[Capuchin]

Mountainman. I do not have faith in God not existing. I stated that in the post before yours. I have a need for evidence.

I wrote "no i don't have faith that god does not exist"

To which you wrote "So with strong conviction you believe God doesn't exist."

I don't see how you reached that conclusion.
Don't put words into my mouth again, especially when I have stated the exact opposite.

[mountain_man]

I'd say that Karma works. Karma ALWAYS works.

Somehow along the way, you helped someone else. The good vibes from that came back to you threefold, and gave you the help you needed, when you needed it.

While I believe that having faith in the Lady has a tremendous influence on my life, I also think that she leaves most things alone, and lets our own actions determine the course of our lives--good or bad.

OK... I guess I just feel that giving so much credit to karma or to chance just is not enough to explain everything else. Just looking at the intricacies of life and/or the miracle of life that there HAS to be a God. It just is too random for there not to be. Thanks for the hearty discussion.

[mountain_man]

mountainman. I do not have faith in God not existing. I stated that in the post before yours. I have a need for evidence.

I wrote "no i don't have faith that god does not exist"

To which you wrote "So with strong conviction you believe God doesn't exist."

I don't see how you reached that conclusion.
Don't put words into my mouth again, especially when I have stated the exact opposite.

That is refreshing to hear that "you do not have faith that God doesn't exist" so there is still hope that one day you will have an experience where He will reveal himself to you and you won't miss it. God bless.

[shatteredsoul]

Boy, with an issue like God things can get heated. I think the opportunity to share our thoughts and differences is part of what makes life so interesting. I don't think that we have to be angry that others don't see things the way we do, we have to learn from it. I am thankful for all the knowledge that comes forth from posts such as these, and if it widens my perspective and awareness of others, it truly connects us in a way that can only be positive. So, regardless of what anyone thinks, our words and our own beliefs have brought us together, for no rhyme or scientific reason, just because of the timing and the interest. That is an amazing thing. I don't think you have to believe in God to be happy. I don't know if feeling joy, love and compassion has to be a religion, but it should be a universal understanding of how to make like on this planet, in this existence, better for all of humankind. That is my purpose and focus in life. I find that since I have focused on my own feelings and values, I feel that some greater force connects us all and allows us to experience all the wonderful opportunities, that comes with being a human being. The sense of touch, smell, taste, sight, hearing, and the emotions we can feel and create between each other, are fascinating and can be overwhelming. We don't have to put labels on people to be one thing or the other. I hope that you can see people and create relationships with people that bring you joy and help you to feel loved. That is what truly matters. Whether science created that, or God created science, well just isn't the point here. We aren't going to all agree. That is o.k. We can begin to bridge the gaps between cultures, and countries to be more united and more peaceful, this would somehow start a chain reaction of goodness and love. Wouldn't that be more amazing than trying to make everyone look at life the same way? WE have to look at the bigger picture here. It doesn't matter that Capuchin needs evidence to believe in God, that is what his mind and experiences have taught him. What does matter is that we listen without judgment and try to become more compassionate in the process. The process of life is more important than the destiny, especially if there is no God.
Part of the problem is that it is difficult to embrace God when the idea is always wrapped around religion. It might be easier for people to think about God if they didn't feel pressured to conform to a specific religion. I have gotten over that need and that pressure and I don't identify myself as religious, I have a relationship with God, that is within me. I nurture and develop my spirituality through prayer, meditation and by trying to be loving, compassionate and forgiving. This is my truth and my way. I am not imposing it on others, but I would encourage us all to embrace our differences and become one, for the sake of saving this world that is rapidly deteriorating because of violence, hate, greed and judgmental, narrow beliefs. I hope we can use this thread to begin to accept all of our own differences to come together. Peace to all of you. Only good Karma can come from that, right Synnen??

[NeedKarma]

That is refreshing to hear that "you do not have faith that God doesn't exist" so there is still hope that one day you will have an experience where He will reveal himself to you and you won't miss it. God bless.

And we hope that some day you will drop the charade of religion and begin to think for yourself. How does that sound?

[shatteredsoul]

NeedKarma, I understand your frustration with religion. I respect your differences and your beliefs, now can we move past our differences to create unity in some way? You don't need God to do that. It begins with each of us. Yes, we have the responsibility to become the best person we can be. We need to look past those who see differently and recognize we are all the same, we share the same earth. We all have families and relationships and jobs. They all come with struggle and disappointment and pain. Finding a way to be compassionate to those that you find difficulty with, will bring you peace, regardless of what you believe.

[NeedKarma]

NeedKarma, I understand your frustration with religion.

Nah, I'm not frustrated with religion at all. I'm frustrated at the individual who thinks others are defective for choosing a different belief. :)

[BMI]

FOr those of you citing scientific or God theories from great thinkers of the past than I am surprised nobody has mentioned Plato and Socraties view on the subject of God. That's about as logical as it gets coming from those two fellers. If you have time to read up on it than please do so, any arguments or ideas that contracdict what they wrote or argued would be quite facinating I would say.

[shatteredsoul]

Allowing someone to make you frustrated, only gives your own power away, you should utilize your energy in a way that creates harmony and not discord. No matter what you believe, or what they believe.

[excon]

Hello again:

97% of the people in the world have a religion.. I don't care that my views go against 97% of the people in the world including many of the world's greatest thinkers. Who knows, maybe somebody will write a book about me, and call me the greatest thinker of them all?

excon

PS> I'm a Jew. Maybe they'll declare me a God, like they did one of my lanzmen.

[retsoksirhc]

I believe in science. That isn't to say I don't believe in god.

The second law of thermaldynamics basically says that without intervention from someone outside our world, our world itself would move toward a state of "equilibrium," or basically that things don't become more organized over time by themselves (i.e, evolution). This is called Entropy.

Unfortunately, the second law of thermal dynamics also states that this only works on a macroscopic scale (i.e, the entire universe). Microscopically (with just 2 molocules,) this can be disproved by the fact that a slow moving molocule can collide with a faster one, and their speeds won't necessarily both move toward a central, more equal speed.

While it is a stretch to say that the same could happen for something as big as an entire planet, it is still possible.

So thermaldynamics still says there can be a god, it just doesn't say anything about the Christian God.

[shatteredsoul]

excon, Or maybe you are God.

[mountain_man]

And we hope that some day you will drop the charade of religion and begin to think for yourself. How does that sound?

It is not a charade of religion that was cast upon me llike you are making it out to be, it was something I personally have experienced time and time again that has made me believe the way I do. My relationship with God is personal and because of what He has done for me I like to share it in hopes that other people would experience the same. I wouldn't be here debating if I couldn't think for myself.

[startover22]

It is not a charade of religion that was cast upon me llike you are making it out to be, it was something I personally have experienced time and time again that has made me believe the way I do. My relationship with God is personal and because of what He has done for me I like to share it in hopes that other people would experience the same. I wouldn't be here debating if I couldn't think for myself.

I give you credit by spreading the word. It does seem as though you may be spreading and pushing. I can look past that... some people will never WANT what you want so sometimes, we need to leave well enough alone.
Your experiences are wonderful, I appreciate you sharing them here with all of us. Hugs, Start

[mountain_man]

I give you credit by spreading the word. It does seem as though you may be spreading and pushing. I can look past that....some people will never WANT what you want so sometimes, we need to leave well enough alone.
Your experiences are wonderful, I appreciate you sharing them here with all of us. Hugs, Start

Thanks for your feedback, I do tend to be passionate about what I believe in not just my belief system... and sometimes (most of the time, if you ask my wife) antagonistic. God bless.

[shatteredsoul]

YOu are coming from a place of good intentions and that is always good. It just isn't always what people are going to agree with or want to hear. Sometimes people just want to be right and that's OK too, it just doesn't affect change, or bring about a positive result.

[BMI]

I think this forum makes quite a fine line between spreading and pushing. It seems those that don't believe in God take any idea about God as the speaker PUSHING it on them and casting them down for not believing, believe me that is not the intention of anyone. (I thought that was funny "beleive me", if you guys don't laugh at my jokes than dammit I will:)

Besides startover, what happened to us agreeing on talking about GIRLS :)

[startover22]

Yes, you are a bit passionate! Have a great day! And God bless you too.

[startover22]

I think this forum makes quite a fine line between spreading and pushing. It seems those that don't beleive in God take any idea about God as the speaker PUSHING it on them and casting them down for not beleiving, beleive me that is not the intention of anyone. (I thought that was funny "beleive me", if you guys don't laugh at my jokes than dammit i will:)

Besides startover, what happened to us agreeing on talking about GIRLS :)

I am a girl... but I don't mind talking about them... where do we go for that? LOL
And yes, I crack myself up all the time! Go Hawks!

[mountain_man]

YOu are coming from a place of good intentions and that is always good. It just isn't always what people are going to agree with or want to hear. Sometimes people just want to be right and that's ok too, it just doesn't affect change, or bring about a positive result.

And someone disagreeing with me doesn't offend me like it seems to with others and I also completely understand that a select group of people really don't want to hear what I believe... I also totally agree people want (need) to be right but to be right you must at sometime first agree that you were wrong... Debate about ones beliefs always hits people at the core of who they are