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Tj3 · Sep 16, 2007, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Just curious,
is it not rather confusing, three being One?

The same question could be asked about man. How can we be body, soul and spirit and yet one person - but it is true. There are many things that we do not understand and yet we know that the Bible is true.

firmbeliever · Sep 17, 2007, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

The same question could be asked about man. How can we be body, soul and spirit and yet one person - but it is true. There are many things that we do not understand and yet we know that the Bible is true.

I understand the human being having a body and a soul,but as I do not believe God to be human, it is confusing when it is said that He is "three and One".
I believe He is just One.

About the Bible being true, I believe the book that was revealed to Jesus(alaihi salaam) was the word of the Alimghty,but I do not believe today's bible's is exactly the same book,which existed then.

Capuchin · Sep 17, 2007, 04:48 AM

I believe that the human has no separate spirit or soul, they are just part of the body and can be explained in terms of the body. I don't see how you could say "it is true"

The1888message · Sep 17, 2007, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

The same question could be asked about man. How can we be body, soul and spirit and yet one person - but it is true. There are many things that we do not understand and yet we know that the Bible is true.

The Bible states in Gen Chapter 1 that when God created man he formed man out of the earth and then God breathed the breath of life into man and at that point we became a “Living Soul”. I do not think that we have a soul but that we are a living soul as long as we have the breath of life from God in us.

The three gods that somehow equal this one god I cannot find in the Bible. Where did it come from?

Peace and Grace
David

Tj3 · Sep 17, 2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by The1888message

The Bible states in Gen Chapter 1 that when God created man he formed man out of the earth and then God breathed the breath of life into man and at that point we became a “Living Soul”. I do not think that we have a soul but that we are a living soul as long as we have the breath of life from God in us.

The three gods that somehow equal this one god I cannot find in the Bible. Where did it come from?

Peace and Grace
David

Whether you believe you have a soul or not does not change the reality that we see in scripture.

Where do you get "3 gods" from. There is only one God, but three persons.

Tj3 · Sep 17, 2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I understand the human being having a body and a soul,but as I do not believe God to be human, it is confusing when it is said that He is "three and One".
I believe He is just One.

God is not human, but we are made in God's image - we have three parts, and He has three parts, but He, being infinite, is much greater than us.

About the Bible being true, I believe the book that was revealed to Jesus(alaihi salaam) was the word of the Alimghty,but I do not believe today's bible's is exactly the same book,which existed then.

What is the evidence for your belief that the Bible has changed?

firmbeliever · Sep 17, 2007, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

God is not human, but we are made in God's image - we have three parts, and He has three parts, but He, being infinite, is much greater than us.

What is the evidence for your belief that the Bible has changed?

Do you believe that the present Bible is the same as the original book?

I do not believe in the trinity either.

The1888message · Sep 17, 2007, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Whether you believe you have a soul or not does not change the reality that we see in scripture.

Where do you get "3 gods" from. There is only one God, but three persons.

Those who believe in the “trinity” say that there is one god. However it is plain to see in their writings and their song etc, the terminology states “god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit”.

They say that these three person that are all called god are really God in three parts / persons / personalities or something to that fact.

If all three are god then when Christ called out while on the cross “my God, my God why hast thou forsaken me, which of the other two gods was he referring too? It could not be himself for he was on the cross.

While talking to Mary after His resurrection why did Christ tell her that he was going to see His Father our Father, HIS GOD our God?
I mean after all if it takes the three persons to make this One god and Christ was not there to with the other two gods to make up this one god. If it takes the three to make this one god who was Christ calling God?

See at this time according to the “trinity” statement that it takes the three to make one God, a part of the three was missing and therefore you only had two persons (who are both called god’ there to make up this three god. How can that be?
Three make one but if one is not there then you have two that make one.

This is just to confusing Why not just believe the Bible when it states that there is only One True God the Father and that Christ is the Son of God and the He inherited the name of His Father. All of this is scriptural and I will be glad to provide to any that are interested.

Peace and Grace

David

Tj3 · Sep 17, 2007, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Do you believe that the present Bible is the same as the original book?

I do not believe in the trinity either.

You made the claim that it wasn't the same book - let's hear you defend that claim.

Tj3 · Sep 17, 2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by The1888message

Those who believe in the “trinity” say that there is one god. However it is plain to see in their writings and their song etc, the terminology states “god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit”.

They say that these three person that are all called god are really God in three parts / persons / personalities or something to that fact.

If all three are god then when Christ called out while on the cross “my God, my God why hast thou forsaken me, which of the other two gods was he referring too? It could not be himself for he was on the cross.

No it was not Himself - it was God the Father. Keep in mind that when Jesus (God the Son) came to earth as a man (1 Tim 3:16), He willingly submitted Himself to The Father, and Humbled himself to be abedient as a man. To do so, it was essential that He be obedient to the Father as God, or as a man, He would have sinned.

This also explains all the other references that you give in your argument.

See at this time according to the “trinity” statement that it takes the three to make one God, a part of the three was missing and therefore you only had two persons (who are both called god’ there to make up this three god. How can that be?

No one was missing - who was missing and where do you find a scripture reference saying that one was missing?

This is just to confusing Why not just believe the Bible when it states that there is only One True God the Father and that Christ is the Son of God and the He inherited the name of His Father. All of this is scriptural and I will be glad to provide to any that are interested.

I do believe the Bible. Do you? Who are the three persons in Is 48:16-17? Please answer that if you can.

deist · Sep 17, 2007, 06:11 PM

Being a deist I don't believe any of the tenets of the revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity, & Islam). I believe that whatever something created the universe, which I personally call God, is one entity, not three or three in one.

firmbeliever · Sep 17, 2007, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by deist

Being a deist I don't believe any of the tenets of the revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity, & Islam). I believe that whatever something created the universe, which I personally call God, is one entity, not three or three in one.

Islam and Judaism (I think) do not follow a three in one God or God being three,
It is monotheistic.
I as a muslim believe in One Almighty God as the Creator of all that exists in this universe and beyond.

Wangdoodle · Sep 17, 2007, 08:37 PM

Below is an excerpt from the Anthanasian Creed, an elaborate definition of the doctrine. I have found that when discussing the Trinity with people, we may not be under the same understanding of what the Trinity is. Then more confusion will fallow as a result. This is my understanding of the Trinity:

For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one Eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one Uncreated, and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge each Person by Himself to be both God and Lord, so we are also forbidden by the catholic religion to say that there are three gods or three lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.

deist · Sep 17, 2007, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Islam and Judaism (I think) do not follow a three in one God or God being three,
it is monotheistic.
I as a muslim believe in One Almighty God as the Creator of all that exists in this universe and beyond.

No, Judaism & Islam do not believe in the trinity. But both believe in prophets & miracles. Both believe their holy book is inspired by a deity. Deists believe none of this.

firmbeliever · Sep 17, 2007, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by deist

No, Judaism & Islam do not believe in the trinity. But both believe in prophets & miracles. Both believe their holy book is inspired by a deity. Deists believe none of this.

Yes we muslims do believe in divinely inspired books,
That is books revealed to different Prophets at different time,but we believe the Quran as the final revelation and Muhammad (peace be upon him)as the last Prophet among many.

The1888message · Sep 18, 2007, 05:21 AM

No one was missing - who was missing and where do you find a scripture reference saying that one was missing?

I was not using scripture; I was using my thoughts. It just seemed that if Christ was not in Heaven being He is suppose to be one of the three gods and he was calling out to God. Then this three in one god was missing one of its members.

I do believe the Bible. Do you? Who are the three persons in Is 48:16-17? Please answer that if you can.

Isa. 48:16-17 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
This is speaking of God and His Spirit as well as the Son of God, all three of these I believe in.
What I do not accept as scriptural is that they are all three gods and that they all three equal the one true god. This is the issue.

If Christ is “god the son” give me one text that states this phrase?
Also if Christ is god then explain why being god would he be given power, glory, honor etc. I mean God according to the scriptures is all-powerful, all knowing etc. yet Christ was given things, why would he be given anything?

Also could someone give me scripture verses showing where we are to worship and honor the Holy Spirit?

These three gods that are really one god goes does not make any sense.

Peace and Grace
David

The1888message · Sep 18, 2007, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by deist

Being a deist I don't believe any of the tenets of the revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity, & Islam). I believe that whatever something created the universe, which I personally call God, is one entity, not three or three in one.

While I do believe in the Bible, I can agree with you that there is One God. And that He created everything.

Peace and Grace
David

The1888message · Sep 18, 2007, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Islam and Judaism (I think) do not follow a three in one God or God being three,
it is monotheistic.
I as a muslim believe in One Almighty God as the Creator of all that exists in this universe and beyond.

While I am a Christian some may find it a hard thing to believe but Muslim's do have this correct. There is only One God and He is not in three parts / persons.

Could this be part of the issue between Christians and Muslims?

Peace and Grace
David

firmbeliever · Sep 18, 2007, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by The1888message

While I am a Christian some may find it a hard thing to believe but Muslim's do have this correct. There is only One God and He is not in three parts / persons.

Could this be part of the issue between Christians and Muslims?

Peace and Grace
David

David,
It is one of the topmost issues.
The other is that we do not believe Jesus(peace be upon him) to be the Son of God either.

The thing is that Muslims do not believe Islam began in Arabia with Muhammad (peace be upon him).Islam was the original religion since Adam.

Muslim believes in all the Messengers and Prophets of God without any discrimination. All messengers were mortals, human beings, endowed with Divine revelations and appointed by God to teach mankind.
The Holy Quran mentions the names of 25 messengers and prophets and states that there are others. These include Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Their message is the same and it is Islam and it came from One and the Same Source; God, and it is to submit to His will and to obey His law; i.e. to become a Muslim.

Other issues include that Christians believe Jesus(peace be upon him) was crucified, which we do not believe.
We believe that he was taken up to God and he will descend at the end times to establish the truth and live and die just like all humans.

Wangdoodle · Sep 18, 2007, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by The1888message

I was not using scripture; I was using my thoughts. It just seemed that if Christ was not in Heaven being He is suppose to be one of the three gods and he was calling out to God. Then this three in one god was missing one of its members.

Isa. 48:16-17 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
This is speaking of God and His Spirit as well as the Son of God, all three of these I believe in.
What I do not accept as scriptural is that they are all three gods and that they all three equal the one true god. This is the issue.

If Christ is “god the son” give me one text that states this phrase?
Also if Christ is god then explain why being god would he be given power, glory, honor etc.? I mean God according to the scriptures is all-powerful, all knowing etc. yet Christ was given things, why would he be given anything?

Also could someone give me scripture verses showing where we are to worship and honor the Holy Spirit?

These three gods that are really one god goes does not make any sense.

Peace and Grace
David

Let me be clear. The Trinitarian view is that there is one God, not three separate gods. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of the same substance.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

My understanding of these verses is that God became man. This man is Christ. To me Christ is the Word made flesh.