fire:

Rev 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
NKJV