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otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

In the bible it states that God created the world. So to me that says he created everything.

As far as saying specifically science, the answer is no. Since God created all things then that would lead me to believe that God is in charge of all things. Right? Even Science?

Now let me ask you, what if you're wrong? I respect your beliefs and religion, but what if? Because I am not convinced unless I can see it for myself, or it can be proven.

METERRE · Jul 22, 2007, 07:08 PM

I also didn't mean to sound as if it physically in words and directly states "God created science" or anything like that. I did mean that it does say he made the world perfect. Perfect as in everything works with each other. Everything is in harmony, such as the cycle of life. It works. Cycle after cycle, if not, everything would be a mess. And I agree with Jesushelper76, he gave us minds so we could understand his creations. States that he created us in his own image. He understands how he created the world, therefore he most probably thinks we should too. Just that we are very far from knowing this world as well as he does... because he's the Supreme Being and no one but him understands everything.
I hope that my attempt to "enlighten" you didn't confuse you more about my point.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by METERRE

I also didn't mean to sound as if it physically in words and directly states "God created science" or anything like that. I did mean that it does say he made the world perfect. Perfect as in everything works with each other. Everything is in harmony, such as the cycle of life. It works. Cycle after cycle, if not, everything would be a mess. And i agree with Jesushelper76, he gave us minds so we could understand his creations. States that he created us in his own image. He understands how he created the world, therefore he most probably thinks we should too. Just that we are very far from knowing this world as well as he does....because he's the Supreme Being and no one but him understands everything.
I hope that my attempt to "enlighten" you didn't confuse you more about my point.

In your theory God gave us a mind, but after a time, we learned and evolved to survive in a changing environment. Hence, the theory of evolution.

JoeCanada76 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:16 PM

What if you're wrong? I also do respect your beliefs. I have nothing to lose eighter way? Do I ? The thing with me is that I have always had a strong personal belief since I was young. Since I can remember. The belief has always been within me. I focus on the unseen. There is a lot of things in this world and others that are unseen but does not mean it does not exist. Like the example I gave before. Air, we can not see it but it is there. For me it has been proven time and time again. I am alive. I am living. Look at all the things that are around us. Oceans, Sun, Moon, stars, so many different life forms. I have always had my prayers answered. I have always had a connection to the unseen. I know I may be going on. I just want to show you and let you see where I am coming from. I have a family, we just created a son together. He is 10 months old now. These are all things that would not be possible without us having a creator.

Another thing I would like to point out that we are all creators. Where did we get this from? We are all creators. That would mean that we had to have a creator ourselves. Just like we are creators for others. We were created in Gods image. Like M said, we were given the mind to explore and create as well.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

What if you're wrong? I also do respect your beliefs. I have nothing to lose eighter way? Do I ? The thing with me is that I have always had a strong personal belief since I was young. Since I can remember. The belief has always been within me. I focus on the unseen. There is a lot of things in this world and others that are unseen but does not mean it does not exist. Like the example I gave before. Air, we can not see it but it is there. For me it has been proven time and time again. I am alive. I am living. Look at all the things that are around us. Oceans, Sun, Moon, stars, so many different life forms. I have always had my prayers answered. I have always had a connection to the unseen. I know I may be going on. I just want to show you and let you see where I am coming from. I have a family, we just created a son together. He is 10 months old now. These are all things that would not be possible without us having a creator.

Another thing I would like to point out that we are all creators. Where did we get this from? We are all creators. That would mean that we had to have a creator ourselves. Just like we are creators for others.

I will answer your question first. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. And I will me damned to Hell for all eternity for blasphemy. If I'm right, then nothing happens.

Growing up I was instilled with a strong sense of religion and church. But when I got to the age when I was old enough to understand what was going on, I began to question. No one could prove to me what I had been told most of my life was true. I have done the research, I have studied religion for countless years, but still can't find any hard physical proof. Like you, I do have a family, two boys, one 2 1/2, one three months. Like I have said before, everything that "God" has created I can explain with science.

JoeCanada76 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:25 PM

Science is not the creator? Science is explanations of creation seen through some people.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Science is not the creator? Science is explanations of creation seen through some people.

I never once said that science was the creator. I stated that I can explain the creation of the universe, and the creation of man, THROUGH science. The "creator" is no more than a series of events that happened at the right place, at the right time.

METERRE · Jul 22, 2007, 07:31 PM

God also gave us free will therefore also doubt. But also I should say satan uses his influence to inflict the doubt. I mean even Jesus doubted.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by METERRE

God also gave us free will therefore also doubt. But also i should say satan uses his influence to inflict the doubt. I mean even Jesus doubted.

I'm Atheist, this does not apply to me.

JoeCanada76 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:36 PM

God gave freewill to all people. That is included you otto. Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion but will have to continue it another time. I am getting sleepy. Lol

Take care of yourself.

Joe

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

God gave freewill to all people. That is included you otto. Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion but will have to continue it another time. I am getting sleepy. lol

Take care of yourself.

Joe

Have a good night :)

METERRE · Jul 22, 2007, 07:47 PM

By the way where in the world is the person who originally started this post?

The fact is that you have your beliefs and we have ours, and it sounds like you won't be letting go of yours soon, and we probably won't be letting go of ours. So it seems like this topic is a showdown but with no winner or looser.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by METERRE

By the way where in the world is the person who originally started this post?

The fact is that you have your beliefs and we have ours, and it sounds like you won't be letting go of yours soon, and we probably won't be letting go of ours. So it seems like this topic is a showdown but with no winner or looser.

Its an enlightening conversation. I enjoy it because I learn new things.

METERRE · Jul 22, 2007, 08:04 PM

I agree with you otto, you certainly are able to learn more with these topics. And by the way, you asked earlier... "What if you're wrong?" Here's one advantage we have. If in case, I don't mean to doubt, we could be wrong, then we don't have to worry about it because nothing will happen to us. On the other hand, if YOU'RE wrong, then I don't really want to imagine what might happen. I'm am so not trying to judge you though, in my belief, God will deal with you like he sees it best.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 08:10 PM

I would give you a good rating but it says to spread the reputation.

Great answer. With your response, lets just hope I'm right, because Hell would probably not be good to me. LOL :) Have a good night.

Otto

letmetellu · Jul 22, 2007, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Capuchin

This is fairly easy to show proof for. I don't see your argument here.

Starman, do you have any non-creationist sources that state that scientists are tending more towards creationism? Surely the sources that you have used are rather biased.
Yes many scientists believe in God, I have no argument with that. A belief in God can live happily alongside the scientific truth of evolution, and this is the view of most religious scientists.

I was not making an argument, only showing that a person needs faith. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am not positive, and just because it has done it for thousands of years does not mean it will tomorrow.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by letmetellu

I was not making an argument, only showing that a person needs faith. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am not positive, and just because it has done it for thousands of years does not mean it will tomorrow.

You do not need faith to know the sun is going to rise tomorrow. It is a scientific fact that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, unless something catastrophic happens in the next few hours, which I doubt will happen.

METERRE · Jul 22, 2007, 08:25 PM

But then in my belief God can terminate, make or destroy what and when he wants. So I have to say I'm split in this. Yes scientifically the sun WILL rise tomorrow, UNLESS something does happen which will not let it do so. So I know it will, but still have faith that it will. Does that make any sense?? :o

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by METERRE

But then in my belief God can terminate, make or destroy what and when he wants. So i have to say i'm split in this. Yes scientifically the sun WILL rise tommorrow, UNLESS something does happen which will not let it do so. So I know it will, but still have faith that it will. Does that make any sense????:o

It makes sense to me. I understand you are torn between religion and what you can prove, all I can really say is step back and look at the big picture. I am sure you will make the right choice for you. Have a good night. Its been fun talking to you. :)

METERRE · Jul 22, 2007, 08:38 PM

No, I am not doubting my belief in God and all I've said. If that's what you understood. Ok I guess not even I understood myself though. Anyway good night to you too.