[gearnest]

Just wondering if any pyr owners have experienced joint pain and fatigue in young pyrs.
My male pyr just turned 6 months old, and already has torn a cartlage in his right shoulder and his hips and legs seem so stiff. This breed grows at such a rate, I'm afraid that he is developing a problem, also he has lost his playful nature and just wants to lay around.
In short, half the time he acts like a senior dog, and the rest of the time he seems down right bored... any advice?

[labman]

I would immediately switch him to an adult chow. Even the large breed puppy chows are formulated for the fastest possible growth. Switching to an adult chow will slow the growth asking less of the developing joints.

For the same reason, keep him lean. See LongLiveYourDog.com - Life Span Study - Rate Your Dog If he is too heavy, cut him back a little. You might even go a shade below ideal.

Have you talked to the vet?

[ncrpara]

just wondering if any pyr owners have experienced joint pain and fatigue in young pyrs.
my male pyr just turned 6 mths old, and already has torn a cartlage in his right shoulder and his hips and legs seem so stiff. this breed grows at such a rate, im afraid that he is developing a problem, also he has lost his playful nature and just wants to lay around.
in short, half the time he acts like a senior dog, and the rest of the time he seems down right bored.... any advice?

Hi. I do know that some large breed puppies can suffer muscular and joint problems. I feel you should get him to the vet. It has a name, but I can't think of it at this moment. Sometimes, this can cause a lot of distress and more problems for the dog.

Sincerely,
Nan

[gearnest]

I have consulted my vet, but not very pleased with her interest in the matter.
She gave cooper a 10 day supply of an anti inflammatory pill, which did seem to work some, but didn't satisfy my concerns. I am planning on taking him to another vet for a exam. What concerns me is that he has just turned 6mths old. I would think that his testosterone would be kicking in and he would be reaking havok, but he has no energy. It may be the awful heat we have had lately, I don't know. I'm just worried sick.

[gearnest]

Also he is right at 65 pounds, which is perfectly normal for his age and height. So the weight isn't an issue. It sounds silly but he is growing so fast that its almost as if he can't get use to today's body because tomorrow his legs are longer, his head is bigger. You can almost watch this dog growing. Haha. It really is amazing. He was only 7pds at 6wks. I never imagined the growing would be this fast.

[ncrpara]

Hi. I know how you feel with worry. But, I'm glad to hear you are taking your pup to the vet.

Please keep me posted.

Fondly,
Nan :)

[RubyPitbull]

gearnest, labman is right on target regarding switching to an adult chow. Please listen to him. Your pup will still grow to the size he is intended to be, but switching to an adult chow now will slow down your puppy's growth rate to a more acceptable and comfortable level, without having to use medication. Many vets do recommend that a switch to adult chow is needed for larger breed dogs by the time they are six months of age. Slowing down the rate of growth allows the bones & plates to form and fuse together properly. One thing you should be aware of if you are not already, pure bred GPs are prone to hip dysplacia. The best way to ensure minimal problems as he ages is to slow his growth rate down now. I do think if you are not happy with the attention your vet is giving this, you definitely should find another one.

[gearnest]

I really appreciate all the sound advice. I am learning a lot.
I had no idea that the puppy food would allow faster growth, I thought that by feeding him the puppy formula, that I was making sure that he was getting the protein and vitamins that a young pup needs. I assume that when switching him over, I need to do it gradually?
The thing that puzzles me is that he doesn't seem to be in pain, he is never hateful or snappy. He just seems real tight. I bathe him once a week and I use real warm water, it seems to help some. I also spend around an hour each day brushing him and just really giving him a nice rub down, concentrating oh his shoulders and hips. He really is a great dog and so far a darn good friend. I have owned many dogs, but this one has completely stolen my heart. Even at 6mths old, his eyes are full of love and wisdom. I really just want to give him the best life possible.
Sorry so long.. one last thing, I have read about the hip dysplasia with great pyrs, but I understood that it was in the older dog. Are the pups prone to this problem?

[RubyPitbull]

gearnest, let's see if I can respond to all that you have posted. Let me know if I left anything out or if you need more clarification.

Hip Dysplacia does develop when a dog ages. But it is a genetic defect they are born with. It results from abnormal development of the joint cartilage and this occurs during a puppies growth period. This disease is influenced by nutrition. Foods higher in calories (puppy chow) during growth, increases the risk of developing HD. The trigger for HD is related to the rapid increase in bodyweight on a relatively immature skeleton and its inability to support this increase in bodyweight. It stresses the immature cartilage & growth plates. Slowing down the growth process gives the cartilage (bone) & growth plates a much better chance of fusing together properly as they were meant to, which in turn, gives your dog a better chance of minimizing the effects of HD on his body. Keeping your dog lean throughout his life also will help him with this problem as he ages. I would suggest you speak to your (new?) vet about this. He/she may have some informational pamphlets they can give to you and will make a recommendation as to which brands of adult chow are best for your dog. Please don't worry, the food in the adult chows will meet your pup's nutritional needs. And yes, you do need to make a gradual change over a one week period. Start by reducing a little of the puppy chow and adding a little of the adult chow to his meal. Each feeding time, reduce a little more "p" chow and add a little more of the "a" chow. By the end of a week, he will be safely switched to the adult chow. Doing it this way, over a few days period, will avoid any gastric upset that might occur.

I know GPs are absolutely gorgeous puppies and dogs. Very sweet dispositions. Glad to know he has stolen your heart. :) I think the brushing and the massages on a daily basis are an excellent idea. Aside from the massage giving him some relief, the brushing is good for his coat and skin. It also provides a wonderful opportunity for further bonding and his placing his trust in you as the alpha. But, you need to minimize the baths my dear. Once a week is way too much. Labman will tell you he never gives his dogs a bath, just brushes them regularly and they smell fine. I will give my dog a bath once or twice a year and brush her regularly. More than that really isn't necessary unless he has gotten into something particularly dirty or smelly. In giving him as many baths are you have been, you are drying out the essential oils in his skin. So, please rethink that part of his routine. Again, please discuss this with your vet. It is important that whenever you receive information from any source other than your vet, that you confirm it's reliability. I won't be offended, and it is important that you develop trust and a good working relationship with your vet.

[labman]

Ruby has already given you most of your answers. HD results from failing to develop the proper bone structure as a puppy. It varies in degree. Only in the most severe cases does the dog show symptoms as a puppy, and some not until 5-10 years old. If it isn't too bad, they can make up with muscle tone while young for what they lack in bone structure. My friends' Golden was a good example. At a year, he was rejected as a dog guide due to his X-Rays. For most of his life he lived a less strenuous life as a pet, 4 legged alpha male, and uncle to litter after litter of Lab pups. He was even allowed in the whelping box to help groom them. He was also quite capable of teaching older male puppies their manners.

There are other things that can cause problems, some of which go away. Aster and 2 of the males from her litter limped as puppies. The 2 males did have HP. Aster may have been torn cartilage. With generous doses of buta something, the limp was gone by a year, X-rays fine, and she retired as a dog guide at 10 for largely stress related digestive problems. You can worry your dog sick. She is doing well as she approaches 14 except for arthritis in one from paw. I wonder if I stepped on it too hard sometime when she was little.

I seldom hear of any of the dog guide school's dogs being rejected for HD any more. Since Aster and the Golden were puppies, they have refined their breeding program and are more careful about the early switch to adult chow and keeping the puppies lean.

[gearnest]

thanks for all the helpful advise! Sorry to throw so much info at you, but I didn't want to leave anything out that might help you to understand. As far as the baths go, I am afraid of drying his skin out, but the weekly baths are mostly a time for him to soak his bones in the warm water, sort of a play time. We only use shampoo on the day of his dr appts. Anyway, I will slow that down some, it just seems to help.
on a positive note, cooper and I were in the yard yesterday evening, and he was a little more active, not anywhere close to the old cooper, but it was very nice to see him up and playing some. Hope you guys don't think I'm a freak, but I tend to grow very attached to my animals.
I am a medical tech for a local hospital. I'm going to due some blood work on him and then we're going for x-rays on tues, so wish us luck and I will keep you posted. Thanks again

[labman]

Lots of us freaks here, happy to have you in the crowd. Keep us posted.

[gearnest]

Hey guys,

Just a quick update on Cooper my great pyr. He will be a year old in a few weeks, and thanks to all the great advice from this site, he is much better. 100% in fact.
I changed his puppy food as recommended, I also took his treats from him. His fur grew back and he's no longer limping.

[gearnest]

p.s.

I would recommend a pyr to almost anyone, ( with lots of room of course)!
Cooper is by far the best dog I have ever owned. One look in his eyes and you will be convinced that dogs, like humans, have souls. Have a great day!