[Dark_crow]

At present, do you believe that fundamentalist religion has an unparalleled influence in the highest government levels in the United States?

Does there exist appeasement of religious extremists of all faiths by moderates?

[Fr_Chuck]

No I believe that fundamentalist have little or no influence with the government, if they did, abortion would have been outlawed,

I believe if anything there is an appeasement of the politically correct minority groups over the actual will of the majority of the people

[Dark_crow]

No I believe that fundamentalist have little or no influence with the government, if they did, abortion would have been outlawed,

I believe if anything there is an appeasement of the politically correct minority groups over the actual will of the majority of the people

Chuck

It appears to me that the truth or falsity of the premise hinges a great deal on how we define “fundamentalist religion.” If it were to be defined as "born- again or evangelical," and if 54% of Protestants describe themselves this way, then evangelical Protestants make up the largest single religious category.
“…the trend since the late 1980s has been toward stronger religious belief. Eight-in-ten Americans (81%) say that prayer is an important part of their daily lives, and just as many believe there will be a Judgment Day when people will be called before God to answer for their sins. Even more people (87%) agree with the statement "I never doubt the existence of God.

“…in 1987 and 1988; the same percentage in both parties affirmed the importance of prayer, belief in Judgment Day and strong belief in God (71% in each). But over the past 15 years, Republicans have become increasingly united in these beliefs, opening up a seven-point gap between the parties (78% vs. 71% of Democrats).

“In 1987 and 1988, white evangelical Protestants were split fairly evenly along partisan lines (34% Republicans, 31% Democrats). Today, there is a nearly two-to-one Republican advantage among white evangelicals (43%-22%). The partisanship of non-evangelical white Protestants and black Protestants, by comparison, has been relatively stable.”

Now given that Bush is an evangelical the case could be made that, “…that fundamentalist religion has an unparalleled influence in the highest government levels in the United States?
Part 8: Religion in American Life: The 2004 Political Landscape

[Fr_Chuck]

I think the real trouble is that most Christians of the US are Christian in name only, what they say in polls but don't live a Christian life, practice most Christian principles.

[talaniman]

The only problem I have with those that espouse christian life is that they fail to acknowledge how wide and diverse the actions hope and fears of those that follow the doctrine, and like most religions they reject summarily the differences in their people. Those in power expect the sheep to go where he is led and that goes against the Creators purpose of giving all free will.

[Dark_crow]

I think the real trouble is that most Christians of the US are Christian in name only, what they say in polls but don't live a Christian life, practice most Christian principles.

Chuck

The answer to the question I asked deals more with how they vote, as opposed to how faithfully they follow Church doctrine.

They were not asking in the poll I referred to what their religious beliefs were, but rather specific questions:

Was prayer an important part of their daily lives:

Do you believe there will be a Judgment Day when people will be called before God to answer?
For their sins:

Do you ever doubt the existence of God?


As to your abortion comment:

“In 1987, Democrats were only slightly less likely to favor stricter abortion laws (40%) than were Republicans (48%). Today, Republicans are twice as likely as Democrats (50% to 25%) to favor stricter abortion regulation. And religion remains a major dividing line in views on this issue, with most white evangelical Protestants supporting laws that would make it more difficult for a woman to have an abortion, and most white mainline Protestants opposed to such changes. White Catholics, split evenly over this issue in 1987, are now more likely to oppose (56%) than favor (37%) stricter abortion laws.”

[excon]

do you believe that fundamentalist religion has an unparalleled influence in the highest government levels in the United States?

Hello again, DC:

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but our president, the leader of the free world, the most powerful dude on earth, is a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.

How much more influence did you have in mind?

excon

[Dark_crow]

The only problem I have with those that espouse christian life is that they fail to acknowledge how wide and diverse the actions hope and fears of those that follow the doctrine, and like most religions they reject summarily the differences in their people. Those in power expect the sheep to go where he is led and that goes against the Creators purpose of giving all free will.

What you say is completely off topic, but…anyway:

I’m not going to call it a problem for me, but I do find it interesting that out of roughly 87% of the population who claim to never doubt the existence of God only a small percent, the fundamentalist, attempt a logical argument to justify their religious beliefs for the existence of God, while the others (“religious moderation”) make no attempt at rational justification, they believe in God because this belief “gives their lives meaning.”

[Choux]

To answer just part of your question, Saudi Arabia has extreme influence with the Bush Administration partly through Prince Bandar who has been a Washington powerbroker for many years. Saudi Arabia is a hotbed of fundamentalism, Wahabi branch, of Islam and it is taught in schools. If you remember, the 911 bombers were Saudi Arabian as is Osama bin Laden. Bush discontinued SERIOUS searching for bin Laden a couple of years ago, and look how things are going in Pakistan and Afghanistan... really poorly.

Doesn't America import most of its oil from the middle east from SAUDI ARABIA?? :)

Bush is in the pocket of the Saudi Royal Family because of OIL. :)

Bush is not a moderate, he is an extremist, but he is appeasing Saudi Arabia, an Islamic fundamentalist state, for economic reasons.

[Choux]

I see that I am off your topic!!

Fundamentalist don't have power at the highest levels of government. The Fundamental Christians are just used by the Republican Party honchos to get elected, and the powerful throw them a bone occasionally meanwhile working their financial agendas. See how great they worked from 2000-2007? :) Everything else Bush has touched, in foreigh policy especially the three Wars, has been a failure.

Domestic policy? How do you like the immigration situation? The great giveaway on debit cards during the aftermath of Katrina, and the continued mess on the Mississippi Gulf Coast? How about the MASSIVE national debt and balance of payments out of control to China, etc. How about the teetering stock market... on and on...

[Dark_crow]

To answer just part of your question, Saudi Arabia has extreme influence with the Bush Administration partly thru Prince Bandar who has been a Washington powerbroker for many years. Saudi Arabia is a hotbed of fundamentalism, Wahabi branch, of Islam and it is taught in schools. If you remember, the 911 bombers were Saudi Arabian as is Osama bin Laden. Bush discontinued SERIOUS searching for bin Laden a couple of years ago, and look how things are going in Pakistan and Afghanistan...really poorly.

Doesn't America import most of its oil from the middle east from SAUDI ARABIA????:)

Bush is in the pocket of the Saudi Royal Family because of OIL. :)

Bush is not a moderate, he is an extremist, but he is appeasing Saudi Arabia, an Islamic fundamentalist state, for economic reasons.

Hi sweet cheeks, good to hear from you.

I can't say whether it is because you're a woman or because you're a liberal democrat but, whatever the case, your history has gaps; Bennie and his band would have liked to do a 9/11 on the Saudi family. And if the Saudi family could get their hands on him, or his band of marauders, they would be headless. Oil, hell yes Bush is interested in Saudi oil…you wouldn't be? The Saudi's would like do get rid of the Fundamentalist State Religion, but that is how they maintain their power (Just like Bush), but to suggest it has any bearing on Americas voters is plain wrong, and Congress exists because of that vote…so no, you're fishing in the wrong stream.

[Choux]

Hi darling, Good to see you.

You weren't talking about citizens, you were talking about the powers that are.
I wasn't talking about citizens, I was talking about Bush and his relationship with Saudi Arabia because of its ***oil***.

I'm a moderate, not a liberal. No ad hominem attacks please; specially when I win an argument. :) YOu are so above that NOW.

[Dark_crow]

Hi darling, Good to see you.

You weren't talking about citizens, you were talking about the powers that are.
I wasn't talking about citizens, I was talking about Bush and his relationship with Saudi Arabia because of its ***oil***.

I'm a moderate, not a liberal. No ad hominem attacks please; specially when I win an argument. :) YOu are so above that NOW.

Naw, Sweetie, not an ad hominem attack…just probing a bit.

You extended my question beyond its intended scope.

But thanks for the response anyway.


Yes, everyone a moderate these days... pity... I'm a flaming Trotskyist

[firmbeliever]

What you say is completely off topic, but…anyway:

I'm not going to call it a problem for me, but I do find it interesting that out of roughly 87% of the population who claim to never doubt the existence of God only a small percent, the fundamentalist, attempt a logical argument to justify their religious beliefs for the existence of God, while the others (“religious moderation”) make no attempt at rational justification, they believe in God because this belief “gives their lives meaning.”

The percentages you have quoted, is that only the Christian population or all citizens?

Thanks in advance!:)

[Dark_crow]

The percentages you have quoted, is that only the Christian population or all citizens?

Thanks in advance!:)

The percentages are from the ‘Pew Research center’; some are from all citizens, and others are not. Follow the link.

Part 8: Religion in American Life: The 2004 Political Landscape

[inthebox]

At present, do you believe that fundamentalist religion has an unparalleled influence in the highest government levels in the United States?

Does there exist appeasement of religious extremists of all faiths by moderates?

NO - not to the extent of other groups.


IF influence is measured by money here is some interesting information :
--

2006 Election Overview: Top Overall Donors


#3 is a pro choice organization 100% Democratic

#15 "trial lawyers" 96% Democratic

# 22 and 31 = teachers union 89-99% Democratic

most unions Democratic

The biggest corporation, Walmart #61 69% Republican

#33 Microsoft "on the fence"



The other point is that Christians are a diverse group and have diverse ideologies.
I'm not sure about Muslims, or Jews.
I personally do not think that either party can lay claim to them as a whole group.


Good question





Grace and Peace

[inthebox]

To answer just part of your question, Saudi Arabia has extreme influence with the Bush Administration partly thru Prince Bandar who has been a Washington powerbroker for many years. Saudi Arabia is a hotbed of fundamentalism, Wahabi branch, of Islam and it is taught in schools. If you remember, the 911 bombers were Saudi Arabian as is Osama bin Laden. Bush discontinued SERIOUS searching for bin Laden a couple of years ago, and look how things are going in Pakistan and Afghanistan...really poorly.

Doesn't America import most of its oil from the middle east from SAUDI ARABIA????:)

Bush is in the pocket of the Saudi Royal Family because of OIL. :)

Bush is not a moderate, he is an extremist, but he is appeasing Saudi Arabia, an Islamic fundamentalist state, for economic reasons.

Do you get your information from Michael Moore?
From:
Table 5.4 Petroleum Imports by Country of Origin, 1960-2006
1996 17.7% of oil imports from Saudi Arabia
2000 13.5% " " " " " "
2006 10.7% " " " " " "

From:
Osama bin Laden: Profile

" Following the first Gulf War, Al Qaeda shifted its focus to fighting the growing U.S. presence in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia, home to Islam’s most sacred shrines. Al Qaeda vociferously opposed the stationing of U.S. troops on what it considered the holiest of Islamic lands and waged an extended campaign of terrorism against the Saudi rulers, whom bin Laden deemed to be false Muslims. The ultimate goal of this campaign was to depose the Saudi royal family and install an Islamic regime on the Arabian peninsula. The Saudi regime subsequently deported bin Laden in 1992 and revoked his citizenship in 1994. "


Grace and Peace

[Dark_crow]

NO - not to the extent of other groups.


IF influence is measured by money here is some interesting information :
--

2006 Election Overview: Top Overall Donors


#3 is a pro choice organization 100% Democratic

#15 "trial lawyers" 96% Democratic

# 22 and 31 = teachers union 89-99% Democratic

most unions Democratic

The biggest corporation, Walmart #61 69% Republican

#33 Microsoft "on the fence"



The other point is that Christians are a diverse group and have diverse ideologies.
I'm not sure about Muslims, or Jews.
I personally do not think that either party can lay claim to them as a whole group.


Good question





Grace and Peace

Money talks that’s for sure! I think everyone’s influenced by money!

On the other hand, I don’t think for a moment all those contributions combined can buy a professed Atheist a chair in Congress!
:rolleyes:

[ETWolverine]

First: how do you define "religious fundamentalist"? I know how I define it, but I'm not sure how YOU would define it.

In the Jewish religion, the Chassidic community might be considered "fundamentalist" in that they stick to and emphasize the FUNDAMENTALS of Jewish law. It is said that the Jewish populatiopn in the USA has a great (undue?) deal of influence in American politics. But within the Jewish community, the Chassidic subsects are by far the minority of Judaism, and they generally eschew organizations like AIPAC and other political action committees. In fact, part of their "fundamentalism" is to avoid being involved in politics at all.

So... does this "fundamentalist sect" have a great deal of influence with the government? I certainly don't think so.

I could make similar arguments for Christian "fundamentalist" groups. Evangelicals are a small minority of Christians, and even if they possess a level of political power all out of proportion to their numbers, I would argue that their influence over government decision-making is relatively small.

So, my simple answer to your original question is "no". But again, it depends on what you mean by "fundamentalist". If you are taking "fundamentalist" to mean anyone who has a specific religious beliefe that they are willing to fight for in the political arena, then perhaps such "fundamentalists" do have a great deal of political influence.

Elliot

[Dark_crow]

First: how do you define "religious fundamentalist"? I know how I define it, but I'm not sure how YOU would define it.

In the Jewish religion, the Chassidic community might be considered "fundamentalist" in that they stick to and emphasize the FUNDAMENTALS of Jewish law. It is said that the Jewish populatiopn in the USA has a great (undue?) deal of influence in American politics. But within the Jewish community, the Chassidic subsects are by far the minority of Judaism, and they generally eschew organizations like AIPAC and other political action committees. In fact, part of their "fundamentalism" is to avoid being involved in politics at all.

So... does this "fundamentalist sect" have a great deal of influence with the government? I certainly don't think so.

I could make similar arguments for Christian "fundamentalist" groups. Evangelicals are a small minority of Christians, and even if they possess a level of political power all out of proportion to their numbers, I would argue that their influence over government decision-making is relatively small.

So, my simple answer to your original question is "no". But again, it depends on what you mean by "fundamentalist". If you are taking "fundamentalist" to mean anyone who has a specific religious beliefe that they are willing to fight for in the political arena, then perhaps such "fundamentalists" do have a great deal of political influence.

Elliot

I defined it in post #3- and gave my argument there. You don’t read much before you respond… huh! :mad: